Purgatory, if it exists how long do you guys have to stay there?

[sheina]

No its not

Tell us, o wise one, what is the Bible's teaching on salvation that is not contrary to the Catholic teaching of Purgatory?

 

[AveMaria_45]

Tell us, o wise one, what is the Bible's teaching on salvation that is not contrary to the Catholic teaching of Purgatory?

In the Bible the wise people are the stupid ones. so i'm happy not to be a "smart" as you are old timer. lol

you want an answer? lets see if you are better at listening than these other people are. this is from the website where my study course is,

Newman Apologetics Resource

 

[Hentenza]

That is my problem with this line of thought. Heaven is not simply defined as "where God is or has access to." God's main place of residence, so to speak, is heaven. But if God is omnipresent, that doesn't mean everywhere is heaven. Satan does not need to have access to heaven to be able to speak with God.

But since satan is cast out of heaven in the future then satan accuses the brethren in heaven not somewhere else. The teaching is also in Job and in 2 Chronicles 18 (involving a lying spirit).

 

[sheina]

In the Bible the wise people are the stupid ones. so i'm happy not to be a "smart" as you are old timer. lol

you want an answer? lets see if you are better at listening than these other people are. this is from the website where my study course is,

Newman Apologetics Resource

How about what YOU believe about biblical salvation...not what some Catholic apologist believes and teaches.

 

[christianmomof3]

Purgatory, if it exists how long do you guys have to stay there?

It only exists for you and we have not yet decided how long we will leave you there.

 

[patience7]

But since satan is cast out of heaven in the future then satan accuses the brethren in heaven not somewhere else. The teaching is also in Job and in 2 Chronicles 18 (involving a lying spirit).

If Satan isn't cast out of heaven yet I just have a few questions:

Who tempted Eve? (Genesis 3)
Who tempted Jesus? (Matthew 4)
Who is our spiritual warfare against? (Eph. 6)
Who walks around as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour? (1 Peter 5)

Thanks. patience

 

[Hentenza]

If Satan isn't cast out of heaven yet I just have a few questions:

Who tempted Eve? (Genesis 3)
Who tempted Jesus? (Matthew 4)
Who is our spiritual warfare against? (Eph. 6)
Who walks around as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour? (1 Peter 5)

Thanks. patience

Answer to all 4 questions is satan.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

No bitterness, just concern about the salvation of people. Purgatory is a salvation thief.

So are you saying Catholics are not Christians?

Purgatory is contrary to the Bible's teaching about salvation.

So are you saying Catholics are not saved?

How about what YOU believe about biblical salvation...not what some Catholic apologist believes and teaches.

That is what she believes . belief is more profound that mere intellectual assent .

 

[patience7]

Answer to all 4 questions is satan.

Oh, ok. Is he working from heaven? I thought he had already fallen from heaven together with a third of the angels?

Isaiah 14:12a "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" (12-15).

 

[Hentenza]

Oh, ok. Is he working from heaven? I thought he had already fallen from heaven together with a third of the angels?

Isaiah 14:12a "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!" (12-15).

Well, satan is the prince of the world for now (John 14:30) and he did "fall" from heaven (Luke 10:18), however, he still has access to heaven (Job 1:6). The final battle in heaven depicted in Rev. 12 is waged by Michael the archangel and his angels against satan and his angels. At that time satan will finally loose access to heaven and will be cast down for the last time prior to his judgment.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, satan is the prince of the world for now (John 14:30) and he did "fall" from heaven (Luke 10:18), however, he still has access to heaven (Job 1:6). The final battle in heaven depicted in Rev. 12 is waged by Michael the archangel and his angels against satan and his angels. At that time satan will finally loose access to heaven and will be cast down for the last time prior to his judgment.

Job is over 3000 years old . it cannot speak to the spiritual reality today, a number of covenants have come and gone since then.

Revelation 12 is a figurative picture of the son of man Jesus Christ.

Satan is already down here .

 

[sheina]

So are you saying Catholics are not saved?

What I am saying is that Purgatory is contrary to the Bible's teaching about salvation. What part of that statement do you not understand?

That is what she believes . belief is more profound that mere intellectual assent .

Then she needs to explain in her own words, not yours, what she believes. I do not put my belief in what some Catholic (or whatever denomination) apologist says. By what standard does she base her belief..on what this Catholic apologist says or what the Bible says?

 

[Hentenza]

Job is over 3000 years old . it cannot speak to the spiritual reality today, a number of covenants have come and gone since then.

The teachings in Job apply today as they did 3000 years ago. Remember that God is timeless.

Revelation 12 is a figurative picture of the son of man Jesus Christ.

What makes Rev. 12 figurative?

Satan is already down here .

Sure, but he still has access to God.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What I am saying is that Purgatory is contrary to the Bible's teaching about salvation. What part of that statement do you not understand?

I understand it fully. Implied within you are saying anyone who believes in purgatory is not saved.

Then she needs to explain in her own words, not yours, what she believes. I do not put my belief in what some Catholic (or whatever denomination) apologist says. By what standard does she base her belief..on what this Catholic apologist says or what the Bible says?

I can imagine from reading your responses that you base your interpretation on the writings of dead theologians . since you do the same thing you are condemning her for . why should I stand by and watch such a great hypocrisy?

the bible says such things bring condemnation upon the individual, now we cannot have that, now can we?

 

[patience7]

Well, satan is the prince of the world for now (John 14:30) and he did "fall" from heaven (Luke 10:18), however, he still has access to heaven (Job 1:6). The final battle in heaven depicted in Rev. 12 is waged by Michael the archangel and his angels against satan and his angels. At that time satan will finally loose access to heaven and will be cast down for the last time prior to his judgment.

Thanks. I went and read the account in Revelation, but a lot of it is written in the past tense:

7-10) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I do think this section of has already happened. Anyway, I am way off topic here. SORRY!

By the way, I do not believe in purgatory! (to put this back on track!)

 

[Gregory Thompson]

The teachings in Job apply today as they did 3000 years ago. Remember that God is timeless.

This standpoint only proves Satan had access at one point . so i'll agree to disagree.

What makes Rev. 12 figurative?

Sure, but he still has access to God.

the woman with the twelve stars and sun and moon on her is Jacob's wife remember Joseph's Vision of the twelve stars sun and Moon and his father Israel's outraged interpretation of the vision.

this is also the fulfillment of the Daniel prophecy.

Also the "Man Child" or the "Son of Man" who rules the nations with an Iron Scepter is Jesus . When Jesus ascended to Heaven as the gospels say, the prince of this world was overthrown . Satan no longer has access . though he still may spew accusations from below.

 

[Hentenza]

Thanks. I went and read the account in Revelation, but a lot of it is written in the past tense:

7-10) And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

I do think this section of has already happened. Anyway, I am way off topic here. SORRY!

The whole account is narrated by John as a witness to the event. It is not in the past tense in the sense that it has already happened but that John has seen it.

It is not off topic since my premise is that since satan still has access to God and since satan and the fallen angels sinned in heaven then sin can enter heaven although only by God's command and for His glory.

By the way, I do not believe in purgatory! (to put this back on track!)

I don't either.

 

[Hentenza]

This standpoint only proves Satan had access at one point . so i'll agree to disagree.

Well, at what point did he loose it?

the woman with the twelve stars and sun and moon on her is Jacob's wife remember Joseph's Vision of the twelve stars sun and Moon and his father Israel's outraged interpretation of the vision.

this is also the fulfillment of the Daniel prophecy.

Sure, but fulfillment of prophesy is always literal not figurative.

Also the "Man Child" or the "Son of Man" who rules the nations with an Iron Scepter is Jesus . When Jesus ascended to Heaven as the gospels say, the prince of this world was overthrown .

Not yet. See John 14:30.

Satan no longer has access . though he still may spew accusations from below.

He will have access until Michael the archangel and his angels wage war in heaven against satan and his angels and defeats them. This is the realization of what already happened at Calvary.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Well, at what point did he loose it?

when Jesus was enthroned beside His Father.

Sure, but fulfillment of prophesy is always literal not figurative.

there is no always about prophecy . Isaiah 9, the Pharisees missed it because the bloodstained boot conqueror figure did not appear .

Some scripture was fulfilled "in their hearing" and Daniel . is a figurative prophecy . in seeing the same sequence of words it indicates the same event happening that was spoken of .

Not yet. See John 14:30.

that proves when Jesus spoke that . this sentence was in the present tense.

He will have access until Michael the archangel and his angels wage war in heaven against satan and his angels and defeats them. This is the realization of what already happened at Calvary.

this already happened . read colossians chapter 2 the powers and principalities that stood in the way of our salvation were spoiled on the cross . the law was nailed to the cross, sealing the devil's fate as the sting of death is sin, the power of sin is the law, and the power of the devil was death .

But now we live by the resurrection . I see no need to believe lies . the devil has been dethroned from the heavens . he's now grounded, the lion's wings have been "clipped" so to speak.

even today we see diagrams of this lion standing up with the heart of a man . except the prophets of this beast use a chimpanzee .

the signs all point to Jesus spoiling all these powers . already .

 

[Hentenza]

when Jesus was enthroned beside His Father.

I disagree.

there is no always about prophecy . Isaiah 9, the Pharisees missed it because the bloodstained boot conqueror figure did not appear .

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. Sorry. Your argument in your previous post regarded the fulfillment of the prophesy of Daniel. My comment related to prophesy being fulfilled literally not figuratively. The Pharisees missed quite a bit.

Some scripture was fulfilled "in their hearing" and Daniel . is a figurative prophecy . in seeing the same sequence of words it indicates the same event happening that was spoken of .

What part of Daniel is figurative?

that proves when Jesus spoke that . this sentence was in the present tense.

Is actually in the future active indicative.

this already happened . read colossians chapter 2 the powers and principalities that stood in the way of our salvation were spoiled on the cross . the law was nailed to the cross, sealing the devil's fate as the sting of death is sin, the power of sin is the law, and the power of the devil was death .

But now we live by the resurrection . I see no need to believe lies . the devil has been dethroned from the heavens . he's now grounded, the lion's wings have been "clipped" so to speak.

even today we see diagrams of this lion standing up with the heart of a man . except the prophets of this beast use a chimpanzee .

the signs all point to Jesus spoiling all these powers . already .

If what you say is true then there would not be any evil in the world, but there is. God uses this evil for His purposes which is why the devil still has access to Him but only as commanded by Him. Jesus already defeated the devil (John 12:31-32), however, until He draws all men to Himself (and that is in progress not yet completed) the devil will continue to be a tool of His will.