any thoughts, ideas, comments, opinios, etc..

[BarryK]

clickhere, its called "White Horse"

ReverbNation Player

 

[lookingglass]

When Ireaneous speaks about his theism he is displaying how deeply these greek ideas have influenced his thinking. These ideas of Plato and Aristotle to name a few still continue to influence modern man. Ideas like fate and determinism . Is not wishing someone good luck such an example? Or Ke sera sera a universally accepted saying. "What ever will be will be the future is ours you see ke sera sera"!

 

[Ryan Collins]

When Ireaneous speaks about his theism he is displaying how deeply these greek ideas have influenced his thinking. These ideas of Plato and Aristotle to name a few still continue to influence modern man. Ideas like fate and determinism . Is not wishing someone good luck such an example? Or Ke sera sera a universally accepted saying. "What ever will be will be the future is ours you see ke sera sera"!

Plato and Aristotle influenced much of what mainline Christianity is today, not just modern man. Much of what evangelical Christianity believes concerning God is derived from the philosophies of Plato.

 

[lookingglass]

Are you generalizing or do you really believe that christianity has been totally influenced by Plato?

 

[Ryan Collins]

Are you generalizing or do you really believe that christianity has been totally influenced by Plato?

Mostly generalizing. But, I will wholeheartedly claim that Plato influenced the Christian characteristics and nature of God, or the attributes of God ( mainly immutability, impassibility, and timelessness).

 

[lookingglass]

Interesting! Are you an open theist?

 

[Ryan Collins]

Interesting! Are you an open theist?

HOW'D YOU KNOW?

 

[lookingglass]

Please feel free to open a discussion on the following or on something you are interested in.
How long have you been one?
Are you absolutely convinced by these ideas?
Have you any concerns about the open/ness of God's omniscience?
Which theologian has most influenced you concerning this theism?

 

[Ryan Collins]

Please feel free to open a discussion on the following or on something you are interested in.
How long have you been one?
Are you absolutely convinced by these ideas?
Have you any concerns about the open/ness of God's omniscience?
Which theologian has most influenced you concerning this theism?

You want me to start up a discussion based on these questions? I am more than willing to do so if you request my answers.

 

[lookingglass]

As an open theist do you regard the idea that what god knows say of future free will actions necessarily determines those actions?
In other words is it necessarily true that if God knows future free will actions that it necessarily follows that He would have to be the influence of such actions?

 

[Ryan Collins]

As an open theist do you regard the idea that what god knows say of future free will actions necessarily determines those actions?
In other words is it necessarily true that if God knows future free will actions that it necessarily follows that He would have to be the influence of such actions?

In open theist thinking, I believe that God knows some of the future exhaustively (i.e., Jesus' crucifixion) but some of the future is simply possibilities. I do not deny the omniscience of God whatsoever. I just affirm that God is all-knowing in all that can be known. And since the future is thus unknowable, God knows the possibilities of what free-will agents can choose from and is then all-knowing in the present and past and the future of possibilities. Of course, there are some instances where things are exhaustively settled in God's plan, like I said, Jesus' crucifixion. He foreknew that Jesus would be crucified and planned accordingly, but He did not foreknow WHO would crucify Jesus.

I think what you're speaking of is Arminianism. God's foreknowledge is based upon what humans will choose in the future. This however is not sound to me. I think this argument fails when looked in the light of Scripture where God is surprised or even dismayed according to choices that people make.

 

[Ed Bana]

No where does it say in God's Word man has a freewill towards salvation. On the contrary.. God's Word declares the total opposite.

 

[Ryan Collins]

No where does it say in God's Word man has a freewill towards salvation. On the contrary.. God's Word declares the total opposite.

Wrong.

 

[lookingglass]

How would you answer the following question?
When i think of God holding someone responsible for a moral offense I see portrayed in scripture accountability only when such action takes place and not before. Looking at moral offenses this way makes me wonder how god could know all future free will offenses before they take place. This being the case for open theism then my concern is with the following question.
How is it possible for God to die for the sins of the world before all these sins were committed? Unless of course he knows all future freewill moral offenses before they were committed.

 

[Ryan Collins]

How would you answer the following question?
When i think of God holding someone responsible for a moral offense I see portrayed in scripture accountability only when such action takes place and not before. Looking at moral offenses this way makes me wonder how god could know all future free will offenses before they take place. This being the case for open theism then my concern is with the following question.
How is it possible for God to die for the sins of the world before all these sins were committed? Unless of course he knows all future freewill moral offenses before they were committed.

Not quite sure I understand what you're asking. Can you phrase your question a different way? Are you essentially asking how Christ died for the sins of the world in the future if God does not know the sins of the future prior to them being committed?

 

[Ed Bana]

Again.. Chapter and verse.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

NO MAN….

Draw… Drag same thing it means force. Does anyone have a freewill when he is being dragged? I do not care what religious logic you believe in. Here is a chance for you to look at God’s Word with no preconceived idealism (the narrow way).

Wrong.

 

[Ryan Collins]

Again.. Chapter and verse.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw (Greek drag) him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

NO MAN….

Draw… Drag same thing it means force. Does anyone have a freewill when he is being dragged? I do not care what religious logic you believe in. Here is a chance for you to look at God’s Word with no preconceived idealism (the narrow way).

EDIT: I will choose not to have you read what I wrote; it was inappropriate. I will not engage in discussion with you until you refuse to prooftext and begin to look at Scripture contextually. Until then, God bless.

 

[lookingglass]

Yes that is exactly what I am asking. According to open theists future free will moral actions are unknowable to god. This allows future free will actions to be free from a beforehand influence of omniscience which would disallow any choice outside of what God believes he sees someone doing in the future. Because of this any future free will moral choices would be unknowable. For example , Did god know what Hitler would do beforehand? If I read open theists correctly they would answer, No! Not without being cupable for his actions. SEE-James 1:14-16
14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.>This process is necessary before accountablity is made. So, how can god reconcile the world to himself by dying for our future sins without actually knowing those future sins???

 

[Ed Bana]

Again in both of these threads you have not posted one verse to prove your point; but attack the verses I post with vagueness and bias.

Your bias has blinded your spiritual eyes. You refuse to debate me because you have been proven wrong.

EDIT: I will choose not to have you read what I wrote; it was inappropriate. I will not engage in discussion with you until you refuse to prooftext and begin to look at Scripture contextually. Until then, God bless.

 

[Ryan Collins]

Again in both of these threads you have not posted one verse to prove your point; but attack the verses I post with vagueness and bias.

Your bias has blinded your spiritual eyes. You refuse to debate me because you have been proven wrong.

I refuse to debate you because your hermeneutical ability is elementary at best. There is no point in debating someone who prooftexts. I could prooftext anything in the Bible to have it say anything I want. It's fairly simple.