Forcing the Chruch to accept homosexuality..

[ivebeenshown]

Why them and no one else? If we approached them like everyone else then those who truly seek Christ may have the opportunity to find Him. As it is now they have to go through, all of our arguments and religious righteousness to Find Christ. Do you think Christ really wants us to put as much Pharisaical religion between Him and those who seek Him?

I only want to preach a message to those who identify as Christians yet for some reason deny those writings of Moses. It is not Homosexual Christians only, it is to other Christians -- there are other messages to be had and taught like the very message you helped me to realize about self-defense versus needless violence.

By God you helped me and by God I want to help others. I used to insert my own doctrines about homosexuality and drug use but I have been brought to a realization of truth in those regards thanks to the grace and glory of God. My life has been better as a result but I keep my main focus on the next life and want to do at least what I can to help.

There is nothing sinful about pointing out sins, and I would want anyone who was of understanding to point out my own -- they do happen, I know this for sure, and I want nothing more than to be free of sin.

 

[drich0150]

I only want to preach a message to those who identify as Christians yet for some reason deny those writings of Moses.

Just some diagnostic work here nothing personal:

Ask your self why these people want to deny the work and words of the bible whether it be from Moses, Christ or Paul. You will find most of the time it is a way to declassify what they want as a sin.

You do not have to accept their theology to simply set what they say aside. All I am suggesting is set what they are prepared to argue aside, and First identify what they want as a sin in a loving and respectful manner. Once this has been established, you can quickly separate the sheep from the goats, and sift the wheat from the chaff. There are some who only wish to argue, they will protest to the best of their ability, but for the most part will be silent This because you no longer provide the argument the have trained themselves for. So rather than risk humiliation they will seek out someone who wishes to debate them in the way they know they can win. those who are left are those who seek God.

Once you can establish sin, and lead them to repent. all of their works and efforts to try and silence moses Christ or Paul all becomes a moot point. So you are able to fulfill your wish, and help those who want to know God find a way to do so.

It is not Homosexual Christians only, it is to other Christians -- there are other messages to be had and taught like the very message you helped me to realize about self-defense versus needless violence.

If your efforts are to help them see a sin then do so. Just do not muddle yourself with their argument. YOU don't have to win an Argument, in Order for God to be accurately be represented in the argument.

You can most defiantly identify homosexuality as a sin, once you do, then proceed to work with those who still seek God. Shake the dust from your feet on those who would stand between you and those who are trapped in this sin but still seek God.

They should be your purpose for all of this effort. Not just a desire to be right.

 

[onemorequestion]

Which is the basis to my to the changes I am suggesting in my argument. In that Homosexuality is a Sin Outside the confines of a sanctified marriage. Not a special sin that need or calls for the need for the sinner to be segregated or chastised for their particular sin of
Choice.

Do we Chastise Liars? Do we segregate those who gossip even after Christ said that gossip was the most destructive sin to the body of believers? Homosexuality is a sin with consequence, but so are the rest. All unrepentant sin will receive the same Hell. All sin need the same redemption. So why not approach those who commit this sin the same way we approach every other sinner? Where is the Book, Chapter and Verses that says we must segregate those who practice this sin, and chastise them into submission?

Why them and no one else? If we approached them like everyone else then those who truly seek Christ may have the opportunity to find Him.

Am I missing something here?

Are there any Liar Pride Parades?

LGBT's refuse to admit that homosexual behavior is sinful.

As it is now they have to go through, all of our arguments and religious righteousness to Find Christ.

Prove that.

Do you think Christ really wants us to put as much Pharisaical religion between Him and those who seek Him?

Are you trying to make some kind of point? Whay ARE you trying to say?

IF . . . IF, we treat them as anyone else they demand that we are bigots, homophobes, and hateful.

What's your point?

 

[drich0150]

Am I missing something here?

Are there any Liar Pride Parades?

All sin has the opportunity to revel in pride. including liars. The parade is just one example of this pride manifesting it self. If the Pride was truly the issue you would be able to identify it as such. Unfortunatly The sin of pride is not the issue, the segregation of Gay pride is. This is a hypocritical behavior that will not stand on any kind of merrit before the Lord. Do you not know that how or what we use to measure the sins in others, will be in turn used against ourselves? Segregation of sin is a slippery slope most of us will not be able to navigate, without succumbing to hypocrisy.
This is why I suggest that we stay away from it.

LGBT's refuse to admit that homosexual behavior is sinful.

As I have said not all who speak, seek God. My efforts are not to force accountability on all. What I am suggesting is that we learn to identify those who seek help, from those who seek a fruitless argument. And Let those who are lost to homosexuality, battle it out to those who are lost to empty religion and tradition.

Prove that.

Simply look at the arguments that only produce more arguments. How is God served when those arguing only look to serve themselves?

Prove that empty arguments brings people to Christ. Prove that your arguments, are not indeed empty. Do they produce fruit?

Are you trying to make some kind of point? Whay ARE you trying to say?

IF . . . IF, we treat them as anyone else they demand that we are bigots, homophobes, and hateful.

What's your point?

I have said it over and over and over. Let go the arguments that they know how to fight. Take a step back, ask for love, compassion and mercy from the Spirit. Then quickly and simply identify homosexuality as being a sin in a way they can not argue with scripturally, and then allow the separation from those who want to argue from those who seek God happen on it's own. Let those who want to argue a self righteous theology go. and help those who seek God's truth.

I have found those who can not let go of the self righteous arguments are indeed cut from that same cloth. If you are having trouble yourself letting go then Seek help from the Spirit.

 

[Phinehas2]

Yes in many cases its a challenge and continues until the lifetsyle is conditioned, but of course it can be immediate. for me it was immediate with smoking and seearing. When I gave my life to the Lord and was born again of the Spirit I immediately wantd to avoid curses and swear words, smoking I was uncomfortable with. After several months God gave me the answer to my prayer and I ceased smoking without ever having desire again.

This isnt about forcing anything, the truth is the truth. It is all very well referring to how the Christian copes with challenges and temptations, but the LGBT's promotion and defence of homosexuality indicates it is not born again of the Spirit and still still dead in the flesh. The LGBT is very offended at the accusation but thats what the Bible describes in a number of places particualrly concerning sexual immorality.
Believers are fighting a battle against LGBT which is determined to silence the truth.

 

[siomarsh]

I know this isn't entirely related to your post, but as you are posing this question I thought this may interest you.

A friend of mine who is studying psychology at the Australian Catholic University is doing a thesis about the interaction between religiosity and attitude-evaluations towards non-heterosexuality.

If you are interested in participating in his thesis you can go to this link:

http :// research .millisecond .com /leahkaufmann/ experiment. web

You'll just have to take the spaces out. It is legit, it does take some time to complete but you can do what I did, which was take a breather several times during the study.

If you have facebook and want to make sure this isn't a virus or whatever you can go find the source of this thesis by searching - Joel's Psychology Thesis on homophobia.

I'm not allowed to post links coz I am too new to the forums.

Peace and love,

Siobhan

 

[cubinity]

Why is there a need for liberally minded people to have God or The Whole of Christianity to accept Homosexuality?

Why not just be Gay, and shrug off what the bible or church says?

Why do we have to believe what you believe?

For those of you in the Church, do you not understand that even if you can silence what the bible says of homosexuality specifically. that Homosexuality is still considered a sin because at it's core it's sex outside the confines of marriage. Without Book Chapter and verse as to the permissibility of sexual activity outside the confines of a sanctified marriage, special permission for gay sex, or an example of a sanctified same sex marriage. a doctrine that permits homosexuality can not represent the will of God. As a member of the church why do you represent a doctrine that does not represent God? To Whom do you serve if not God? Do you not see a problem with a system of belief that doesn't represent the one you claim to represent? Is a righteousness based in popular morality what you believe to be what dictates the will of God?

The responses I have seen and answered from people who represent themselves as members of the church are, to say the least are the most disheartening.
Especially after their efforts have been brought into the light of scripture.

In so far as a the church is the spiritual bride of Christ, nobody can force it to believe or do anything.

However, in so far as the church is a government sanctioned non-profit institution receiving tax-exeption, it better expect to conform somewhat to the society it claims to be serving.

As far as sexuality goes, I don't know why it involves the church at all. I don't care what the church believes about sex, I'm still gonna have it the way I want to. The church doesn't have anything to do with that. (No disrespect to the church is intended by this statement)

As far as the "light of Scripture" goes, differing schools of theology yield different conclusions. You're not likely to make any real headway with that approach.

Try being relevant if you want to reach an audience outside your particularly persuasion. I haven't yet seen attacks of their ideas work for anyone I know.

 

[Phinehas2]

cubinity,

In so far as a the church is the spiritual bride of Christ, nobody can force it to believe or do anything.

Correct, if it ceased to it would only be a church in human eyes and not in Christ’s

However, in so far as the church is a government sanctioned non-profit institution receiving tax-exeption, it better expect to conform somewhat to the society it claims to be serving.

In which case it would cease to be the church.

As far as sexuality goes, I don't know why it involves the church at all.

Which fits in to the human church rather then the church of Christ.

 

[Ckrismoney]

Some people are scared to stand by the word because they think they are being offensive.

 

[cubinity]

Some people are scared to stand by the word because they think they are being offensive.

And some people stand boldly by the Word, but just have a different interpretation of it than others.

 

[KCKID]

True christians will never accept homosexuality as ok. The bible is clear that it is not and those who know Christ know the bible is true.

You, of all people, should know what 'the criteria' for salvation is as found in John 3:16. Have you actually read it? It says, "those who believe on Jesus Christ will receive salvation." It says nothing about having to be heterosexual in order to believe.

 

[ARBITER01]

No the criteria is that you must be born again, ie ne-newed in spirit from your fallen spirit by the blood of Jesus.

If a person has not received Christ that way, they are not His, no matter how much they want to believe they are a Christian.

There will be a whole lot of gnashing of teeth, as Jesus puts it. GOD is not mocked one bit.

 

[Phinehas2]

Arbiter01 is correct.
I would say in addition
Having faith is Christ, (as in John 3:16) is doing what He says (John 14-17, Matthew 28, James 1) Christ teaches we love Him and follow Him when we do, not when we say we do.
Christ taught one has to be born again of the Spirit. This isn't some Charismatic thing, Jesus taught that the Holy Spirit guides and reminds us of all He taught, anyone agreeing with the Bible has the Spirit.
Thats means the pro-gay LGCM movements are not born again of the Spirit and without the Spirit once cannot please God or see the Kingdom.
The Lesbian and gay Cheistian movement is arguably not a Christian organisation at all, to base a raison d'etre on a specific rejection of God's word and purposes shows more interest in not following than following. The rich young man who wanted to do this with wealth was sent away.

 

[drich0150]

As far as sexuality goes, I don't know why it involves the church at all. I don't care what the church believes about sex, I'm still gonna have it the way I want to. The church doesn't have anything to do with that. (No disrespect to the church is intended by this statement)

The Church is not looking to govern the general population and all of their sexual desires. The Church is looking to provide guidance for those who seek the expressed will of God. This is why the "Church is involved."

The issue comes in when those outside of the will of God want to be included in it, and yet not change their behavior or repent of their sin. So one could ponder why it is the general population has anything to do with where the church stands on sexual behavior.

As far as the "light of Scripture" goes, differing schools of theology yield different conclusions. You're not likely to make any real headway with that approach.

About many different things I could possibly agree. But, When it comes to Christianity Marriage and sex, everyone is united. In that God only allows sexual activity with in the confines of a sanctified marriage. Since a Homosexual relationship can not ever be sanctified through a marriage before God, all Gay sex is to be considered a sin.

Their is "headway" to be made if one chooses to make it.

Try being relevant if you want to reach an audience outside your particularly persuasion. I haven't yet seen attacks of their ideas work for anyone I know.

That's just it. my message is not intended to abolish the homosexual life style outside the church. In truth I don't care what you do if it remains outside the church. My message is directed to reach an audience inside of my particular persuasion. If you will note I did not go to Homosexualfourms,com and started posting my message. If you do not seek God or His will for you life know this message is not for you.

 

[drich0150]

Yes in many cases its a challenge and continues until the lifestyle is conditioned, but of course it can be immediate. for me it was immediate with smoking and seearing. When I gave my life to the Lord and was born again of the Spirit I immediately wanted to avoid curses and swear words, smoking I was uncomfortable with. After several months God gave me the answer to my prayer and I ceased smoking without ever having desire again.

This isn't about forcing anything, the truth is the truth. It is all very well referring to how the Christian copes with challenges and temptations, but the LGBT's promotion and defense of homosexuality indicates it is not born again of the Spirit and still still dead in the flesh. The LGBT is very offended at the accusation but thats what the Bible describes in a number of places particularly concerning sexual immorality.
Believers are fighting a battle against LGBT which is determined to silence the truth.

Why do you think LGBT has limited his postings in this thread?

It's not because he and I are best of friends, and he doesn't want to step on my feelings or faith. He has made his arguments several times in the past, but in short I do not argue the way he wants me to, so he has little to say. It's not that he is scared or can't say anything. He is an angry man with a rough and heart breaking past. He is mad a God and at those who represent Him in a certain way. If one does not provide him with the fuel to feed his anger then he will look else where for the fuel that he seeks to keep that anger going. What I am suggesting is that if "we" deny him this fuel collectively, it will force him (And others like him) to look at what is actually being said, rather than classifying our arguments as not useful, and simply moving on. They will do this If for no other reason that to try and formulate a response. This will in turn force an accountability on them that will result in a change. Whether that be a life style change or Change of venue, they will have absolutely no excuse when they stands before God on their day of judgment. Because in that change they will have acknowledged the message one way or another. If they does not change at all, and we do. then it will be very easy to dismiss their efforts. Either way their is a solution to be found outside of our current collective course.

We are Broadcasters of the good news, and some of us are meant to be harvesters of the crop. None of us are given the task to make it rain, and make that seed grow.

 

[drich0150]

I know this isn't entirely related to your post, but as you are posing this question I thought this may interest you.

A friend of mine who is studying psychology at the Australian Catholic University is doing a thesis about the interaction between religiosity and attitude-evaluations towards non-heterosexuality.

If you are interested in participating in his thesis you can go to this link:

http :// research .millisecond .com /leahkaufmann/ experiment. web

You'll just have to take the spaces out. It is legit, it does take some time to complete but you can do what I did, which was take a breather several times during the study.

If you have facebook and want to make sure this isn't a virus or whatever you can go find the source of this thesis by searching - Joel's Psychology Thesis on homophobia.

I'm not allowed to post links coz I am too new to the forums.

Peace and love,

Siobhan

There are many men more educated than i ever hope to be. If i read his thesis I proably not understand what it was I was reading. Jesus said that He would use the foolish things of this world to present his message. I am the embodiment of the foolish things He spoke of.

If you read it maybe you could translate it for me (In a easy to read version.)

 

[.Iona.]

The church should be accepting of everyone. It is very unchristian like to say gay people cannot be welcomed into a church unless they change who they are. Jesus did not push anyone away, look to Him for answers, don't just follow blindly.

 

[Phinehas2]

Religious Girl,

The church should be accepting of everyone.

No, the church is the body of believers, it cant accept non-believers and atheists etc. You will see from His Biblical testimony that Jesus Christ is accepting of everyone who chooses Him, but not accepting of those who don’t. Christ accepts all people, He doesnt accept their sinful identities.

It is very unchristian like to say gay people cannot be welcomed into a church unless they change who they are.

There is no such thing as gay people in God’s creation. People who identify themselves as gay need to accept God’s purposes and thus their identity in Christ, which means they will no longer be gay people but Christians. Then they can be in the church. God accepts who He has created and comes to Christ, God isnt dictated to by people calling themselves gay and demanding God recognise sin.
The whole pro-gay liberal argument is not just un-Christian but anti-Christian.

 

[.Iona.]

Religious Girl,
No, the church is the body of believers, it cant accept non-believers and atheists etc.

No, if an atheist cam to my church, he would definitely be accepted, welcome and treated with love and kindness. Not told to leave and never come back until he believes the exact same things as me. Refusing to accept someone is completely unchristian. How is that showing the kindness of Jesus?

The whole pro-gay liberal argument is not just un-Christian but anti-Christian.

No, it's accepting people. It's showing compassion and treating my neighbour as I want to treated.

 

[drich0150]

The church should be accepting of everyone. It is very unchristian like to say gay people cannot be welcomed into a church unless they change who they are. Jesus did not push anyone away, look to Him for answers, don't just follow blindly.

So your statement read more accurately:
He didn't push anyone away who was willing to repent of their sin and truly sought God. In Reality Jesus condemned many actions, and told stories of sinners going to Hell if they did not repent. Their was not a blanket acceptance for everyone no matter what.

Look at how He spoke to the Pharisees and makers of the Law. Do not fool yourself. Christ is about Standards and redemption. If one can not reach a standard, then redemption can be found, but only through repentance of sin.

I guess by christian standards, Christ wasn't very christian like. If we are not to "Blindly follow" this means we have to cast off the ideas that do not conform to Christ. Even if they are "christian" in nature.