Who cares about the age of the earth, or space?

[jonathan180iq]

The seasons and times are defined by such things as sunlight, photosynthesis, the weather, etc. which are a result of the very heavens God created for us. The bible says until the world ends, summer and winter will never cease. I mean that we won't get our beloved petroleum, or food, or water, or a new place to live, or any new organic friends from any of the celestial bodies.

Nothing I have said or written denies any of this... There are some crazy alien conversations over on the Apologetics board, but I certainly don't take that junk seriously either.

Genesis 8:22
While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

Again, I agree with this and have not made a claim against it.

The 'very laws by which all things operate' include this thing called 'quantum fluctuation'. "In quantum physics, a quantum fluctuation is the temporary change in the amount of energy in a point in space,[1] arising from Werner Heisenberg's uncertainty principle." Simply put, that means they are really uncertain of what exactly happened. But I am certain of what happened because of Genesis 1. I don't need endlessly developing and complex equations to explain it, I have the straightforward truth right there in front of me.

As far as I know, quantum fluctuations can only be applied for short periods of time... how short that is and what that means for all future occurances, I don't know. Of course we are uncertain as to what actually happened. But then again, so are you. I take the Biblical account of creation as the inspired telling of creation as well, but from a theological perspective, not a scientific one. Surely you understand the difference between theology and science...where one does not contradict the other.
And then you bring up the idea of truth again. Yes, Genesis 1 is the truth of why God created man and it is an abbreviated explanation of some of the most important truths about the relationship between man and God and the relationships between man and women. But it is not, as is expressed in other areas of the Bible, the one and only creation story.

Also, physics theories are not what everything operates by. God does not operate by physics. He created them. The resurrection of Christ and the very creation of the universe is not explainable through physics theories.

You're right. The world operates on the Laws of Physics. And you're right again that God does not operate by them. He is above them, evidenced because he created them.

I could argue that the creation of the universe is explainable through physics, but that obviously wouldn't get us anywhere.

As for what you said about my citation of General Relativity, what else do you want me to do -- give up? The geocentric model is attacked by one scientific theory, and it so turns out another scientific theory can deflect that attack. Fight fire with fire!

No. I don't want you to give up. I just want you to be reasonable. Believing in the Geocentric model as the actual physical operating method of the solar system or the universe is in accurate. If you want to use that as a way of looking at your daily life, there is nothing wrong with that. I mean, for many many many centuries man had no idea what was beyond the atmosphere and they carried out their daily lives just fine. It's not like knowledge of space is absolutely necessary for your survival. We do live here, and standing on the surface of the Earth does give the impression that all of the heavens are moving around us. HOWEVER, since we now know that the central point of objects in our solar system is the Sun, and not the Earth, since this is actually observable once you leave the confines of standing on the Earth, then claiming that the Geocentric model is factually correct, and trying to make "scientific" claims based on that, is just silly.

 

[jonathan180iq]

Sorry, but extensive study of the sun, which is a star, has conclusively proven, by various means of study that it is a star, powered by the process of nuclear fusion, mainly of hydrogen atoms. Stellar spectrometry, which can identify elements present, has established this fact, and the main composition of the sun is hydrogen. That's the same basic principle behind the study of red shift. And a star, which is a physical object, is not an angel, which is a spirit being, just as God is Spirit. What I do agree is that angels can take physical form, and have done so on various occasions, as recorded in the Bible.

Hydrogen spectral series - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Anyway, the sun generates its own light, and the moon reflects the sun's light.

And, when Revelation talks about 'stars' falling from the sky, I don't take that literally. Stars are much more massive than the earth, and as I believe Solarwave pointed out, it would only take one to completely obliterate the earth...even the one we're in orbit around.

...Some people simply won't listen to reason or facts, as it disrupts a very shallow view of scripture which they have obviously spent a lot of time trying to develop. It's very hard for people to admit when they are wrong because that would require admitting belief in a false world view. I just wish they could see that understanding the physcial way in which God created our world does not, in any way, take away from the theological truths that God has shows us the Bible.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Nothing I have said or written denies any of this... There are some crazy alien conversations over on the Apologetics board, but I certainly don't take that junk seriously either.

Cool, I was just making sure you don't think I know the sun provides heat and light (which is what makes or breaks a season.)

As far as I know, quantum fluctuations can only be applied for short periods of time... how short that is and what that means for all future occurances, I don't know. Of course we are uncertain as to what actually happened. But then again, so are you. I take the Biblical account of creation as the inspired telling of creation as well, but from a theological perspective, not a scientific one. Surely you understand the difference between theology and science...where one does not contradict the other.
And then you bring up the idea of truth again. Yes, Genesis 1 is the truth of why God created man and it is an abbreviated explanation of some of the most important truths about the relationship between man and God and the relationships between man and women. But it is not, as is expressed in other areas of the Bible, the one and only creation story.

I know what happened... exactly what it says in Genesis 1 is exactly what happened. There is no reason to insist that Genesis 2 is a different account when we take into consideration the fact that verses 8 and 19 are intended to be taken as pluperfects, and in fact the whole second chapter is meant to be read in light of the first chapter. That's how books go, right? Front to back? This isn't the Q'uran.

No. I don't want you to give up. I just want you to be reasonable. Believing in the Geocentric model as the actual physical operating method of the solar system or the universe is in accurate. If you want to use that as a way of looking at your daily life, there is nothing wrong with that. I mean, for many many many centuries man had no idea what was beyond the atmosphere and they carried out their daily lives just fine. It's not like knowledge of space is absolutely necessary for your survival. We do live here, and standing on the surface of the Earth does give the impression that all of the heavens are moving around us. HOWEVER, since we now know that the central point of objects in our solar system is the Sun, and not the Earth, since this is actually observable once you leave the confines of standing on the Earth, then claiming that the Geocentric model is factually correct, and trying to make "scientific" claims based on that, is just silly.

That's just it, I have no reason to believe we are just part of a 'solar system'. I believe the entirety of the heavens is just one system, to be regarded as a separate creation than earth. Every star in the universe functions together as our time system and it doesn't work the other way around...

 

[jonathan180iq]

Cool, I was just making sure you don't think I know the sun provides heat and light (which is what makes or breaks a season.)

Yay! I think if you had told me that the sun wasn't a star and that it was actually just a point of light, I'd probably just stop using the internet...

I know what happened... exactly what it says in Genesis 1 is exactly what happened. There is no reason to insist that Genesis 2 is a different account when we take into consideration the fact that verses 8 and 19 are intended to be taken as pluperfects, and in fact the whole second chapter is meant to be read in light of the first chapter. That's how books go, right? Front to back? This isn't the Q'uran.

I'm not saying that Genesis 2 isn't a zoom-in to a specific account of the creation story. I do think it's interesting that the peripheral creation accounts, what was made on what day, doesn't line up with what was established in Gen. 1. But we're just going to go 'round and 'round on this. No reason to even start.

That's just it, I have no reason to believe we are just part of a 'solar system'. I believe the entirety of the heavens is just one system, to be regarded as a separate creation than earth. Every star in the universe functions together as our time system and it doesn't work the other way around...

And my only argument here is that...well I mean it's obviously the way that the universe works. Gravity is expressed everywhere. It's what keeps satellites in orbit, it's what hold the moon in place above the Earth, it's what keeps the moons of all other planets in orbit around those planets, it's what keeps the planets, the Earth as well, in motion around the sun, it's what keeps our solar system in orbit around the center of our galaxy, and it's what keeps things moving towards and away from each other for ever and ever. Saying that does not take anything away from the God of creation; the very God who created everything that I am talking about. The God who also redeemed humanity through the sacrificial blood of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. All the same thing. I guess we just read certain parts of His word differently...

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Sorry, but extensive study of the sun, which is a star, has conclusively proven, by various means of study that it is a star, powered by the process of nuclear fusion, mainly of hydrogen atoms. Stellar spectrometry, which can identify elements present, has established this fact, and the main composition of the sun is hydrogen. That's the same basic principle behind the study of red shift. And a star, which is a physical object, is not an angel, which is a spirit being, just as God is Spirit. What I do agree is that angels can take physical form, and have done so on various occasions, as recorded in the Bible.



Anyway, the sun generates its own light, and the moon reflects the sun's light.

And, when Revelation talks about 'stars' falling from the sky, I don't take that to literally mean stars like Sirius, or even Proxima Centauri, which is only 4.2 or so light-years from earth. Stars are much more massive than the earth, and as I believe Solarwave pointed out, it would only take one to completely obliterate the earth...even the one we're in orbit around.

YouTube - Electric Sun - Plasma Sun | from documentary "Thunderbolts" The Sun is Electrical in nature
The sun is electric in nature -"scientific" data proves it.

Amazing that you know things you have never seen, tested, proved or experienced, while rejecting the Word of God, which tells us the Truth about His creation.
The sun is not the source of light, but the governor/ruler dispenser of "light" -Genesis 1. It is also not a star, nor a hydrogen furnace, but is made of crystal and tongues of fire -generated by the force called "light" created on day 1, refracted gloriously to all the heavens, from one end/extreme of them to the other.
The sun is also where the Creator, in the Person of God the Great Glory/The Word [who is come in flesh] set His created temple/tabernacle/dwelling place; and from which temple He looks down on/scans intently, the sons of men below who appear as grasshoppers in His sight.

Enoch visited the temple made of tongues of fire and cut crystal, where the Great Glory sits on His throne; and because YHWH wrote through the inspired Pslamist, David, that He set His tabernacle/temple/dwelling place in the sun; then Enoch went into the sun.

The angel in Revelation stands in the sun: Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
The sun is a type, symbol of Christ, the second Person in YHWH come in flesh, as the glory of the Unseen Creator, in the first person.


Mat 17:2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

When Christ come in flesh returns to reign in His glory, then there will be no night in Jerusalem/Israel for the millennium, for the glory of Christ come in flesh will outshine the sun.
Isa 60:1 ¶ Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. Isa 60:2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

Isa 60:19 ¶ The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

But born again in Christ believers who are rewarded with their measure of glory for turning many to righteousness will only shine like the stars in their glory, which is not to be compared with the sun shining in its glory, for the sun represents God the Word, and the stars represent those born of the Living Spirit, who are glorified.

Douay-Rheims correctly translated the Psalm -as the Septuagint and the Vulgate did: "in the sun He has set His tabernacle":
Douay-Rheims 18:6 He hath set his tabernacle in the sun:

Enoch sees the temple which is set in the sun:
Enoch 14:
8And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. 9And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright me. 10And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor made of crystals, and its groundwork was of crystal. 11Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were fiery cherubim, and their heaven was clear as water. 12A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its portals blazed with fire. 13And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. 14And as I quaked and trembled, I fell upon my face. 15And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. 16And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to you its splendour and its extent. 17And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. 18And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of cherubim. 19And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look thereon. 20And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and was whiter than any snow. 21None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason of the magnificence and glory, and no flesh could behold Him. 22The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times ten thousand stood before Him, yet He needed no counsellor. 23And the most holy ones who were nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him.

Isaiah 18:4, YHWH states that His dwelling place/tabernacle is in the sun
so YHWH said [I will]rest [and] consider[look down upon] [from my] tabernacle/ dwelling place [set in the]dazzling hot upon sun

 

[yeshuasavedme]

And my only argument here is that...well I mean it's obviously the way that the universe works. Gravity is expressed everywhere. It's what keeps satellites in orbit, it's what hold the moon in place above the Earth, it's what keeps the moons of all other planets in orbit around those planets, it's what keeps the planets, the Earth as well, in motion around the sun, it's what keeps our solar system in orbit around the center of our galaxy, and it's what keeps things moving towards and away from each other for ever and ever. Saying that does not take anything away from the God of creation; the very God who created everything that I am talking about. The God who also redeemed humanity through the sacrificial blood of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. All the same thing. I guess we just read certain parts of His word differently...

Gravity is the weakest , known "force" of God's creation. A "force/power" of a child's magnet is more powerful than "gravity".

 

[yeshuasavedme]

HOWEVER, since we now know that the central point of objects in our solar system is the Sun, and not the Earth, since this is actually observable once you leave the confines of standing on the Earth, then claiming that the Geocentric model is factually correct, and trying to make "scientific" claims based on that, is just silly.

You know no such thing! God knows, and told us that there were no heavens created until day 2 of creation week of six ordinary days of evenings and mornings, and the heavens are stretched out from earth, between the divided waters of creation. Half of the waters of earth's creations are above the stretched out heavens.
Heavens/ שמים shamayim is named by the Creator, in the Hebrew, as cut/raised aloft/ש, waters/mayim .

http://www.geocentrism.com/

 

[Jadis40]

The sun is not made of cut crystal, and such a claim or belief is absurd. The guy in the video you posted even clearly stated the sun is a star, and he's right. While I dismiss most of what he stated, one thing that is true is that the sun emits protons and electrons, which are electrically charged particles.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

The sun is not made of cut crystal, and such a claim or belief is absurd. The guy in the video you posted even clearly stated the sun is a star, so I guess he's wrong in that too. What he is right about though is that the sun emits protons and electrons, which are electrically charged particles.

If you had been reading my posts then you would know that the "guy" in the video is not a born again in Christ Bible believing Christian, and the "guy in the video" is proving that the sun is not a hydrogen furnace, but electrical in nature, which is in agreement with the Word of God.

If you read the Word of God, in fact looked at what He said, using the original inspired words, then you would know that God "made" the sun on day 4 of creation week and set it in the stretched out heavens to serve as a "chandelier" so to speak [the Hebrew word gives us the same word as that], and to rule the light He brought into being on day 1.

If you read the Word of God then you would know that indeed, the sun is where God set His created tabernacle in which He dwells and sits on His throne of Glory and looks down upon the inhabitants of earth, who are like grasshoppers in His sight.

Enoch tells us the sun He entered [because He did enter into it as that is where the tabernacle is set in which Enoch entered] was "pillars of fire, and the temple within was tessellated/cut crystal and tongues of fire.

John also visited the temple in the sun, and described the "crystal" sea/floor of the temple.

God said He set His temple in the sun, and many Scriptures verify this fact about God's dwelling place in the "circle" of the heavens.
That is where He sits on His throne of Glory, as God the Word, who is come in flesh and is Jesus the Christ, and Israel, the Second Man of human being creation, so as to be Redeemer/Kinsman to the Adam race.

The power of rock crystal to refract light is dealt with in the book by another brilliant thinker and informed man who is not a Bible believing Christian -an intelligent pagan, in fact- but whose work touches on the verification of the sun as a crystal and fire/light refracting body: The crystal Sun:http://www.robert-temple.com/crystalSunMain.html

Paul quoted other works, and so can I.

 

[ivebeenshown]

And my only argument here is that...well I mean it's obviously the way that the universe works. Gravity is expressed everywhere. It's what keeps satellites in orbit, it's what hold the moon in place above the Earth, it's what keeps the moons of all other planets in orbit around those planets, it's what keeps the planets, the Earth as well, in motion around the sun, it's what keeps our solar system in orbit around the center of our galaxy, and it's what keeps things moving towards and away from each other for ever and ever. Saying that does not take anything away from the God of creation; the very God who created everything that I am talking about. The God who also redeemed humanity through the sacrificial blood of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ. All the same thing. I guess we just read certain parts of His word differently...

After some consideration... I think I will accept that the earth does rotate. The earth can still be the center of the universe without being immobile. "Removed from her place", now that I think about it, here is how I have come to view it. It just took the right idea to come to me to explain it. Isaiah 13:13 was the only verse I had seen that I had attributed to an immobile earth.

"Are you on your way?"

"No, I haven't left my place yet."

'My place' would be my house, and in my house, I go through my usual motions, moving around and doing what I do.
Likewise the earth's place is her orbit, and in her orbit she goes around the sun doing what she does.
The end of the world will be catastrophic because she will leave her place as the heavens are melting or 'falling apart' into chaos and her orbit is no more.

I have a pictoral mind, sometimes I just need to be explained with the right analogy or come to it on my own. Maybe this explanation will help someone else too.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I have a pictoral mind, sometimes I just need to be explained with the right analogy or come to it on my own.

Picture Genesis 1.
Earth created, no heavens, no "dry", no sun, no moon, no stars.

Picture this: heavens stretched out from the earth, between the cut in half waters, on day 2. No sun, no moon, and no stars -other than the forces/spirits that " pillar the earth".

Picture this: sun and moon made, and set in the stretched out from earth heavens, and the stars also, on day 4.

Picture this:
NASA uses fixed -geocentric- earth formulas to launch craft into space.
CAI - Guy Consolmagno, Head of Vatican Observatory, Will Not Deny Geocentrism ~ Robert Sungenis

Picture the fixed earth moving out of its fixed place, in the tribulation, but YHWH resetting the pillars of it, in Psalm 75:2,3
Psa 93:1
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, [wherewith] he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Picture this:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mar 13:25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
Rev 8:10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
Rev 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Picture this judgment of the chained, in Sheol below, angels/stars/sons of God, who fornicated with daughters born in Adam [Genesis 6, in Hebrew], as Enoch tells it:
1 Enoch 90:
20"And I saw till a throne was erected in the pleasant land, and the Lord of the sheep sat Himself thereon, and the other took the sealed books and opened those books before the Lord of the sheep. 21"And the Lord called those men the seven first white ones [seven chiefs of the chief Watcher angels], and commanded that they should bring before Him, beginning with the first star which led the way, all the stars whose privy members were like those of horses, and they brought them all before Him....

24And the judgement was held first over the stars, and they were judged and found guilty, and went to the place of condemnation, and they were cast into an abyss, full of fire and flaming, and full of pillars of fire.

Picture this, all the stars are angels, and they are all named by the Creator:

1 Enoch 43 And I saw other lightnings and the stars of heaven, and I saw how He called them all by their names and they hearkened unto Him. 2And I saw how they are weighed in a righteous balance according to their proportions of light: I saw the width of their spaces and the day of their appearing, and how their revolution produces lightning: and I saw their revolution according to the number of the angels, and how they keep faith with each other.

And:
Psa 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names.

Isa 40:26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these [things], that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that [he is] strong in power; not one faileth.
Picture shining like the heavens in their brightness of day, or like the stars in their glory:
Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Picture the stars -the host/armies of heaven fighting for Israel:
Jdg 5:20 They fought from heaven; the stars in their courses fought against Sisera.
floods, hailstones and lightnings were sent upon the enemies of Israel, by the stars in their courses.

Picture the sun standing still, and the moon, for nearly a whole day, when the sun should have gone down in the heavens:
Jos 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.Hab 3:11 The sun [and] moon stood still in their habitation: at the light of thine arrows they went, [and] at the shining of thy glittering spear.

Picture the earth turning upside down and the seasons backwards, in the Tribulation:

1 Enoch 80:
2And in the days of the sinners the years shall be shortened,
And their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields,
And all things on the earth shall alter,And shall not appear in their time:
And the rain shall be kept back
And the heaven shall withhold it.
3And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward,
And shall not grow in their time,
And the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time.
4And the moon shall alter her order,
And not appear at her time.
5And in those days the sun shall be seen and he shall journey in the evening on the extremity of the great chariot in the west
And shall shine more brightly than accords with the order of light.
6And many chiefs of the stars shall transgress the order prescribed.
And these shall alter their orbits and tasks,
And not appear at the seasons prescribed to them.
7And the whole order of the stars shall be concealed from the sinners,
And the thoughts of those on the earth shall err concerning them,
And they shall be altered from all their ways,
Yea, they shall err and take them to be gods.
8And evil shall be multiplied upon them,
And punishment shall come upon them

And:
Isa 24:1 Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.




Isa 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.

Isa 24:21 ¶ And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.
Isa 24:22 And they shall be gathered together, [as] prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.
Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his
Isa 13:13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger. Isa 13:14 And it shall be as the chased gazelle/ roe, and as a sheep that no man taketh up: they shall every man turn to his own people, and flee every one into his own land.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Picture Genesis 1.
Earth created, no heavens, no "dry", no sun, no moon, no stars.

Picture this: heavens stretched out from the earth, between the cut in half waters, on day 2. No sun, no moon, and no stars -other than the forces/spirits that " pillar the earth".

Picture this: sun and moon made, and set in the stretched out from earth heavens, and the stars also, on day 4.

I understand the dividing of the waters, but it does not in itself state the earth is immobile or that it wasn't set in motion by God.

Picture this:
NASA uses fixed -geocentric- earth formulas to launch craft into space.
CAI - Guy Consolmagno, Head of Vatican Observatory, Will Not Deny Geocentrism ~ Robert Sungenis

For what type of launch? When they are launching into the vicinity of earth and the moon, maybe, but when they launched Cassini they used a heliocentric solar system model to calculate a gravity-assist fling type of trajectory. It is heliocentric for any far-out launch if I am not mistaken due to the use of the gravity of larger bodies in place of using more fuel.

Picture the fixed earth moving out of its fixed place, in the tribulation, but YHWH resetting the pillars of it, in Psalm 75:2,3
Psa 93:1
The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, [wherewith] he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.

Can it not be moved? Or can it be shaken and removed? Since it can be shaken and removed, I am inclined to say Psalm 93 is praiseful poetry or it would contradict the verses about earthquakes and removing from her place.

As for Isaiah 13 and 24, a deer or sheep can roam freely and calmly as the earth could orbit the sun in a reserved manner, but then the gazelle can be frantic and chased and zig-zagging. Likewise, a sober man can walk a clear-cut path whereas a drunken man can reel to and fro, in chaos. These verses do not specifically imply geocentricity due to these explanations.

Also, 'turning the world upside down' is a figure of speech. The earth has gravity, and the things on the 'bottom' of the globe (which you acknowledge is a globe) do not simply 'fall off' because it is 'upside down'.

I guess I am still up in the air when it comes to the stars and angels and names. That is a very good point I will study now. It may just be what can solidify a geocentric theory.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Numbers 24:17
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, and shall smite the corners of Moab, and destroy all the children of Sheth.

Jesus is called many things. A branch, a vine, a bright shining morning star, and a lion to name a few. He is THE Son of God. But is he actually a 'star' or is it to be taken as a metaphor?

Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Talking about angels again. But like Jesus, are they really stars or is that a figure of speech?

Psalm 148:3
Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.

Are the sun and moon not told with the stars in the sky to praise God? Would the sun and the moon also be angels, if the stars were in actuality angels?

Joel 3:15
The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Do the stars in the sky truly 'fall', or is that also a figure of speech for their going dark? If the terms 'corners of the earth' and 'ends of the earth' can be rationalized as figures of speech by other verses that state the earth's swaddlingband is darkness and the earth is a circle (sphere), then the 'falling of the stars' can surely be rationalized as a figure of speech by the verses which state they simply 'go dark'. After all, Jesus said "Lazarus is sleeping" in speaking of his temporal physical death until the resurrection. It was a figure of speech as well.

 

[solarwave]

Electric Sun?

Scientists can see the sun and use good science to find out how it works. We can also see stars and stars look just like the sun.

The sun is mostly hydrogen which is super hot. But hydrogen is made of protons and there are also electrons and neutrons in the sun too. So in a way the sun could be said to be electric in the sense that the Sun is made of charged particles which act by the electromagnetic force (one of the 4 fundemental forces..... on this why do you keep pointing out how weak gravity is compared to the others? Its weak but still strong enough to keep the earth in orbit).

Anyway I am going to have alot going on for the next few days/weeks so I wont be able to reply as much if at all, so good luck guys.... and girls.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Electric Sun?

Scientists can see the sun and use good science to find out how it works. We can also see stars and stars look just like the sun.

The sun is mostly hydrogen which is super hot. But hydrogen is made of protons and there are also electrons and neutrons in the sun too. So in a way the sun could be said to be electric in the sense that the Sun is made of charged particles which act by the electromagnetic force (one of the 4 fundemental forces..... on this why do you keep pointing out how weak gravity is compared to the others? Its weak but still strong enough to keep the earth in orbit).

Anyway I am going to have alot going on for the next few days/weeks so I wont be able to reply as much if at all, so good luck guys.... and girls.

The earth does not orbit anything, biblically speaking. There is no scientific data that can prove the earth orbits or moves; not anywhere, not anytime, can anyone point to any data that proves the earth moves, rotates, spins, or tilts.
www.geocentrism.com observations

All the data points to an electric universe and an electric sun.

The Electric Sun/Earth Connection Confirmed

And YHWH states that He set His temple/dwelling place, in the created sun, as I posted the Scripture to already.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

I understand the dividing of the waters, but it does not in itself state the earth is immobile or that it wasn't set in motion by God.

Since the earth was made before the heavens, and the heavens were stretched out -as literally the offspring of the earth, by the passage in Isaiah 42, in the Hebrew- between the divided waters, then why would the earth begin moving after the heavens were stretched out from them?

Dr. Robert Sungenis highlights the sophistry that is required in order to maintain the current absurd belief in Heliocentrism:

"The 'quasars' are what led people like [Stephen] Hawking to notice that the Earth was in the center of the universe. [James Clerk] Maxwell said there was absolute space, the basis of Geocentrism, and his equations prove it. Einstein said no. You argue with them. As for Einstein, if you want to believe that lengths shrink when an object moves, time changes in the process, and its mass increases, just so you can explain the anomalies of Michelson's experiment, that's your privilege, but I'd just assume to answer it by saying that mass, time and length stay the same and the Earth isn't moving, and I'm just as "scientific" as you for saying so."
The "Rotating" Earth..
​

Also, 'turning the world upside down' is a figure of speech. The earth has gravity, and the things on the 'bottom' of the globe (which you acknowledge is a globe) do not simply 'fall off' because it is 'upside down'.

Who said anything falls off the earth? -It is the stars that fall down to earth, from heaven, biblically speaking, but nothing falls off the earth. The stars that fall down are from the entire circle of the heavens.

The passages I quoted, together, show that the earth is indeed turned upside down, and the seasons will be "backwards" in the tribulation time of that happening. North is always "up" and South is always "down", but in the tribulation, North will not be "up", and South will not be "down", when the earth is moved out of its place, turned upside down, and the seasons are backwards.

I guess I am still up in the air when it comes to the stars and angels and names. That is a very good point I will study now. It may just be what can solidify a geocentric theory.

Begin with Enoch, who is the one who was shown everything and whose written revelations are foundational teachings for all Bible doctrines. that is why the doctrines given in Enoch are not re-laid by Moses or any other prophet, yet all refer to what Enoch saw and wrote of. God did not need to speak twice about His one plan and one creation, from the beginning.
http://www.summascriptura.com/html/Enoch_1_RHC.htm

 

[jonathan180iq]

Enoch....is not accepted scripture.

 

[jonathan180iq]

You know no such thing!

Yes I do. You can move a satellite just outside of Earth's gravitational pull, cease movement of the satellite, and visibly watch the Earth move away....getting smaller and smaller as it continues it's never-ending march around the sun.

What you are doing, in attempting to validate your interpretation of scripture, even of non-canonical books, is denying the general revelation of God's work.

I admit that there are inconsistencies, at least from your perspective, given the way you read Genesis 1. But I think you have to read it in light of all other knowledge that we have; the knowledge of the history of Israel, the knowledge of the differing priestly traditions, the knowledge of the refuation of other religions by classing all of their gods into specific days under which the God of the universe, the God of the Bible, is authority over them, and finally the knowledge of the physical world.

 

[pgp_protector]

This thread can't be real.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

Enoch....is not accepted scripture.

Enoch is accepted Scripture =sacred writing, in the Ethiopian Bible =collection of books and always has been, since before they were born again in Christ believers in the Gospel; and is accepted Scripture my Bible =collection of books, and in the Bible of the sons of Zadok [heirs to the royal priesthood in Israel, for the millennial reign, as Ezekiel states also], who left their "Bible =collection of books/manuscripts in the Qumran caves; and Enoch was in Paul's Bible =collection of books, from which Paul quotes many themes on Jesus, the Son of Man who was the hidden wisdom, now revealed and the One to whom every knee shall bow and tongue confess, as Enoch reports in His writings, when He writes about God the Great Glory "swearing" that all knees will bow and tongues confess to that Son of Man, as God -but too late for the wicked, as Enoch shows.

Jesus accepted and preached His Gospel from Enoch's revelations of Him as the hidden Son of Man in heaven, who was hidden in God, and who was God, and who was to come -and is come.
Jesus calls Enoch Scripture, when He rebuked the Sadducees for not "knowing the Scriptures" that reveal that in heaven the angels do not marry nor give in marriage and that in the resurrection the saints will be one with, equal with, the angels in heaven. Only Enoch revealed that, and Jesus rebukes those who do not know it, for not knowing "the Scriptures/writings -called sacred".
Jesus called Enoch the Wisdom of God, when quoting what the Wisdom of God said about God the Word sending apostles to the nation of Israel, to call them back to Him, but that Israel would persecute and kill them.

In this day of increased knowledge through instant access to historical records there is no reason for anyone to be ignorant of the history of the book of Enoch as having been called Scripture and used as Scripture and as the foundational revelation for all OT and NT doctrines
on all the themes of Salvation in the name of the Son of Man,
who was seen in heaven, hidden with God and who was God, by Enoch,

and the doctrines of demons and the doctrines of the Satans [with one chief]
and the doctrines of the Watchers
nd the doctrines of Sheol below earth
and the doctrine of the Lake of Fire as the "outer darkness"
and the created, final, home of the chief created Satan and his unholy angels of darkness,
and the doctrine of the City of God
and the doctrine of the rulers of darkness over earth
and the doctrines of the rapture before the tribulation
and the doctrine of the tribulation in the last days
and the doctrine of the millennial reign of peace,
and the doctrine of the Book of Life
and the doctrine of the regeneration of the heavens and the earth
-and so much more that all the prophets after Enoch do not re-lay the foundations of, but remark on them as solid True facts, with no relaying of the information of the foundational doctrines of them.