Jesus is a God of conditional Love, not unconditional love. (2)

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ozell

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For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosover believes in Him shall not perish.

understand this from Paul in Hebrews addressing the same thing as John said

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Tell me who are the we that are sanctified by the body of Jesus?
 
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ozell

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Good, then I think we're all in agreement. Bless the Lord, oh my soul, and all that is within me bless his holy name.

No Brother

I'm in agreement with you, not them,

they still beleive Jesus love all even those who don't obey, accept or believe in HIM.
 
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tackattack

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Well Razzell agreed with my post and you agreed with my post, so why don't we agree? unless there is something one side or both is not letting go of? I'm glad I was able to interject and you heard me and saw truth in my words, and so did razzell. I believe they said they don't believe that somewhere along this thread. We're all on the same page I believe (I don't like speaking for others) so w can now either focus on our differences in the semantics and tautology or we can agree on the general principles we agree on and that are established in the Bible. Which will it be?
 
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ozell

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Matthew 10:37 [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. [/FONT][/FONT]38 [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. [/FONT][/FONT]39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.


Will you deny the LORD for your mother or your father or any other family member?


Will you turn away from His law for someone in your family?


Look and see who the LORD considers family members.


Matthew 12:46 While he yet talked to the people, behold, his mother and his brethren stood without, desiring to speak with him. 47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sisters
and mother. So I see, if you do the will of the Father in heaven you are a family member.
 
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ozell

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Proverbs 24:10 If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small. 11 If thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Look at verse 10, If thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength is small.

So when hard times come for the Word's sake, you brake, and don't lean on GOD you're weak.

Look at 11, thou forbear to deliver them that are drawn unto death, and those that are ready to be slain; 12 If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Remember the LORD knows what's on your mind you can't hide anything from Him. He will give you exactly what you have coming.
 
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razzelflabben

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I wanted to send this in PM, but I can't yet and I really didn't want to derail the thread any more so I won't respond to anything other than PM's on this derailment

All of this amounts to the same things I've said. I don't hold you responsible, you should feel completely blameless for this. It is my own inadequsies (never could spell that one either) and past that causes me to cringe at references to immaturity.
but that is the point, to refer to someone as my child, does NOT infer they are immature, especially when I am 50 and the likelihood of my children all being adults is high, a reference to my children would be identification of who they are, not their maturity level. It's all about context I guess.
There is no way you could have known that. I would hope as a compassionate Christian you would be concerned if someone has taken offence to your words, which you did and apologized. You are absolutely correct that it's not really about the conciseness of communication it's about the content. I was simply trying to ask you in a nice way not to relate immaturity or likeness to children in relation to me at all even remotely.
look I will try to remember, though I could easily forget, but you also need to remember that the word children is not only used as a statement of maturity, but also a statement of identification.
I'm new here and you did indeed specify that they liked this type of discussion, but you then followed it with a "but I" which also can be considered a tad sanctimonious.
I don't know how...if my children like spagetti, but I like pizza, how is it sanctimonious to state? It just doesn't follow. It is a difference in likes and dislikes, nothing more, nothing less.
When the bottom line is none of the sentence needed to be there at all, it serves no purpose and it makes me feel uncomfortable.
so now complimenting someone is wrong, not loving. One of the biggest problems I have with CF is the desire of so many to be offended rather than to communicate. I got reported and warned for accepting someones apology. for reminding someone to make sure they had the guilty party before executing them for a crime, etc. etc. etc. Heck, I got in trouble one time for asking it anyone had been before a holy God and allowed that God to blow away all the chaff in their lives. If these are things that you want to be offended by, I'm not sure the CF is a good place for you. In your case, I'm really not sure what the big deal is. If you have an emotionally negative response to something, you might want to bull back and relax before commenting about it in a forum like this. I know people on this forums that would eat you alive just because they could. It's a pretty evil place all in all, full of people who don't care who they hurt or how they hurt them. When you come to me and say, this hurts, I will try to refrain, though admittedly I am likely to forget. But there are others who lurk the waters of CF that would and will use it to insight you to an emotional response so that they can riducule you and your ideas and assasinate you. If you can't deal with that, words to the wise, either leave the forums or be extremely cautionous where you go.

Case in point, recently we lost our second son, I was in a debate in which I made a comment about another topic. The reply begged me to an emotional response. I refused to do an emotional response because of already raw emotions and told them why I refused. The onslot of aggressive emotional attacks was out of control and one person was so upset by the attacks that they stepped in to try to help. The attacks continued until the thread was closed. My point is this, if my compliment and admiration of your thinking style, is this big a deal, you will be assasinated on the forums if you don't stick to something extremely mild, like the game rooms, and even then, watch your back...just a friendly warning.
It wasn't your fault, you didn't know, so you shouldn't feel guilty. It's not about who was right or wrong, if anyone was it was me for not communicating my issues clearly. I truly appreciate your blessings and thoughts on the subject. My soul's condition however is my responsibility, not yours and I place it in Jesus' hands every day. I hope this doesn't distance us any more, I'm not here to ruffle feathers just talk about Christianity, but I thought in the interst of future conversations I could let you know about some things that make me uncomfortable.
as I said, I will try to be aware in the future, but I don't always check the icons before posting and so could forget, it is not intentional I assure you. Much as you must not have noticed my age before becoming offended.
I didn't tell you thos things to make you feel guilty because I wasn't offended, I just had a knee-jerk reaction, and wanted to have calm and peacefull discussions here. Thank you for your continued attention in this matter, but it was purely informational. I've spent far too much time on this matter that's keeping me from viewing other sections of the website. I hope that this doesn't upset you to the point you're going to ignore some one. In fact I wish you many blessings in your life.
If you want to PM more about this, let me know and I will send you a PM, you should be able to respond to that PM and maybe, talking will help some, I have a good deal of experience with my own negative emotional responses, especially with our sons deal being so fresh in our mind and hearts and I have learned much about Gods' way to heal from those attacks. (not claiming to be an expert, just offering some time to talk if you want)
 
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razzelflabben

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Thanks Bro!!!!

God is Love

you said what Solomon wrote


Prov 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Yet no where does it say that He with holds His love from those that do not love HIm....in fact, it could logically be argued that none of us love God with a pure, real love, which would mean that by your standards Ozell, none of us can be loved by God.
 
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razzelflabben

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the Point is The Lord was going to Kill Moses who we all know God loved and listened to.

The Lord was going to kill this man for not circumcising his sons
.

The Lord was going to kill Moses even though the Lord love him!!!
Ozell, you do realize don't you that to die this kind of death, is not eternal for God? That God sees things from a different perspective, from an eternal nature not a temperal one. I've pointed this out several times in scripture but this post indicates you still aren't getting it.
 
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razzelflabben

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this is why I know the Lord love me, not because of idle words or vain prayers

I keep his commandments which proves to him that I love him

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

check this one out

Jesus love me because I keep his commandments

lets read

1Jn 5
1: Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

everytime you or other posts I can always turn to these verses and more and read the what Godly love is!!!
Ozell, the only problem is that on this thread alone, you have broken His commandments several times and scripture tells us when we are guilty of one, we are guilty of all, so you must not love God, thus according to your theology, He does not and cannot love you....I think it is time for you to worry....
 
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razzelflabben

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so God love child molesters, and thieves and murderer

Jn 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

if these people don't repent and turn from their wicked ways your God on unconditional love will accpet them as they are

a child molester
a murderer
a thief

are you sure about this or are you speaking thru emotions?
Okay, I was gonna ignore this because it was addressed to someone else, but I thought of another way to approach this, so Ozell, let me ask you this question. What do you mean by accept. Maybe this is the communication error that is the center of this disagreement. When you say "will accept them as they are" what are you referring to exactly? Please be specific.
 
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razzelflabben

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=Christownsme;55759275]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whosover believes in Him shall not perish.

understand this from Paul in Hebrews addressing the same thing as John said

Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
6: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
7: Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
8: Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9: Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.
10: By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.


Tell me who are the we that are sanctified by the body of Jesus?

who is the world did the Father give Jesus for?







your prayer has a breach in it because of your spirit

Prov 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.

Jesus said this about his Holy Spirit

pay attention

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

16: And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17: Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
18: I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

see the condition of keeping Jesus commandments, notice the word if is used

someone where there is a breach in your prayer concerning the holy spirit

yet I know you never read this verse before so you should study it.

again concerning your prayers and your understanding of the holy spirit I leave you again with this verse

Prov 15:4 A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit.
Christownsme can pray for me anytime, it was a beautiful prayer full of spirit and truth.
 
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ozell

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Yet no where does it say that He with holds His love from those that do not love HIm....in fact, it could logically be argued that none of us love God with a pure, real love, which would mean that by your standards Ozell, none of us can be loved by God.

Sister

Read what is written this is God's standard, this is God's conditions

Prov 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
 
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ozell

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it really don't matter what any of you think you need to focus and understand what is written

Does God hate anyone?

The answer is yes.

(Psalm 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

(Psalm11:5) The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
 
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ozell

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Okay, I was gonna ignore this because it was addressed to someone else, but I thought of another way to approach this, so Ozell, let me ask you this question. What do you mean by accept. Maybe this is the communication error that is the center of this disagreement. When you say "will accept them as they are" what are you referring to exactly? Please be specific.


will your God on unconditional love accept a pervert, child molester, killer, adulterer etc if the transgressor continue in their sins?

this is not hard to understand Sister
 
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razzelflabben

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Read what is written this is God's standard, this is God's conditions

Prov 8:17 I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me.
Ozell, we have talked about this pretty extensively and you were shown that it does not remove love from those who do not love God in return. In fact, God loves everyone, or darling, you wouldn't be here claiming His love. IOW's your posts are evidence of His unconditional love for all of man kind.
 
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razzelflabben

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it really don't matter what any of you think you need to focus and understand what is written

Does God hate anyone?

The answer is yes.

(Psalm 5:5) The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

(Psalm11:5) The LORD trieth the righteous: but the wicked and him that loveth violence his soul hateth.
dear one, no one is arguing that God doesn't hate...okay, no very many people. What we are arguing is the definition of hate and whether or not it is opposed to real, biblical love. When you are reading to get involved in the discussion at hand, rather than continue to talk in circles of ignorance of the arguments being made, let us know it would be an exciting discussion.
 
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ozell

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Christownsme can pray for me anytime, it was a beautiful prayer full of spirit and truth.

why don't you two start a thread and pray for one another? :)

truth is this sister

Jn 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

here is words from the Most Hight God Jesus

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

those that Love God are sanctified by these truths

Jn 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.


how about this truth of words that sanctify us who God loves


1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

you can't get around this no matter how hard you try!!!
 
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