Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (2)

[razzelflabben]

will your God on unconditional love accept a pervert, child molester, killer, adulterer etc if the transgressor continue in their sins?

this is not hard to understand Sister

Notice Ozell, that I asked you a question so we could get to the bottom of the discussion and find out what you are trying to say but instead of answering the question, you tried to twist the answer into questions you think will catch me....so let's try this again....simply answer the question asked of you....here, I'll cut and paste it again for you....

Okay, I was gonna ignore this because it was addressed to someone else, but I thought of another way to approach this, so Ozell, let me ask you this question. What do you mean by accept. Maybe this is the communication error that is the center of this disagreement. When you say "will accept them as they are" what are you referring to exactly? Please be specific.

Once you answer the question, we can move forward with some kind of understanding about what you don't understand about what is being said.

What do you mean by accept? When you say, "will accept them as they are" what are you referring to exactly? Please be specific....by your refusal to answer, I'm guessing we are at the heart of the issue. What do you mean when you say, "will your God of unconditional love accept...?" What do you mean by the word accept? Your definition, your usage, of the word accept...

​

 

[ozell]

Job 36

1: Elihu also proceeded, and said,
2: Suffer me a little, and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.
3: I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
4: For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
5: Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.
6: He preserveth not the life of the wicked: but giveth right to the poor.
7: He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are they on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are exalted.

8: And if they be bound in fetters, and be holden in cords of affliction;

9: Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded.

10: He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.

11: If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.

12: But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.

13: But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.

14: They die in youth, and their life is among the unclean.

 

[ozell]

​

the opposite of Love is hate!!

(Prov 6:16-19)

(v.16) These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him

(v.17)

A proud look,

a lying tongue,

and hands that shed innocent blood,

(v.18)

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,

feet that be swift in running to mischief,

(v.19)

A false witness that speaketh lies,

and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

[ozell]

The OPPOSITE of LOVE is HATE!


(Hosea 9:15) All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

The God of the Bible Jesus do not love everyone as the denominations commonly teach!

 

[ozell]

God hates sin, and He punishes the sinner.

Is.26:21 "For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:"

 

[ozell]

Pro.30:5 Every word of God is pure:" and perfect:

Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: It is powerful:

(Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword,


Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[razzelflabben]

Same passage, different highlights...notice how a bit of reading changes your intent

Job 36

1: Elihu also proceeded, and said,
2: Suffer me a little,and I will shew thee that I have yet to speak on God's behalf.
3: I will fetch my knowledge from afar, and will ascribe righteousness to my Maker.
4: For truly my words shall not be false: he that is perfect in knowledge is with thee.
5: Behold, God is mighty, and despiseth not any: he is mighty in strength and wisdom.
6: He preserveth not the life of the wicked: but giveth right to the poor.
7: He withdraweth not his eyes from the righteous: but with kings are they on the throne; yea, he doth establish them for ever, and they are exalted.

8: And if they be bound in fetters, and be holden in cords of affliction;

9: Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded.

10: He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity.

11 : If they obey and serve him, they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures.

12: But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge.

13: But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them.

14: They die in youth, and their life is among the unclean.

notice it says in verse 5 and despiseth not any...there is a difference between hate and despise, God loves all, God is love, even this passage tells us that God's love is unconditional. Salvation on the other hand is conditional. It is important to understand the difference.

May the Lord of hosts open up the word to you, giving you eyes to see what the enemy is hiding.

 

[razzelflabben]

the opposite of Love is hate!!

(Prov 6:16-19)

(v.16) These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him

(v.17)

A proud look,

a lying tongue,

and hands that shed innocent blood,

(v.18)

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations,

feet that be swift in running to mischief,

(v.19)

A false witness that speaketh lies,

and he that soweth discord among brethren.

we have talked about that, you have been shown several reasons why the opposite of love cannot be hate and you refuse to refute any of the reasons so that you can continue on with your false teaching about God and His Love for us.

Before we can possibly accept or even consider your stand here, we need some logical, some biblical, some knowledge of how something you have been shown cannot be, (the opposite of love is hate) can be. What makes you think that all the evidence you were shown is false and you are right on this matter? Because you say so or have been taught so, isn't evidence.

 

[razzelflabben]

The OPPOSITE of LOVE is HATE!


(Hosea 9:15) All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters.

The God of the Bible Jesus do not love everyone as the denominations commonly teach!

refer to post 248

 

[razzelflabben]

God hates sin, and He punishes the sinner.

Is.26:21 "For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity:"

yep, never entered the debate

 

[razzelflabben]

Pro.30:5 Every word of God is pure:" and perfect:

Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: It is powerful:

(Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword,


Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

again, these passages have never been questioned, only your interpretation has been questioned.

 

[groktruth]

As one working out their salvation with fear and trembling, I am naturally interested in conditions to my ending up with God in Heaven, and in the "by this we know's" that inform me, assure me, that this is how things will end up.

Now, this has been a long discussion, and my efforts to read along have raised certain questions that I suppose might have been answered. Perhaps Ozell, you could point me to any posts that actually specify the commandments that we must keep. Or how you define commandments. Or any order (I like to do all things decently and in order). And what do you mean by keep? Is there any "preparing the way of the Lord" to this?

If you have already spelled this out, perhaps you could tell me which posts to look up.

Most exciting stuff. Worthy of the long thread!

Groktruth.

 

[ozell]

As one working out their salvation with fear and trembling, I am naturally interested in conditions to my ending up with God in Heaven, and in the "by this we know's" that inform me, assure me, that this is how things will end up.

Now, this has been a long discussion, and my efforts to read along have raised certain questions that I suppose might have been answered. Perhaps Ozell, you could point me to any posts that actually specify the commandments that we must keep. Or how you define commandments. Or any order (I like to do all things decently and in order). And what do you mean by keep? Is there any "preparing the way of the Lord" to this?

If you have already spelled this out, perhaps you could tell me which posts to look up.

Most exciting stuff. Worthy of the long thread!

Groktruth.

first and foremost thank you for the time and interest in the topic, peace to you in the mighty name of JESUS.

Where our fellow chrisitans fail to understand is God's has works HE wants us to do. let me say this again Jesus has works He wants us to do.

what are those works?

lets read what Jesus said

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

who commandments? Jesus commandments

not ozell's commandments, not man's commandments, not the Protestants, Catholics, or Orthodox commandments.

most christians think of the 10 and they are right, yet we are not taught this from the Jesus own mouth that every word from God is a command.

think about it for a moment!

Mt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

continue next post

 

[ozell]

As one working out their salvation with fear and trembling, I am naturally interested in conditions to my ending up with God in Heaven, and in the "by this we know's" that inform me, assure me, that this is how things will end up.

Now, this has been a long discussion, and my efforts to read along have raised certain questions that I suppose might have been answered. Perhaps Ozell, you could point me to any posts that actually specify the commandments that we must keep. Or how you define commandments. Or any order (I like to do all things decently and in order). And what do you mean by keep? Is there any "preparing the way of the Lord" to this?

If you have already spelled this out, perhaps you could tell me which posts to look up.

Most exciting stuff. Worthy of the long thread!

Groktruth.

look at these verses in the Bible that point to us doing some works

Paul said

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


James said

Jms 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jms 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jms 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

John said

Rv 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rv 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Now you know and understand I did not write this, neither is interpretation needed.

what works is Jesus talking about? we read where is says their works

what are these works that we are judged by? what are these works that we are to workout with fear and trembling?

 

[razzelflabben]

look at these verses in the Bible that point to us doing some works

Paul said

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


James said

Jms 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jms 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jms 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

John said

Rv 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rv 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Now you know and understand I did not write this, neither is interpretation needed.

what works is Jesus talking about? we read where is says their works

what are these works that we are judged by? what are these works that we are to workout with fear and trembling?

Ozell, interpretation isn't just about how you read something, it is also about how or where you apply it

 

[RevRo]

look at these verses in the Bible that point to us doing some works

Paul said

Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


James said

Jms 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Jms 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jms 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

John said

Rv 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rv 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Now you know and understand I did not write this, neither is interpretation needed.

what works is Jesus talking about? we read where is says their works

what are these works that we are judged by? what are these works that we are to workout with fear and trembling?

Notice that there were two books opened. The one book pertaing to the lost, the other pertaing to the book of life. Now the ones in the book of life have obtained salvation already as God's free gift, but there works are judged for their rewards. And if you do an in depth study on the rewards of the saved, you will see they are quite diverse.

 

[razzelflabben]

Notice that there were two books opened. The one book pertaing to the lost, the other pertaing to the book of life. Now the ones in the book of life have obtained salvation already as God's free gift, but there works are judged for their rewards. And if you do an in depth study on the rewards of the saved, you will see they are quite diverse.

salvation and love are two different things.

 

[RevRo]

salvation and love are two different things.

How?

 

[ozell]

Ozell, interpretation isn't just about how you read something, it is also about how or where you apply it

Sister

where you went to church at taught you to interpret God's word

The verse I put are simple and direct, no interpretation is needed!

 

[ozell]

Notice that there were two books opened. The one book pertaing to the lost, the other pertaing to the book of life. Now the ones in the book of life have obtained salvation already as God's free gift, but there works are judged for their rewards. And if you do an in depth study on the rewards of the saved, you will see they are quite diverse.

there is more than 2 Books Sister

lets read it again

Rv 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books (at least 2 books) were opened: and another (book +1 more) was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rv 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

sister
in order to becaome saved we must do what the Lord tell us to do.
is this correct?

Sister
in order for us to obtain salvation we must do as the Lord says do, is this correct?

in order for us to love the Lord and one another their are rules set in place for us to follow, is this correct?


a person can be blotted out of the book of life, those who are found in the book of life will be saved or obtain salvation which is the same thing.

remember Sister the BOOKS were opened

so if a person is not found in the book of life where is his place in the next life?

the lake of fire correct!!

yet God supposely love every one, this is what many here believe!!