Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[sheina]

Many of those 603 are ceremonial laws for the OC and we are not Jews under the OC and we have no Jewish temple. So those laws are of no concern to us. Some laws are sacrificial laws and some require a death penalty which Christ fulfilled Himself so no need for those.

It's really amazing how you folks "pick and choose" which part of the law you think you don't apply to you and say they are "of no concern to us". God's requirements for keeping the law is absolute perfection and it is to be kept in it's entirety...not chopped up into what you think is "of no concern".

Jesus teaches some of the remaining laws. Thats all i know.

Either Jesus teaches ALL of the law...or NONE of the law. Scripture does not teach that Jesus teaches "some of the remaining laws". You desire to be "sanctified" by obeying the law....then you must obey ALL or you are guilty of breaking ALL.

 

[11822]

Just where is this?Did Jesus teach sin? No. He didn't teach law either. See the Sermon on the Mount.[/B]Where is this?[/B]Is this really teaching the 10 Cs or answering a question put to Him personally? Which commandment is Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself? I missed that one in my Bible.
Can I ask a dumb question? Why is it insisted that one teaches sin if they don't teach keeping the 10 Cs? We have a different covenant and don't follow a codified written law by rote. We have the leading of the Holy Spirit. Incidence isn't obedience. Does it make sense that God would lead us back towhat He delivered us from?

God works in mysterious ways bro.

Jesus was teaching from the 10Cs and Leviticus.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

And im not saying its sin not to teach the 10 Cs, im saying Jesus taught them so its not evil.

 

[11822]

It's really amazing how you folks "pick and choose" which part of the law you think you don't apply to you and say they are "of no concern to us". God's requirements for keeping the law is absolute perfection and it is to be kept in it's entirety...not chopped up into what you think is "of no concern".

Either Jesus teaches ALL of the law...or NONE of the law. Scripture does not teach that Jesus teaches "some of the remaining laws". You desire to be "sanctified" by obeying the law....then you must obey ALL or you are guilty of breaking ALL.

You people? Why the unnecessary label? Are we not the same body of Christ? And do you not also pick and choose? Jesus teaches from the law ya know. He teaches us what love is from the law.

 

[11822]

It's really amazing how you folks "pick and choose" which part of the law you think you don't apply to you and say they are "of no concern to us". God's requirements for keeping the law is absolute perfection and it is to be kept in it's entirety...not chopped up into what you think is "of no concern".

Either Jesus teaches ALL of the law...or NONE of the law. Scripture does not teach that Jesus teaches "some of the remaining laws". You desire to be "sanctified" by obeying the law....then you must obey ALL or you are guilty of breaking ALL.

I wish to be sanctified be obeying the law? And i must follow the whole law to be sanctified? Lets see what is said about sanctification in the N.T.


Furthermore then we beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please God, so ye would abound more and more. 2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus. 3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication: 4 That every one of you should know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honour; 5 Not in the lust of concupiscence, even as the Gentiles which know not God: 6 That no man go beyond and defraud his brother in any matter: because that the Lord is the avenger of all such, as we also have forewarned you and testified. 7 For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness. 8 He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.
9 But as touching brotherly love ye need not that I write unto you: for ye yourselves are taught of God to love one another

 

[11822]

Did you see that Sheinna? We should all know how to possess our vessel in sanctification by abstaining from fornication.

 

[from scratch]

God works in mysterious ways bro.

Jesus was teaching from the 10Cs and Leviticus.

Leviticus 19:18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

And im not saying its sin not to teach the 10 Cs, im saying Jesus taught them so its not evil.

I guess that one should make up their mind what they wish to say Jesus did. I see 2 statements that conflict above.

 

[sheina]

You people? Why the unnecessary label? Are we not the same body of Christ? And do you not also pick and choose? Jesus teaches from the law ya know. He teaches us what love is from the law.

I didn't say "you people"...I said "you folks", but that is here nor there. I'm not sure we all belong to the same body of Christ. No, I'm not picking and choosing which commandments are "of no concern"....

We live the Christian life because Christ lives in us and works in us.

The Old Testament law was only a shadow of Christ and of heavenly things. Now that the Lord Jesus Christ has come, we have the perfect pattern and substance. We don't look to the law, we look to Christ.

The eternal principles of morality which are reflected in the law of Moses are respected by the Christian. However, our rule in life is not the law of Moses but the life of Christ as revealed to us in the New Testament (Romans 13:14)

 

[11822]

I guess that one should make up their mind what they wish to say Jesus did. Where did Jesus say keep the commandments, especially the 4th? I see 2 statements that conflict above.

What conflict is that?

I already showed you a dozen times. You choose to misinterpret it. But i'll repost it.
Jesus teaches from the law. The fact that Jesus tells Him to also sell everything and follow Him doesn't change this because Christ tells us to do the same thing. The first Christians did just that.

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[11822]

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.




If you notice Jesus told him to obey those commandments if He wished to live, then the boy said: "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

What does He lack if he keeps these commandments? "Jesus answered him:If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."


Notice He gives commandments for life but tells him to be perfect and store up treasure in heaven that He should sell His possessions, not for life but perfection and for storing riches in heaven. The commandments and the selling of possesions go hand in hand, one doesnt require the other nor does one cancel the other out. Did Jesus lie when He said the boy should obey the commandments or was He being sarcastic? No, Jesus told Him the truth.

 

[11822]

I didn't say "you people"...I said "you folks", but that is here nor there. I'm not sure we all belong to the same body of Christ. No, I'm not picking and choosing which commandments are "of no concern"....

We live the Christian life because Christ lives in us and works in us.

The Old Testament law was only a shadow of Christ and of heavenly things. Now that the Lord Jesus Christ has come, we have the perfect pattern and substance. We don't look to the law, we look to Christ.

The eternal principles of morality which are reflected in the law of Moses are respected by the Christian. However, our rule in life is not the law of Moses but the life of Christ as revealed to us in the New Testament (Romans 13:14)

I believe in Jesus Christ and Hope in Him alone. Trust me, self righteousness is far removed from me. I know I belong to the lord Jesus and He calls me friend and brother and i serve Him and call Him master. I am a child of God because God has said so. Are we not sister and brother in Christ?


And when we look at Christ we also see His words which contain law, His law. Thats what im reading, not moses law.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? 21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. 22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? 26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.




If you notice Jesus told him to obey those commandments if He wished to live, then the boy said: "All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?"

What does He lack if he keeps these commandments? "Jesus answered him:If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me."


Notice He gives commandments for life but tells him to be perfect and store up treasure in heaven that He should sell His possessions, not for life but perfection and for storing riches in heaven. The commandments and the selling of possesions go hand in hand, one doesnt require the other nor does one cancel the other out. Did Jesus lie when He said the boy should obey the commandments or was He being sarcastic? No, Jesus told Him the truth.

And as I said before, at that time, when Jesus was still teaching and walking the earth, the new covenant was yet to be established. It was after His resurrection that the New Covenant began. On the cross He said It is finished. The Law was fulfilled. At this point in time, the Law has no more hold on us. We are now under Grace. There has been ample scripture proof given to show this. As I sid before, if you want to live by the Law, that is up to you. But by doing so you make Jesus' sacrifice mean nothing. If you cant accept this, then there is nothing more that can be said. I wish you luck in your endeavor to keep all the laws.

God bless

 

[from scratch]

You people? Why the unnecessary label? Are we not the same body of Christ? And do you not also pick and choose? Jesus teaches from the law ya know. He teaches us what love is from the law.

I wonder why the law pushers are so touchy and easily offended? They be always hollarin like stuck hogs or sumtin. Ias don't see de grace pushers hollarin. Wonder hows come?

 

[11822]

And as I said before, at that time, when Jesus was still teaching and walking the earth, the new covenant was yet to be established. It was after His resurrection that the New Covenant began. On the cross He said It is finished. The Law was fulfilled. At this point in time, the Law has no more hold on us. We are now under Grace. There has been ample scripture proof given to show this. As I sid before, if you want to live by the Law, that is up to you. But by doing so you make Jesus' sacrifice mean nothing. If you cant accept this, then there is nothing more that can be said. I wish you luck in your endeavor to keep all the laws.

God bless

Then why does Paul and the apostles teach the same law Jesus taught? Jesus told them to teach us everything He commanded them and paul did that.



Mathew 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.




Jesus teaching:

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.



Paul teaching

Romans 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. 8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[from scratch]

What conflict is that?

I already showed you a dozen times. You choose to misinterpret it. But i'll repost it.
Jesus teaches from the law. The fact that Jesus tells Him to also sell everything and follow Him doesn't change this because Christ tells us to do the same thing. The first Christians did just that.

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

I see and understand very well the highlighted to mean that Jesus is teaching from the law. That is very different than teaching obedience to the law. So my question is where does Jesus teach obedience to the law?

In the above Scripture citation Jesus isn't teaching obedience to the law. Jesus is answering a foolish question asked to trap Him.That foolish question is What good thing shall I do... The Psalms clearly states twice this is impossible in 14:3 and 53:3. Any Jew knew this very well. Now if you want we can go to the NT where we find references like Eph 2:8-9 that make it absolutley unmistakeble that there is nothing we can do. Ah but that is Paul. I ask is it the God inspired word of God? What makes Matthew or even Moses any more believable? I think it is that folks don't like Paul because he doesn't support what they believe. Indeed wouldn't it be wonderful if the law crowd didn't have to deal with Paul? Paul does talk about a thorn in the flesh - his flesh.

 

[from scratch]

I believe in Jesus Christ and Hope in Him alone. Trust me, self righteousness is far removed from me. I know I belong to the lord Jesus and He calls me friend and brother and i serve Him and call Him master. I am a child of God because God has said so. Are we not sister and brother in Christ?


And when we look at Christ we also see His words which contain law, His law. Thats what im reading, not moses law.

Then are you claiming the 10 Cs you cite so often as the laws of Jesus?

 

[11822]

I see and understand very well the highlighted to mean that Jesus is teaching from the law. That is very different than teaching obedience to the law. So my question is where does Jesus teach obedience to the law?

In the above Scripture citation Jesus isn't teaching obedience to the law. Jesus is answering a foolish question asked to trap Him.That foolish question is What good thing shall I do... The Psalms clearly states twice this is impossible in 14:3 and 53:3. Any Jew knew this very well. Now if you want we can go to the NT where we find references like Eph 2:8-9 that make it absolutley unmistakeble that there is nothing we can do. Ah but that is Paul. I ask is it the God inspired word of God? What makes Matthew or even Moses any more believable? I think it is that folks don't like Paul because he doesn't support what they believe. Indeed wouldn't it be wonderful if the law crowd didn't have to deal with Paul? Paul does talk about a thorn in the flesh - his flesh.

The obedience is up to you. All im showing is Jesus and Paul teach from the law and the law is in our hearts therefor there is a law with a purpose (not being salvation) which means its not dead. I happen to like Paul too.

 

[11822]

Then are you claiming the 10 Cs you cite so often as the laws of Jesus?

Jesus did teach them which makes them His. The Apostle Paul did also.

 

[sheina]

Jesus teaching:

Mathew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, 19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Why do you always stop quoting that portion of Scripture at verse 19? To understand the CONTEXT of what Jesus is teaching here you need to continue to verse 22.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The Lord Jesus Christ used the Law to prepare people’s hearts for salvation:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

He exposed the sinfulness of man’s heart by explaining the deeper meaning of the law, that sin is a matter of the heart and not merely of external actions.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

In Matthew 19:21, the Lord exposed the sinfulness of the heart of the rich young ruler by getting at the root of sin, which is self. The rich young ruler mistakenly thought that he had kept the law from his youth up (verse 20).

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

The Lord exposed his sin of covetousness and idolatry by requiring that he give up his wealth and comfort and security and follow Him. This was not to say that the rich young ruler could have been saved by doing this. The only “work” we can do for salvation is the “work” of believing on Jesus Christ,

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

but no man can be saved until he first admits his sinfulness and his need for the Savior.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

 

[11822]

And as I said before, at that time, when Jesus was still teaching and walking the earth, the new covenant was yet to be established. It was after His resurrection that the New Covenant began. On the cross He said It is finished. The Law was fulfilled. At this point in time, the Law has no more hold on us. We are now under Grace. There has been ample scripture proof given to show this. As I sid before, if you want to live by the Law, that is up to you. But by doing so you make Jesus' sacrifice mean nothing. If you cant accept this, then there is nothing more that can be said. I wish you luck in your endeavor to keep all the laws.

God bless

If Jesus teaches the law, how does obeying it make Jesus sacrifice mean nothing? Thats only the case in self righteousness. If we know we're only righteous by faith, but also listen to the words of Jesus then it means "something". To the contrary, Faith without works is dead. If i listen to what Jesus teaches i'm a doer of His word and not Just a hearer of it. Jesus teaches from the law which means He teaches law. I fear the lord and respect His law and rightly so, He didn't die so we could keep doing what brought condemnation. If we sin He will forgive us, what will He forgive if there is no law to bring sin? Jesus does teach law, maybe not the same as moses did but Christ has law. Its more than love thy neighbor. Just like the Jews could't see the law was for love, we cannot see that love is for the law.

 

[11822]

Why do you always stop quoting that portion of Scripture at verse 19? To understand the CONTEXT of what Jesus is teaching here you need to continue to verse 22.

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

The Lord Jesus Christ used the Law to prepare people’s hearts for salvation:

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

He exposed the sinfulness of man’s heart by explaining the deeper meaning of the law, that sin is a matter of the heart and not merely of external actions.

Matthew 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:

Matthew 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

In Matthew 19:21, the Lord exposed the sinfulness of the heart of the rich young ruler by getting at the root of sin, which is self. The rich young ruler mistakenly thought that he had kept the law from his youth up (verse 20).

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

The Lord exposed his sin of covetousness and idolatry by requiring that he give up his wealth and comfort and security and follow Him. This was not to say that the rich young ruler could have been saved by doing this. The only “work” we can do for salvation is the “work” of believing on Jesus Christ,

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

but no man can be saved until he first admits his sinfulness and his need for the Savior.

Luke 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.

I didn't stop in the middle. I included the whole thing and covered every part.