Forcing the Chruch to accept homosexuality..

[OllieFranz]

Homosexual behavior is a sin.

Here's some criteria per Jesus:

15"If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over.

16But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

- Matthew 18: 15-17

Two questions.

1. How does someone with a romantic attraction toward someone of the same sex sin against you? Where is the harm to you?
2. How should a Christian treat a pagan or a tax collector? How did Jesus treat pagans?(Luke 17:11-19; John 4; Matthew 8; Luke 7) How did He treat tax collectors? (Matthew 9:9-12; Matthew 11:19; Matthew 21:31-32)

 

[OllieFranz]

I see that cubinity has also asked my first question and has pointed to the true Biblical purpose of Jesus' intentions in Matthew 18

 

[wayseer]

Does any of this matter? Really?

 

[drich0150]

That still doesn't say that you were the one being unchristian, does it?

I was speaking in general terms.

I have already shown you that being deemed "Unchristian" has nothing to do with being Un Christ like. According to pop christianity Jesus Himself could be considered "unchristian."

So was I.

 

[ivebeenshown]

Does any of this matter? Really?

Yes.

Revelation 9:
20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

 

[KCKID]

Yes.

Revelation 9:
20And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

While I don't know for sure I would think that all of the above are merely symbolisms for which the book of Revelation is well known. And, it was you who bolded the word 'fornication'. Highlighting a word with bold doesn't suddenly give that word more status than the unbolded. While I realize that you did so with regard to the topic in question I've noticed that folks on this forum do this all the time. Anyway, fornication as used here probably has nothing at all to do with human sex.

 

[Phinehas2]

KCKID,

And, it was you who bolded the word 'fornication'

Nonetheless the word is there and you dispute it again. Your worldview is dominated by completely different understanding of sex from what is written in the Bible.

 

[KCKID]

KCKID,
Nonetheless the word is there and you dispute it again. Your worldview is dominated by completely different understanding of sex from what is written in the Bible.

Why would I? ...fornication in its literal sense would be referring to heterosexuals anyway, certainly not homosexuals. But, in this case the use of fornication is a symbolism probably involving worship of the harlot. I guess, Phinehas, 'the harlot' is also literal ...?

 

[drich0150]

Fornication is not a gender specific term. It just means sex outside the confines of a sanctified marriage by any two persons. Or can represent idolatry.

for·ni·ca·tion

   /ˌfɔr

nɪˈkeɪ

ʃən/ Show Spelled[fawr-ni-key-shuh

n] Show IPA
–noun 1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

2. Bible . idolatry.

 

[Phinehas2]

Fornication is not a gender specific term. It just means sex outside the confines of a sanctified marriage by any two persons. Or can represent idolatry.

Correct, heterosexual and homosexual are not concpets in the Bible. KCKID's argument judges the word of God according to faulty ungodly human concepts.

 

[.Iona.]

It typically refers to hetreosexuals, although has been used as a blanket term in the OT to cover all sexual activity that were considered unrighteous, despite that - the actual definition is unclear.

In modern English, fornication is a term that typically refers to consensual sexual intercourse between unmarried heterosexual adults, or between people who are not of marriagable age (minors), or between persons who are not in a stable committed relationship.

In English translations of the Bible, in the New Testament, πορνεία (porneia) is accused of being translated incorrectly,[4][citation needed] that is into English as fornication rather than its alleged truer meaning of sexual immorality. In Biblical Greek, the word porneia meant "sexual immorality" or "sexual perversions." It was often used as a blanket term to encompass all sexual activity and even sexual thoughts (i.e. sexual lust/fantasies) that were considered unrighteous by the Old Testament laws of Leviticus, in particular Leviticus 18, including: incest, bestiality, and homosexuality, but see also Biblical law in Christianity.

 

[drich0150]

It typically refers to hetreosexuals, although has been used as a blanket term in the OT to cover all sexual activity that were considered unrighteous, despite that - the actual definition is unclear.

If you read your own definitions and couple them with how they are used in the context of scripture the definition become perfectly clear.

Sex Outside The Confines Of A Sanctified Marriage.(Physically or in lustful thought) Also It Is Very Clear That It Isn't A Gender Specific Term.

The only reason any would be confused with any of this is because they choose to be, most likely for the sake of a weak argument to suit their personal version of righteousness.

 

[.Iona.]

If you read your own definitions and couple them with how they are used in the context of scripture the definition become perfectly clear.

Sex Outside The Confines Of A Sanctified Marriage.(Physically or in lustful thought) Also It Is Very Clear That It Isn't A Gender Specific Term.

The only reason any would be confused with any of this is because they choose to be, most likely for the sake of a weak argument to suit their personal version of righteousness.

If you read the factual definitions you will too see that the translation isn't what you thought it was. It has been assigned to Christianity to mean something that it typically isn't. I don't see what is so hard to understand. It says it is typically used for heterosexuals, but in the Bible it refers to all sexual immorality. I think that is pretty clear.

 

[KCKID]

Correct, heterosexual and homosexual are not concpets in the Bible. KCKID's argument judges the word of God according to faulty ungodly human concepts.

If you can get a grip on yourself for a moment ...all I'm saying and nothing else is that fornication in this particular instance does not suggest 'sex' at all. It was therefore 1. dishonest or ignorant (as in lack of understanding) of the poster to present it as such - and to apply it to homosexuality no less! - and, 2. deceitful of you, Phinehas, for perpetuating the dishonesty or ignorance of the poster simply as support for your own particular hateful agenda.

 

[KCKID]

If you read your own definitions and couple them with how they are used in the context of scripture the definition become perfectly clear.

Sex Outside The Confines Of A Sanctified Marriage.(Physically or in lustful thought) Also It Is Very Clear That It Isn't A Gender Specific Term.

The only reason any would be confused with any of this is because they choose to be, most likely for the sake of a weak argument to suit their personal version of righteousness.

The only ones that I see brandishing their own personal version of righteousness are those who Bible-bash gays or anyone else they perceive as being 'beneath them' in the righteous department. The very Bible that they bash others with quite clearly states that NONE are righteous ...no, NOT ONE!

 

[onemorequestion]

Two questions.

1. How does someone with a romantic attraction toward someone of the same sex sin against you? Where is the harm to you?
2. How should a Christian treat a pagan or a tax collector? How did Jesus treat pagans?(Luke 17:11-19; John 4; Matthew 8; Luke 7) How did He treat tax collectors? (Matthew 9:9-12; Matthew 11:19; Matthew 21:31-32)

1) Tries to say that every Christian is celebrating homosexuality when liberalism is trumpeted as if it were truth. It makes the Gospel of Jesus just another club.

2) As Jesus indicates, utterly ignore tham and live your life preaching the Gospel corctly. ONLY, when they try to enter the Church or go after our children and fellow Christians are then supposed to be contended against them.

I'd like to know how and why you think you can support and celebrate with pagans in their anti-Christian endeavors? There is absoluetly no doubt that the support liberalism gives to pagans et al, is seen as absolute approval of them and their ways.

Jesus treated pagans politely but never celebrated their behaviors and beliefs. And never wanted his followers to be like them.

 

[onemorequestion]

The only ones that I see brandishing their own personal version of righteousness are those who Bible-bash gays or anyone else they perceive as being 'beneath them' in the righteous department. The very Bible that they bash others with quite clearly states that NONE are righteous ...no, NOT ONE!

Agreed. Now only if we could get liberalism OUT of the holier-than-thou campaign against anyone that dares challenge its supremecy over anything and everything else.

 

[onemorequestion]

If you can get a grip on yourself for a moment ...all I'm saying and nothing else is that fornication in this particular instance does not suggest 'sex' at all. It was therefore 1. dishonest or ignorant (as in lack of understanding) of the poster to present it as such - and to apply it to homosexuality no less! - and, 2. deceitful of you, Phinehas, for perpetuating the dishonesty or ignorance of the poster simply as support for your own particular hateful agenda.

Marriage is a man and a woman. Per Jesus.

Fornication is sex outside of marriage.

The dishonesty is from the side that demands to redefine marriage.

Now who is selling the hateful agenda again?

It seems, according to the Christian morality as written in the New Testament . . . that it is the people calling themselves Christians but acting exactly as the world does.

 

[onemorequestion]

Fornication is not a gender specific term.

Words meanings are negotiable in liberalism. It just depends on what cool crowd is doing what when.

It just means sex outside the confines of a sanctified marriage by any two persons.

Marriage per Jesus and Adam (and Adam's God), is a man and a woman.

Or can represent idolatry.

THAT IS THE ISSUE.

Play it again Sam:

for·ni·ca·tion


–noun 1. voluntary sexual intercourse between two unmarried persons or two persons not married to each other.

2. Bible . idolatry. [/quote]

 

[KCKID]

Marriage is a man and a woman. Per Jesus.

Obviously not. Some people don't want to marry someone of the opposite sex simply because the chemistry is not there. Why is this so difficult for you to grasp?

Fornication is sex outside of marriage.

But, having said that you would deny a gay couple from marrying and therefore perpetuate this definition of fornication?

The dishonesty is from the side that demands to redefine marriage.

We were given the God-given freedom to redefine whatever it is we want to redefine. Isn't that great?

Now who is selling the hateful agenda again?

I dunno. I'm one of the sweetest guys you could ever wish to meet. Everybody loves me.

It seems, according to the Christian morality as written in the New Testament . . . that it is the people calling themselves Christians but acting exactly as the world does.

Yes, so you keep saying. It's too bad that we're all mere mortals who just so happen to live in the world. And, for all its faults, the world is still a pretty good place to be. Life is what we make it. For some who tend to live in a bubble of religiosity, however, I can imagine how terrible it must be living on the same planet with the likes of the rest of us. it seems like heaven can't come quick enough for some of you. Just hang in there and I'm sure you'll all get your just deserts given time. I trust it will be what you believe you deserve.