Purgatory, if it exists how long do you guys have to stay there?

[simonthezealot]

Purgatory, if it exists how long do you guys have to stay there?

 

[MrPolo]

"The transforming 'moment' of this encounter [Purgatory] cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of 'short' or 'long' duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The 'temporal measure' of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an 'existential time,' in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world."
Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231​

Historical references to "time" in Purgatory are akin to positional references to heaven being "above" or hell "below. They are all man's way of applying relatable terms to the mysterious and should not be absolutized as a scientific description of a theological concept.

 

[Sphinx777]

Secrets of Purgatory







​

 

[simonthezealot]

"The transforming 'moment' of this encounter [Purgatory] cannot be quantified by the measurements of earthly time. It is, indeed, not eternal but a transition, and yet trying to qualify it as of 'short' or 'long' duration on the basis of temporal measurements derived from physics would be naive and unproductive. The 'temporal measure' of this encounter lies in the unsoundable depths of existence, in a passing-over where we are burned ere we are transformed. To measure such Existenzzeit, such an 'existential time,' in terms of the time of this world would be to ignore the specificity of the human spirit in its simultaneous relationship with, and differentation from, the world."
Joseph Ratzinger, Eschatology: Death and Eternal Life, p. 230-231​

Historical references to "time" in Purgatory are akin to positional references to heaven being "above" or hell "below. They are all man's way of applying relatable terms to the mysterious and should not be absolutized as a scientific description of a theological concept.

Interesting, why then does the Sabbatine privilege offer a very specific 3 year Indulgence to the faithful who designated the order of the Carmelites?
HERE

 

[Optimax]

Thank God for the Blood of Jesus that cleanses from all sin.

 

[simonthezealot]

Thank God for the Blood of Jesus that cleanses from all sin.

Amen bro and and the only way of salvation is to be clothed in the seamless robe of Christ's perfect righteousness, which is mine only because of the perfection of His death.

 

[Optimax]

Amen bro and and the only way of salvation is to be clothed in the seamless robe of Christ's perfect righteousness, which is mine only because of the perfection of His death.

 

[awakened777]

I don't see anywhere in scripture where the idea of purgatory is supported. Christ paid for my sins, if purgatory were right I wouldn't need Christ because I would be paying for them myself wouldn't I?

 

[simonthezealot]

I don't see anywhere in scripture where the idea of purgatory is supported. Christ paid for my sins, if purgatory were right I wouldn't need Christ because I would be paying for them myself wouldn't I?

exactly, it denies the atoning nature of Christ work on the cross...

I wonder who a Catholic would say is the blessed man in Romans 4:8
"Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will never count against him."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Purgatory, if it exists how long do you guys have to stay there?

Oh goodie..another Purgatory thread
Subscribing

http://www.christianforums.com/t7456940/
Can we really rule out purgatory? (2)

http://www.christianforums.com/t5810978-101/

In light of some of the less noticed references
(Like baptism of the dead etc.)

Not necessarily called "purgatory" (not sure where
that name came from), but a purging, or refining
time?

What are your thoughts?

sunlover

 

[KeenanParkerII]

Luke 12:47-48 There are no stripes in heaven.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Peter 1:6-7

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Ancient Christians teachers who believed in purgatory and were connected to the Apostles: Abercius, St.perpetua, St.Felicitas, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, Lactantius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Basil, Ephraem, Epiphaneus, Gregory of Nyssa, St.Jerome, St.Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Augustine, Ceasar of Arles, Gregory the Great etc etc..

Read your Bibles guys.

 

[Optimax]

Luke 12:47-48 There are no stripes in heaven.

Phil. 2:10 - every knee bends to Jesus, in heaven, on earth, and "under the earth" which is the realm of the righteous dead, or purgatory.

Heb. 12:23 - the spirits of just men who died in godliness are "made" perfect. They do not necessarily arrive perfect. They are made perfect after their death. But those in heaven are already perfect, and those in hell can no longer be made perfect. These spirits are in purgatory.

1 Cor. 3:10-15 - works are judged after death and tested by fire. Some works are lost, but the person is still saved. Paul is referring to the state of purgation called purgatory. The venial sins (bad works) that were committed are burned up after death, but the person is still brought to salvation. This state after death cannot be heaven (no one with venial sins is present) or hell (there is no forgiveness and salvation).

1 Peter 1:6-7

Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).

Dan 12:10 - Daniel refers to this refining by saying many shall purify themselves, make themselves white and be refined.

Wis. 3:5-6 - the dead are disciplined and tested by fire to receive their heavenly reward. This is the fire of purgatory.

Ancient Christians teachers who believed in purgatory and were connected to the Apostles: Abercius, St.perpetua, St.Felicitas, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian, Lactantius, Cyril of Jerusalem, Basil, Ephraem, Epiphaneus, Gregory of Nyssa, St.Jerome, St.Ambrose, John Chrysostom, Augustine, Ceasar of Arles, Gregory the Great etc etc..

Read your Bibles guys.

Great idea!

Would you like to borrow mine?

 

[jckstraw72]

Purgatory doesnt deny the atoning work of Christ, because its not about atonement, its about .... purgation (imagine that)

 

[sunlover1]

Purgatory doesnt deny the atoning work of Christ, because its not about atonement, its about .... purgation (imagine that)

From what i can recall, isn't purgatory a place of purifying the ...soul??
(probably got that all wrong)
Does your denomination also believe in purgatory ?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*Luke 12:47-48 There are no stripes in heaven.

Read your Bibles guys.

I would hope not!

Luke 12:48 The one yet no knowing doing, yet worthy of blows/plhgwn <4127>, shall be being smitten few.....

Reve 15:1 And I perceived another sign in the heaven, great and marvelous.
Messengers, seven, having blows/stripes/plhgaV <4127>, seven, the last,
that in them is finished the fury of the God.

Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
Strong's Number G4127 matches the Greek &#960;&#955;&#951;&#947;&#8053; (pl&#275;g&#275;), which occurs 21 times in 20 verses in the Greek concordance of the KJV

4127. plege play-gay' from 4141; a stroke; by implication, a wound; figuratively, a calamity:--plague, stripe, wound(-ed).

 

[charsan2]

Purgatory doesnt deny the atoning work of Christ, because its not about atonement, its about .... purgation (imagine that)

It does amaze me the ignorance of some Christians on exactly what purgatory is

 

[Optimax]

It does amaze me the ignorance of some Christians on exactly what purgatory is

I agree! The very idea of such a thing. That is a lack of knowledge.

 

[jckstraw72]

From what i can recall, isn't purgatory a place of purifying the ...soul??
(probably got that all wrong)
Does your denomination also believe in purgatory ?

we do not believe in Purgatory, but we do believe in the necessity of purification for entering Heaven.

 

[charsan2]

I agree! The very idea of such a thing. That is a lack of knowledge.

No, the very idea that there is not a purging is the height of nonsense. The problem is protestants what a burger king type of Christianity

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

No, the very idea that there is not a purging is the height of nonsense. The problem is protestants what a burger king type of Christianity

I rather like Whataburger myself

Malachi 3:1 Behold Me! Sending Messenger of Me, and He paves way to faces of Me and suddenly the Lord shall come to temple of Him Whom ye ones seeking, and Messenger of the Covenant whom ye ones delighting.
Behold! He come says YHWH of hosts.
2 And who enduring day of to come of Him? And who the one standing into the to be seen of Him? That He as fire as one refining and as soap as one laundering.
[Reve 6:16]

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling upon us! and hide us! from Face of the One sitting upon the Throne, and from the wrath of the Lambkin
17 that came the day, the great, of the wrath of Him, and who is able to stand'.
[Hosea 10:8/Malachi 3:2/Luke 23:30]