Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

[solarwave]

Hi Solarwave,

Good afternoon. Wow!!! Is this day a blessing or what? God is so good!

Its good to see you have joy in God

I'm sorry to have not responded in an appropriate manner, but I thought that surely you would understand. I'm confident that anyone reading our respective posts would be hard pressed, if not impossibly constrained to see that we agree.

We agree? It seems much of the last few posts have been us disagreeing? Maybe I am wrong.

However, I read over your post and I can 'see' your faith. I can also understand through your posts that you aren't willing to take any of my recommendation to go to the Lord in sincere humility and prayer and ask Him to show you the truth, and yes, I understand that you think you have it already. Remember, friend, I stated several posts ago that there was a time in my life that I would have written responses just exactly like yours. But, sadly, until one gains the 'sight' that Jesus spoke of to those who are born again, we don't know our blindness. I didn't! For years my faith was almost exactly like yours. It was a faith based on my own wisdom and my own will. It was a faith that was not willing to bow in humility and say to the Lord God, my Creator, "Father, today, I believe that every word that you have revealed to me through your Spirit's work with the prophets and people of Israel is absolutely true. I admit that there is a lot that I just don't understand, and that there is a lot that doesn't seem logical to my small, inconsequential mind. But starting today, I ask you for a burning, unquenchable thirst to know you through your word." If you really are a praying man, and surely a brother encouraging another brother to pray can't be seen as hostile, I'd ask you to pray that prayer for the next 7 days. Take your bible in your hand and kneel before a chair and in the greatest humility you can muster pray for the unquenchable thirst to know God through His word for the next 7 days.

Sorry I don't think I will an understandable reply if I pray about this issue. I know it is arrogant to think I know the truth, and I know I have much to learn. Maybe you are right and I hope I come to know that in thr future if you are.

You see, my friend, you don't yet 'see' the plan, and until you 'see' the plan you can't understand what God has done.

I read your messages, quite long, but I have to say I agree with most of what you said. Maybe not how literal you take some things, but the general points I agree with and 2 years ago I would have agreed completely.

I particularly agree that when Jesus died had to be the time when He did and that the OT was leading up to Jesus.

I hope you don't mind me answering your messages here, I don't really have much to say though about them.

You have accepted the small revelation that God, or someone, sent Jesus, or someone to die for your sin and that as long as you verbalize agreement to that, you will be called a 'child of God'. It's exactly what I used to believe, but I can only tell you, and I suspect you won't believe me, that it all changes when you receive the gift of 'sight' that comes through the Holy Spirit.

What do you believe then, because I don't believe verbalized agreement to certain doctrines save.

Do you believe people who die non-christians can possibly go to heaven?

God bless you and be in prayer. I can attest that just as happened in my life, you too, can receive 'sight'. You can be the man who cried out to our Savior, "Lord, help me in my unbelief."
In Christ, Ted.

I hope one day I can know the fullness of God.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Hi miamited,

I don't believe Adam was a real person like said in the Bible and that the genealogies are wrong (I wouldn't use the word lie, because a lie is an intentional twisting of the truth) as I think I am correct in thinking that some genealogies in the Bible differ anyway.

So you reject the entire Genesis account, then, about even who you are, because you are the seed of -the fruit of- the son of- the first created human being, named Adam.
By your rejection of the Genesis account of who Adam is, there is no basis whatsoever for belief in the second creation human being, whom we call Salvation =Jesus, but as to the name of Him as to the second Man race, the Father calls Him Israel [Isaiah 49]; for He is the Christ, come in that human being body of second Man creation, prepared new for Him to don, in the womb of the virgin, so as to be Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam race.
If there is no Adam, then we need no redemption. Since there is no Adam, in your mind, then you need no Redeemer.
By rejecting the Creation account of Adam, the first man, then you have no foundation for belief in Jesus as the Christ come in flesh as second Man, and as Redeemer/Kinsman/Ga'al to the Adam race.

By rejecting the creation of the Adam, you reject your own human being name that the Creator calls our race; and by rejecting the creation of Adam, your own forefather, then you reject the Redeemer/Kinsman for the Race of Adam -your race.
.

All through the OT, Adam is the name of our entire race of human beings. The English AV translates the Hebrew word Adam as the English man four hundred and eight times: men 121 times, and Adam only 13 times.
When God speaks of our race whom He made male and female in the beginning, He calls us "Adam", the name He gave us.
Genesis 5:2: male and female made He them and called their name Adam;

 

[solarwave]

So you reject the entire Genesis account, then, about even who you are, because you are the seed of -the fruit of- the son of- the first created human being, named Adam.
By your rejection of the Genesis account of who Adam is, there is no basis whatsoever for belief in the second creation human being, whom we call Salvation =Jesus, but as to the name of Him as to the second Man race, the Father calls Him Israel [Isaiah 49]; for He is the Christ, come in that human being body of second Man creation, prepared new for Him to don, in the womb of the virgin, so as to be Kinsman/Redeemer to the Adam race.
If there is no Adam, then we need no redemption. Since there is no Adam, in your mind, then you need no Redeemer.
By rejecting the Creation account of Adam, the first man, then you have no foundation for belief in Jesus as the Christ come in flesh as second Man, and as Redeemer/Kinsman/Ga'al to the Adam race.

By rejecting the creation of the Adam, you reject your own human being name that the Creator calls our race; and by rejecting the creation of Adam, your own forefather, then you reject the Redeemer/Kinsman for the Race of Adam -your race.
.

All through the OT, Adam is the name of our entire race of human beings. The English AV translates the Hebrew word Adam as the English man four hundred and eight times: men 121 times, and Adam only 13 times.
When God speaks of our race whom He made male and female in the beginning, He calls us "Adam", the name He gave us.
Genesis 5:2: male and female made He them and called their name Adam;

I have to disagree with all of this. If Adam did or didn't live we still sin and need liberation from sin. The fact of Jesus' resurrection doesn't require belief in Adam because the resurrection happened reguardless.

What do you mean if there were no Adam then we need no redemption?

 

[miamited]

Good morning Solarwave,

I'm waiting on my son to be off to school for the day. This is his final year in high school and then it's off to find a college. He's looking into computer sciences or engineering. I've raised him the way I believe that God instructs us to raise our children and, while I surely can't speak for all parents, I can tell you that it has sure made a difference in who he is. We talk often of the things of God and I praise God that He has kept His promise.

We've had the 'talk' several times regarding evolution/creation and he's got a good head on his shoulders. He's earned straight A's in school since he was in elementary. He's bright, learned, has many friends, but for himself, he is a faithful YEC like his dad. He also 'sees' the power of God and understands that the God he and I serve has the power, glory and majesty to create all that surrounds us from one end of the universe to another in a moment.

You wrote:

Its good to see you have joy in God.

Ohh, my friend, I don't think you really grasp the depth of my joy. I wish that you could, My hope for everyone is that they would have the joy and peace of knowing that the Creator of all things cares more about their small, individual soul, than about anything else in all of His creation. That the God who spoke all things into existence 6,000 years ago in an effort to create men that would love and honor Him would not only be with them and love them now, but for all eternity to come. What joy there is in that knowledge and comfort in that peace.

My wife gets on me all the time because I'm not one to get regular check ups and be too concerned about my health. When she gets on me I assure her that God has written down the days of my life and I will get everyone that He has planned for me and I don't want a single extra. My 'sight' is set every day on that great day when all of us who have loved Him will live with Him and He will be our God forever. No more tears, no more pain, no more suffering because of the curse of sin. Just pure, eternal, everlasting life with Him.

I've already sat down with my physician, who I did go and see about 4 years ago just because he was new. I had left Miami, Fl and moved to this little place in South Carolina and we sat and talked for a bit and I told him that if for any reason he ever got called to the hospital and my heart stopped or I 'coded' I think they call it, to just turn around and walk away. Don't pull out the paddles and jelly them up and start trying to resuscitate my heart. If God wants to give me another day, He'll see to it that my heart continues to work. You see, friend, I'm ready. I have understood the plan of God and I have given my life to Him and I'm ready to accept whatever it is that He has in store for me because I have peace with God.

Paul writes in this same way, and thankfully Paul lived in a day where there wasn't much, medically, that anyone could do to keep someone alive when God was calling them home.

Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. So we make it our goal to please him, whether we are at home in the body or away from it. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men. What we are is plain to God, and I hope it is also plain to your conscience. We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to take pride in us, so that you can answer those who take pride in what is seen rather than in what is in the heart. If we are out of our mind, it is for the sake of God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again. So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord. Friend, that is exactly my feeling. I would prefer to be with the Lord and I don't want anyone who thinks he can fix my body and give me more days in this life of pain, struggle and turmoil to thwart what God has planned for me. My hope, my life, my days are in the hands of my God. And for all of those who would say, "Well, maybe God sent the doctor as His way of giving you more days." Hogwash, the God I serve doesn't need to use the hand of any man to give me life. I believe that that is exactly what the Scriptures portray for those who trust in God. Look at Hannaniah, Azerria and Mishael. They were going to be thrown into a fiery furnace to be literally and instantly burned to death. Yet they proclaimed to the king that the God they served was surely able to deliver them, and He did! They had real faith! They believed that God's will would prevail in their life in spite of the will of man.

You responded:

Sorry I don't think I will an understandable reply if I pray about this issue. I know it is arrogant to think I know the truth, and I know I have much to learn. Maybe you are right and I hope I come to know that in thr future if you are.

What, you are truly unwilling to go before God and plead with Him to give you an unquenchable thirst to know Him? As I said, friend, I can 'see' your faith. Anyone who would rebuke a brother who is only requesting that they take an issue of faith and belief about God, before God has a suspect faith. I'm not asking you to change your mind. I'm only asking you to go in humility before God and ask Him to give you an unquenchable fire to know Him. Do you think Billy Graham hasn't asked for just such a fire? Do you believe that Charles Spurgeon hasn't asked for just such a fire?

Finally, you asked:

Do you believe people who die non-christians can possibly go to heaven?
I believe this:

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

"Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, for everyone born of God overcomes the world. This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

It is a wise man who trusts in the Lord! Who fears Him who has the power to not only take your earthly life, but to then cast your soul into hell.

Pray, my friend, pray hard, pray diligently. Pray! Your Father delights in answering the prayer offered in faith and obedience.

God bless you and I look forward to speaking with you more. The heart of man is only tender towards God for a while. The wisdom of the world will turn it to stone, because this world is the kingdom of the evil one.

In Christ, Ted.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I have to disagree with all of this. If Adam did or didn't live we still sin and need liberation from sin. The fact of Jesus' resurrection doesn't require belief in Adam because the resurrection happened reguardless.

What do you mean if there were no Adam then we need no redemption?

There is no sin if there is no head of the race -the first Adam-who lost the place in Eden and got cast down [naphal -Psalm 82, in Hebrew explains the death/muwth and casting down/nephal of the first/echad prince/sar, Adam], and out of Eden, to the earth from which his flesh was formed.
If we are not the seed of the first Adam creation, then we are not dead in spirit, nor dying in our futile, vain, mortality, nor will we die the second death of separation from the LORD of Glory and His Spirit indwelling us forever.
If there was no Adam creation, then there was no glory to be lost, no Eden to be down cast out of, no Tree of Life to eat of, and nothing to be redeemed back for, in the name of the New Man, by His Atonement, as Kinsman, for our redemption.

There is no Second Adam if there is no first Adam.
There is nothing to be "redeemed for, if nothing is lost.
Our existence is vain, futile, and of nothing for nothing, if there was no first Adam whose seed we are.

 

[solarwave]

There is no sin if there is no head of the race -the first Adam-who lost the place in Eden and got cast down [naphal -Psalm 82, in Hebrew explains the death/muwth and casting down/nephal of the first/echad prince/sar, Adam], and out of Eden, to the earth from which his flesh was formed.
If we are not the seed of the first Adam creation, then we are not dead in spirit, nor dying in our futile, vain, mortality, nor will we die the second death of separation from the LORD of Glory and His Spirit indwelling us forever.
If there was no Adam creation, then there was no glory to be lost, no Eden to be down cast out of, no Tree of Life to eat of, and nothing to be redeemed back for, in the name of the New Man, by His Atonement, as Kinsman, for our redemption.

There is no Second Adam if there is no first Adam.
There is nothing to be "redeemed for, if nothing is lost.
Our existence is vain, futile, and of nothing for nothing, if there was no first Adam whose seed we are.

I am sorry but you are living in myth not the meaning of the myth. If there is no Adam can you not see how the meaning behind the story could be applied? Even then I don't think some of what you say is correct even if I suppose Adam was real.

There is no sin if there is no Adam? So I should consider myself perfect? Isn't sin doing what is wrong or rejecting God and isn't this possible without Adam? If I reject Adam yet believe God is good and that I don't live up to His goodness then have I not sinned?

To the next thing you say, of course we can be dead in spirit without Adam and if one has rejected God. If we have not salvation then we are dead in spirit. If we sin and are not reconciled by Christ we are dead and are dying in out mortal lives too because we are made of destructible flesh.

If there is no Adam can't I still think that God has an ideal in mind and that we fall short of that ideal and lose what we should be, and that is our fall from grace. We need to be redeemed to the life in God we should have.

As for Jesus, we sin and need a saviour even if there is no Adam because we are far from God because we each individually fall from grace.

 

[solarwave]

Hi Miamited

Im sorry but I can't possibly reply to everything you write when your posts are that long, but I will do my best to.

Im glad to hear that your son is still stong in God, and that is more important than what type of creationism he holds on to.

As for the joy of God I have recently come to an understanding of God where I see the amazing potential love, hope and faith in God. I do have to say this is an understanding at the moment but I hope that when the time is right I can live in the fullness of Gods hope.

The word joy, hope, faith, grace and most definitely love have taken on a whole new level in my mind of what the Christian life can be and sadly how much too low most Christians aim and how little of the true potential of life in Christ is realised (myself included). For example I believe now that the love of God is a consuming fire of that reassures us that goodness will win out and that love is the foundation of reality because God is love and that this love can be mirrored in amazing ways in human life.

Also I percieve grace to be a ocean above our heads, so wide spread and powerful are its effects. Hope and so joy can be perfected in bring the Kingdom of Heaven/God into our hearts and since there is joy in heaven, why not in this earthly life when the Kingdom of God is expressed in the body of Christ.

I could go on, but I just wanted to let you know what I believe is not only concerned with the area of hard facts and logical...... I don't know if I came across like that at all. I will take what you have to say into account.

So your answer to the question is that salvation is only possible for those who have heard of Jesus? It might not be good to start a debate about this though.

Solarwave

 

[yeshuasavedme]

There is no sin if there is no Adam? So I should consider myself perfect?

Since you do not consider the truth of who you are, nor why you were made, nor when you were created, and for what purpose, and why you need a Savior as the Word of God states, then you can consider yourself anything whatsoever you choose, since you are the supreme one in your mythology.
Having rejected the Truth of the creation of our kind, and the fall of our race in the firstborn, from being sons of God and cast down from Eden, and out of fellowship with the Father of glory since the fall, then there is nothing to be saved from, or for, in your mythology.

As for Jesus, we sin and need a saviour even if there is no Adam because we are far from God because we each individually fall from grace.

What grace do we fall from, in your myth of rejection of the Word of God? Our lives are exactly what evolution made them, and our purpose has no meaning at all, in your own myth.

 

[solarwave]

Since you do not consider the truth of who you are, nor why you were made, nor when you were created, and for what purpose, and why you need a Savior as the Word of God states, then you can consider yourself anything whatsoever you choose, since you are the supreme one in your mythology.
Having rejected the Truth of the creation of our kind, and the fall of our race in the firstborn, from being sons of God and cast down from Eden, and out of fellowship with the Father of glory since the fall, then there is nothing to be saved from, or for, in your mythology.

But I don't consider that the truth so you can't guilt trip me into agreeing with you. The truth of who I am..... made in the image of God, why I was made..... to live a fulfilling life in relation to God.

Why I need a Savior..... because I have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God and because I will die and the only hope I can have is the grace of God.

I assume you believe in hell? Is that not something to be saved from. Saved from a life of shallow living, from the pointlessness and pain of a worldly life. Saved from death into eternal life with God as adopted sons and daughters.

What grace do we fall from, in your myth of rejection of the Word of God? Our lives are exactly what evolution made them, and our purpose has no meaning at all, in your own myth.

The grace of the fullness of God that we should be living in if we followed God.

 

[miamited]

Good morning Solarwave,

BTW where in the UK do you live? I once shared with a young person there and was able to look at the very street they lived on through the use of googlearth. Ain't computers great!

You responded, and let me say that I'm truly sorry that my posts are so long winded, but things such as godly instruction don't always lend themselves to short little quotes. Just like learning any major field of study, it takes some explaining and a lot of understanding. Anyway, you responded:

Im glad to hear that your son is still stong in God, and that is more important than what type of creationism he holds on to.

Actually, I'm not convinced that that's a completely true statement. A lot depends on how one defines faith. In the Revelation it speaks thusly:

"At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."

What could be meant as the 'testimony of Jesus'? Wouldn't that be all that he told us? In other words, as I believe the Scriptures portray my Savior, the very purpose for his coming was twofold. 1: To tell us the truth about God and everything pertaining to God. It is no longer through the prophets, Paul said, that God speaks to us, but it is through the testimony of His one and only Son. 2: To pay the price for out sin, so that, once we do believe the testimony of God's Son, we can then receive the gift of eternal life.

Mark's gospel accounts for us these words of Jesus:

"But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female."

At the beginning of creation. Not 'sometime thereafter' or 'eventually', but at the beginning of creation. Now, I ask you, what is Jesus' testimony regarding the beginning of creation?

Here's another of Jesus' testimony:

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away.

Now, as I understand the Scriptures, these weren't quotes that people said about Jesus, but rather these are recorded as the very words that Jesus himself spoke to his followers and disciples as he gave true testimony of what he knew. This is not like you and I where we can argue over, "Well, that's what you believe, but it's not what I believe." This is Jesus speaking. He 'knew' all these things. Do you really believe that God, wants to trick you somehow? That He has allowed men to pervert His word? Friend, more scholarly men, than you or I will ever know, have been involvd in the translation and study of God's word. We have verifiable 'proof' that what we hold today as the Old Testament is exactly the same Old Testament believed and written by the Jews and followed in Jesus' day. Do you honestly believe in your heart that God's word has been perverted even to the issue of the very words that Jesus spoke. Didn't Jesus promise his disciples that the Holy Spirit would bring to their remembrance that things that he had done and said among them? Did he lie to them?

So that this won't be as long as others I will post this and then respond to other issues you have written. BTW have you humbled yourself to ask God to give you a burning, unquenchable thirst for the knowledge of Him through His word?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[miamited]

Good morning Solarwave,

You wrote:

For example I believe now that the love of God is a consuming fire of that reassures us that goodness will win out and that love is the foundation of reality because God is love and that this love can be mirrored in amazing ways in human life.

Not in this world, right?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[miamited]

Good morning Solarwave,

So your answer to the question is that salvation is only possible for those who have heard of Jesus? It might not be good to start a debate about this though.

That's correct, and, of course those who can keep the law.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

But I don't consider that the truth so you can't guilt trip me into agreeing with you. The truth of who I am..... made in the image of God, why I was made..... to live a fulfilling life in relation to God.

Thank you for replying.
Believe me, I am not trying to guilt trip you into anything. I do not believe in such nonsense. I believe that reasoning of men is fruitless in converting men, but the power of God, demonstrated in fulfillment of His Word and promises, is the foundation men of faith stand on. -1 Corinthians, chapter 2.

How can you be made in the image of God, since you deny that Adam is real? It is Adam who is made in the image of God, and you claim that you are not an Adam, by rejecting your firstborn and father -from whose loins you have come forth in the Adam race; having been ordained from the beginning to come forth, by being written in the Book of Life, in which all the Adam persons/souls were written, and in which every member of their body and the boundaries of their days was determined, before the foundation of the world, as the Word of God teaches.

But for the others, who believe the Word of God:
Adam is made male and female, of one and only one spirit, flesh, bone and blood; Genesis 5:2; Malachi 2:15; Acts 17:26

In the express image -the very "tupos"-of God the Word, who was to come [and is come]: Romans 5:14, John 1:1, and 14

One spirit; Malachi 2:15

One flesh, one bone, one blood; Genesis 2:23, Genesis 29:14, Acts 17;26,
As created, human being sons of God, with the created seed in the Adam-head -the firstborn- of all who would come forth [come to fruit], by multiplying the persons/souls in the one, created, Adam being; in the pre-ordained season of their coming into their Adam being -being the multiplied seed, come to fruit; as written in the Book of Life about them], and nurtured to ripeness of the fruit in the womb of the female /ishyah Adam; Genesis 3:20, Luke 3:38, Malachi 2:15

I will also address your other points, from Scripture, in subsequent posts.

Gen 1:27 So God created Adam in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

Gen 5:1 -the generations of Adam
Gen 6:1
And it came to pass, when Adam began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,Genesis 6:5 -the wickedness of Adam was great in the earth

Gen 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of Adam.

Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth Adam's blood, by Adam shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he Adam

We are all male or female persons/souls, =seed come to fruit- "in Adam"
Eze 27:13 Javan, Tubal, and Meshech, they [were] thy merchants: they traded the persons/souls/nephesh of Adam and vessels of brass in thy market.

 

[miamited]

Good evening Solarwave,

You know, you earlier mentioned that some of your thought and belief regarding either creationism or theistic evolution was not fully formed. In other words, there still seemed to be a lot of questions to be answered regarding both issues. Might I suggest a book to you that might give you some insight from a purely intelligent point of view? I mean, I'm not a very learned man as regards degrees or university study. I don't hold any PHD's or even BA's in any of the fields that we are discussing. My faith is just a faith that has grown from, I believe, sincere study of God's word. However, the book I'm mentioning here was written by a man who holds a doctorate from Johns Hopkins University in Zoology with an emphasis on Genetics. His name is Boton Davidheiser and he went to be with the Lord in 2007, but he left for us some well thought out and supported evidence that refutes much of the theistic creationists along with evolutionists at large.

I don't have enough 'credits' to post a link, so you'll need to bear with me and do a google search for 'bolton davidheiser hugh ross statement'


You'll find, as an indication of some of his work, a paper he wrote concerning the teachings of a 'Christian' teacher by the name of Dr. Hugh Ross. You'll also find about 4 links down from the 'statement' link a link to an obituary for Bolton that you might consider reading.

The book that I am recommending for your reading is titled, Evolution and Christian Faith, by Bolton Davidheiser. I don't think it's in print any longer so you might have to locate a used copy. I found several on Amazon.com.

God bless you and I look forward to future discussion.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[miamited]

BTW if money is a problem, I'd be happy to pay for the book for you from one of the Amazon.com used booksellers.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.

 

[solarwave]

Actually, I'm not convinced that that's a completely true statement. A lot depends on how one defines faith.

But you wouldn't claim that someone who believes in Jesus but not a 6000 year old earth is going to hell?

I don't think agreement to statements saves, only a changed heart.

How do you define faith, of the least necessary for salvation?

I also think that the words of Jesus in the Bible are fallible as written by men. Even if the words of Jesus in the Bible were infallible it doesn't mean that Jesus thought Genesis was literal (and even if He did Jesus was omniscient) because when I talk to people who are creationists and am trying to explain something I will often talk as if creation in Genesis was literally true because it helps put the point across.

You wrote:

For example I believe now that the love of God is a consuming fire of that reassures us that goodness will win out and that love is the foundation of reality because God is love and that this love can be mirrored in amazing ways in human life.

Not in this world, right?

What do you mean? Humans cant learn to act more like Jesus in this life?

Good morning Solarwave,

So your answer to the question is that salvation is only possible for those who have heard of Jesus? It might not be good to start a debate about this though.

That's correct, and, of course those who can keep the law.

See I have to disagree and say salvation is possible for all and having faith is more an issue of the heart rather than mind.

 

[solarwave]

How can you be made in the image of God, since you deny that Adam is real? It is Adam who is made in the image of God, and you claim that you are not an Adam, by rejecting your firstborn and father -from whose loins you have come forth in the Adam race; having been ordained from the beginning to come forth, by being written in the Book of Life, in which all the Adam persons/souls were written, and in which every member of their body and the boundaries of their days was determined, before the foundation of the world, as the Word of God teaches.

Because I take the Genesis story to be spiritually true, a metaphor. So the meanings trying to be put across are true and so all human (that adam and eve represent in a way) are made in the image of God.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Because I take the Genesis story to be spiritually true, a metaphor. So the meanings trying to be put across are true and so all human (that adam and eve represent in a way) are made in the image of God.

You have reduced the Word of God to being just some story written by some men, somewhere, for some reason, but no one even knows when, why, or for what reason, because it is not what it says it is, and someone else, somewhere, has a better idea that you ascribe to, but you don't even know exactly what that is -you just take "it" by faith, and toss the Truth of the Word of God away from you.

By your own words of unbelief, Jesus the Christ does not exist, as described in the Word of God from Genesis 1 -to Revelation, and as first described by Enoch the prophet, when he saw Him hidden in secret in heaven, with God, and as God.
Denying the Adam creation as the first "man", there is no need for a Redeemer for Adam, by a second "Man".

Solarwave,
I do not believe that you are at all familiar with the most basic Bible doctrines on the Triune God, or the creation of Adam as two persons, male and female, who multiply the seed of the one Adam creation, for the purpose of their creation to be sons of God of the human being kind; but since the fall, all in vain are the seed multiplied, and only by adoption into the Living Spirit and name of the New Man, by His Atonement for His "kinsmen =the Adam race [whosoever will] can an Adam "worm" person, be morphosed into the glorious image of the Son of God [which is the hope of the redeemed Adam persons].

If you "din'na know whur ye be cummin' from", then, "ye din'na know whur ye be goin'".

 

[solarwave]

You have reduced the Word of God to being just some story written by some men, somewhere, for some reason, but no one even knows when, why, or for what reason, because it is not what it says it is, and someone else, somewhere, has a better idea that you ascribe to, but you don't even know exactly what that is -you just take "it" by faith, and toss the Truth of the Word of God away from you.

Must a book be infallible to have truth in it? Of course not. Have not made the Word of God into some story because the Word of God is Christ, not the Bible. I believe the writters of the Bible had real experiences with God and that is the reason for it being written.

You seem to think what I believe makes beliefs about God to be subjective compared to your own, but I think you would find your understanding of the Bible is based on your choice of what type of writting certain parts of the Bible are and what principles should be emphasised more.

You can believe in an infallible Bible but have differing understandings of God. For example you could believe God only loves a very small percentage of the world or that God loves all, you could believe God is a puppet master or that free will is necessary for moral choice, you can believe the universe is 13.7 billion years old or that it is just 6000 years old. So my point is this, you may have an infallible book but you dont have an infallible reader and so making your understanding subjective just like mine.

By your own words of unbelief, Jesus the Christ does not exist, as described in the Word of God from Genesis 1 -to Revelation, and as first described by Enoch the prophet, when he saw Him hidden in secret in heaven, with God, and as God.
Denying the Adam creation as the first "man", there is no need for a Redeemer for Adam, by a second "Man".

I do believe in Jesus because history books need not be infallible to contain correct information. The reality of Jesus' resurrection seems to be the best understanding of what happened 2000 years ago, because something most definitely happened.

Solarwave,
I do not believe that you are at all familiar with the most basic Bible doctrines on the Triune God, or the creation of Adam as two persons, male and female, who multiply the seed of the one Adam creation, for the purpose of their creation to be sons of God of the human being kind; but since the fall, all in vain are the seed multiplied, and only by adoption into the Living Spirit and name of the New Man, by His Atonement for His "kinsmen =the Adam race [whosoever will] can an Adam "worm" person, be morphosed into the glorious image of the Son of God [which is the hope of the redeemed Adam persons].

What sort of basic doctrines? This view of Adam being two people I havn't heard of before or you are using different words for something I have heard of. Either way no church (all of which have been conservative christian) I have ever been to has used the wording you are so its not that basic a belief.

I think if you were to ask me to explain a evangelical doctrine of Christianity I would be able to explain it well because that is what I believed for a huge percent of my life.

 

[miamited]

Good afternoon Solarwave,

Before we go any further, I asked a question several posts back and perhaps I missed your response so I'll post it again. Can you find or give me the scientific explanation for how a woman 2,000 years ago had a child without any introduction of sperm into her womb?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted.