Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[sheina]

I didn't stop in the middle. I included the whole thing and covered every part.

The context of Jesus teaching in Matthew 19 concerning the rich young ruler does not stop at verse 19...and yes, you did stop in the middle of that teaching. You covered only the part you wanted to cover...the repeating of the commandments, but you went no further.

The context of that teaching was the sinfulness of man's heart. The rich young ruler honestly believed he had kept all the commandments Jesus taught in verses 18-19 (which is where you stopped). But Jesus continued on and showed this rich young ruler that he only THOUGHT he kept the commandments, when he actually did not, as shown in verses 20-22 (which you did not quote). Therefore, you missed the entire point of Jesus teaching on the law.

 

[11822]

Why do you always stop quoting that portion of Scripture at verse 19? To understand the CONTEXT of what Jesus is teaching here you need to continue to verse 22.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The Lord Jesus Christ used the Law to prepare people’s hearts for salvation:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

He exposed the sinfulness of man’s heart by explaining the deeper meaning of the law, that sin is a matter of the heart and not merely of external actions.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

In Matthew 19:21, the Lord exposed the sinfulness of the heart of the rich young ruler by getting at the root of sin, which is self. The rich young ruler mistakenly thought that he had kept the law from his youth up (verse 20).

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

The Lord exposed his sin of covetousness and idolatry by requiring that he give up his wealth and comfort and security and follow Him. This was not to say that the rich young ruler could have been saved by doing this. The only “work” we can do for salvation is the “work” of believing on Jesus Christ,

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

but no man can be saved until he first admits his sinfulness and his need for the Savior.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

You're totally missing the truth of the Scripture. Jesus clearly teaches some of the 10 commandments and a law from leviticus. He also teaches that selling everything the young ruler owns would be perfection because the young ruler said he obeyed the Commandments and asked what else he could do. Paul teaches these same commandments together and supports the truth even more, not that it needs it. Paul sold all he had and so did the rest of the church. and paul teaches those same commandments Jesus did. Its very clear that Jesus was teaching commandments for life, its not a parable on the love of money. The lesson on love of money only comes because the young ruler wasn't happy with that part of Jesus teaching, its not the whole teaching. And if were, anyone that doesn't sell all they own will have to jump through the eye of a needle to get into heaven because Jesus taught us all to sell everything we own, not just the rich. I think its only a requirement for perfection and not salvation. Like i said if it were, a lot of us are in trouble. Thank goodness its only for perfection, all we have to do is obey those commandments which are love anyway, which we are also commanded to do.



16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

 

[11822]

And thankfully with God all things are possible for the rich mans sake. He's already going to heaven penniless because he didn't stored any treasure in heaven. Thankfully its possible for Him to still enter heaven at least.

 

[Dutch42]

If Jesus teaches the law, how does obeying it make Jesus sacrifice mean nothing? Thats only the case in self righteousness. If we know we're only righteous by faith, but also listen to the words of Jesus then it means "something". To the contrary, Faith without works is dead. If i listen to what Jesus teaches i'm a doer of His word and not Just a hearer of it. Jesus teaches from the law which means He teaches law. I fear the lord and respect

The interesting part is: The concept righteous by faith, is actually the Old Testament concept (see for example Hab 2:4) Faith means trust in the Lord.

I think the Apostle Paul.. (confirmed by Jacobus, and Peter), made a differency between the Jews (by births) and gentils against teaching the Law.

The interesting part is that even the Apostle Paul did make an animal sacrifice.

 

[sheina]

And thankfully with God all things are possible for the rich mans sake. He's already going to heaven penniless because he didn't stored any treasure in heaven. Thankfully its possible for Him to still enter heaven at least.

The rich young ruler rejected Christ....where does it say he will enter heaven?

BTW, EVERYONE goes to heaven penniless. Ever hear the phrase, "You can't take it with you"? Ever see a U-Haul following a hearse?

 

[11822]

The interesting part is: The concept righteous by faith, is actually the Old Testament concept (see for example Hab 2:4) Faith means trust in the Lord.

I think the Apostle Paul.. (confirmed by Jacobus, and Peter), made a differency between the Jews (by births) and gentils against teaching the Law.

The interesting part is that even the Apostle Paul did make an animal sacrifice.

Yes but Paul didn't teach Gentiles or Jews to give animal sacrifice. Im not familiar with every law but i do understand sacrifice to be a sin offering and Jesus fulfilled the sin offering by becoming the sin offering. Paul didn't teach Circumcision because it dates back to Abraham and is a sign of the old Covenant. But Paul did teach us to obey law from the 10 Cs. Not that the 10 Cs are special, but because they agree with what Jesus and Paul teach.

 

[Studious One]

The rich man did not go to heaven. He rejected Christ. Those who reject Christ will hear the words, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I never knew you."

Everyone who goes to heaven, gets there penniless.

 

[Studious One]

Yes but Paul didn't teach Gentiles or Jews to give animal sacrifice. Im not familiar with every law but i do understand sacrifice to be a sin offering and Jesus fulfilled the sin offering by becoming the sin offering. Paul didn't teach Circumcision because it dates back to Abraham and is a sign of the old Covenant. But Paul did teach us to obey law from the 10 Cs. Not that the 10 Cs are special, but because they agree with what Jesus and Paul teach.

Where did Paul tell us to obey the ten commandments? Scripture please?

 

[11822]

The rich young ruler rejected Christ....where does it say he will enter heaven?

BTW, EVERYONE goes to heaven penniless. Ever hear the phrase, "You can't take it with you"? Ever see a U-Haul following a hearse?

At the end the apostles asked "who can be saved"? and Jesus said with God its possible. How did he reject Christ when he didn't sell all that he owned? Have you sold everything you owned? Will only those who do enter heaven? How did He reject Christ? Why wouldn't Jesus tell someone the truth when they come to Him and ask what they can do to enter into life? Jesus wasn't talking to a pharisee that was trying to trap him. Jesus told Him the truth. If the answer to what he could do for life wasn't the commandments, then it must have been sell all that he owned. We know that doesn't bring salvation. Jesus puts Life/commandments together and perfection/sell all possessions together. The question was about salvation. Was Jesus just blowing the young ruler off and never answered him correctly? Does Jesus Joke about salvation?

 

[11822]

Where did Paul tell us to obey the ten commandments? Scripture please?

Ive posted it numerous times already. And i never said the 10 commandments, i said some of the 10 commandments. Paul and Jesus both teach the last 6 commandments.

 

[11822]

The rich man did not go to heaven. He rejected Christ. Those who reject Christ will hear the words, "Depart from me, ye that work iniquity. I never knew you."

Everyone who goes to heaven, gets there penniless.

Jesus teaches us to store riches in heaven and thats what i was referring to with the penniless comment.. It directly relates to Jesus teaching about the rich man we were talking about.

 

[Studious One]

Ive posted it numerous times already. And i never said the 10 commandments, i said some of the 10 commandments. Paul and Jesus both teach the last 6 commandments.

I have yet to find the verses where Paul said do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, etc..

 

[11822]

Its interesting because some think that Jesus was teaching about self righteousness and others saw a teaching about not having the love of money. Thats because none saw the teaching about the commandments. Some because they dont beilve they should. Others because they didn't think obeying them had to be a lesson. Because Jesus teaches the last 6 Cs, Says its lawful to good on sabbath and the first 3 are no brainers anyway.

 

[11822]

I have yet to find the verses where Paul said do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, etc..

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Ro 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Ro 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[JohnRabbit]

Just where is this?Did Jesus teach sin? No. He didn't teach law either. See the Sermon on the Mount.[/B]Where is this?[/B]Is this really teaching the 10 Cs or answering a question put to Him personally? Which commandment is Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself? I missed that one in my Bible.
Can I ask a dumb question? Why is it insisted that one teaches sin if they don't teach keeping the 10 Cs? We have a different covenant and don't follow a codified written law by rote. We have the leading of the Holy Spirit. Incidence isn't obedience. Does it make sense that God would lead us back towhat He delivered us from?

you keep believing that Jesus didn't teach keeping the ten commandments, and we'll keep reading matt 19:16-19, knowing that He did!

i guess you can't teach by example either!

maybe if you say it to yourself long enough, it might come true!

just don't get no clearer than that!


John 4:48(NKJV)
48Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe.”

 

[BloodyRachel]

Its interesting because some think that Jesus was teaching about self righteousness and others saw a teaching about not having the love of money. Thats because none saw the teaching about the commandments. Some because they dont beilve they should. Others because they didn't think obeying them had to be a lesson. Because Jesus teaches the last 6 Cs, Says its lawful to good on sabbath and the first 3 are no brainers anyway.

Doesn't it seem anti-Semitic to you to say that Judaism is a religion of works-righteousness? Oh, you haven't said it in so many words. But you think Judaism is characterized by it. This reminds me that Martin Luther believed Judaism was characterized by lying. He wrote a little pamphlet titled On the Jews and Their Lies. Martin Luther believed that Judaism was a religion of liars, even if he didn't say those words in that exact order, without addition or subtraction. That seems pretty anti-Semitic.

 

[JohnRabbit]

I have yet to find the verses where Paul said do not kill, do not steal, do not bear false witness, etc..

he didn't have to. they had the Law and the Prophets read to them every sabbath!

Acts 13:27(NKJV)
27For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him.

Acts 15:21(NKJV)
21For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

so that, paul could concentrate on the matters concerning the kingdom of God, knowing that they had the Law and the Prophets read to them every sabbath!

 

[JohnRabbit]

Its interesting because some think that Jesus was teaching about self righteousness and others saw a teaching about not having the love of money. Thats because none saw the teaching about the commandments. Some because they dont beilve they should. Others because they didn't think obeying them had to be a lesson. Because Jesus teaches the last 6 Cs, Says its lawful to good on sabbath and the first 3 are no brainers anyway.

the problem of matt 19:16-19 for some is that they are too willing to look at the scripture in "tunnel vision".

the fact that Jesus doesn't mention the sabbath, means we don't have to keep it is ridiculous.

if one would take time to really look at the exchange, maybe one would began to understand the verse in it's context.

first of all, Jesus is answering a question about salvation - eternal life.

that is a fact that can't be disputed!

here's the question from the young man:

Matthew 19:16(NKJV)
16Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

the man wanted to know what he must do to have eternal life.

Jesus answered the man's question. the answer Jesus gave was particular to who was asking.

obviously, the man had problems with his fellow man, and his riches was the big obstacle for him.

the rich man's problem was learning to love his neighbor as himself!

that's why Jesus named the commandments that He did and included "love thy neighbor as thyself" for emphasis!

 

[Brak]

Doesn't it seem anti-Semitic to you to say that Judaism is a religion of works-righteousness?

Maybe or maybe not, but it is correct. This is CHRISTIANforums, not jewishforums.

 

[visionary]

Maybe or maybe not, but it is correct. This is CHRISTIANforums, not jewishforums.

and what a life when christians reunite with its roots of faith through Yeshua, King of the Jews.