Should Revelations be studied?

[bugkiller]

Notice also in the same chapter, that those who do not accept the mark will have a law passed allowing for them to be killed. Do you really think that people who don't want this implant will be labeled for death? And how will this chip have anything to do with worship? If anything you're making a stronger case for our stance. Take note if you will that within Christianity there are two days that are considered sacred. Saturday by one group, and Sunday by another. These are days of worship. Now how do you figure that by me accepting or not accepting this implant that I am giving worship to the beast?

I am sorry that you missed my point. Indeed what you say is true about the passing of a law to kill Christians. But I don't read it is because they keep the sabbath. It is because they refuse to worship the beast. It mentions nothing about the sabbath.

I think this chip is a precursser to the mark of the beast. If this chip can keep you from medical benefits it can also keep you from buying and selling later.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say:
"Come out of her, my people,
so that you will not share in her sins,
so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

You can't come out of something if you haven't been in it.

QFT!

2 Corin 6:17 wherefore come-forth out of midst of them! and be being separated! is saying Lord
and an unclean-thing no ye be touching! and I shall be accepting ye

Revelation 18:4 And I hear another voice out of the heaven saying "come forth! out of Her the people of Me.....

2 Corin 6 and the "them" question - Christian Forums
2 Corin 6 and the "them" question

 

[Stryder06]

I am sorry that you missed my point. Indeed what you say is true about the passing of a law to kill Christians. But I don't read it is because they keep the sabbath. It is because they refuse to worship the beast. It mentions nothing about the sabbath.

I think this chip is a precursser to the mark of the beast. If this chip can keep you from medical benefits it can also keep you from buying and selling later.

bugkiller

I didn't miss your point. And it doesn't have to say sabbath, but that's a different issue. I'm more interested in understanding how a physical chip can be associated with worship?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I didn't miss your point. And it doesn't have to say sabbath, but that's a different issue. I'm more interested in understanding how a physical chip can be associated with worship?

From what I see, there are a lot of threads on the Escatology Guru Board concerning the "chip"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7416700/
Do you believe the RFID chip could be the Mark of the Beast?

 

[bugkiller]

I didn't miss your point. And it doesn't have to say sabbath, but that's a different issue. I'm more interested in understanding how a physical chip can be associated with worship?

The mark of the beast has nothing to do with worship. Those who take the mark of the beast will worship the beast though.

I think you ar hung on the wrong thing concerning the mark of the beast.

bugkiller

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The mark of the beast has nothing to do with worship. Those who take the mark of the beast will worship the beast though.

I think you ar hung on the wrong thing concerning the mark of the beast.

bugkiller

The SDAs have a view on that also

http://www.christianforums.com/t6982465-107/#post44368491
Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast?

*snip OP"

Is Sunday worship the mark of the beast? I am becoming convinced that the 7th day adventists might be right about this after all

 

[Stryder06]

The mark of the beast has nothing to do with worship. Those who take the mark of the beast will worship the beast though.

I think you are hung on the wrong thing concerning the mark of the beast.

bugkiller

Rev 13:15 So here's the verse: He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

So we see that those who do not worship the beast will have a decree issued against them allowing for them to be killed. Thus we know that if you don't worship the beast, you won't have his mark. The two are one in the same.

Now let's draw a parallel here to see what this mark has to deal with.

Deut 6:6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts... 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads (NIV)

Deut 11:18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads

Taking a look at these verses we can see that the beast is implementing the same type of mechanic with his mark. Notice also the the beast's mark it is forced. Going on the hand or in the head is symbolic of belief or works (you think with your mind/work with your hands). Notice also that it is either or. You can willingly submit your mind, or you can disagree, but go along with it anyway. It doesn't have to be both.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*

16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead,

Taking a look at these verses we can see that the beast is implementing the same type of mechanic with his mark. Notice also the the beast's mark it is forced. Going on the hand or in the head is symbolic of belief or works (you think with your mind/work with your hands). Notice also that it is either or. You can willingly submit your mind, or you can disagree, but go along with it anyway. It doesn't have to be both.

Is that anything akin to being "branded"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7448114-12/#post54283622

 

[Stryder06]

YouTube - Mark of the beast Explained

 

[bugkiller]

Rev 13:15 So here's the verse: He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

So we see that those who do not worship the beast will have a decree issued against them allowing for them to be killed. Thus we know that if you don't worship the beast, you won't have his mark. The two are one in the same.

Now let's draw a parallel here to see what this mark has to deal with.

Deut 6:6 These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts... 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads (NIV)

Deut 11:18 Fix these words of mine in your hearts and minds; tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads

Taking a look at these verses we can see that the beast is implementing the same type of mechanic with his mark. Notice also the the beast's mark it is forced. Going on the hand or in the head is symbolic of belief or works (you think with your mind/work with your hands). Notice also that it is either or. You can willingly submit your mind, or you can disagree, but go along with it anyway. It doesn't have to be both.

My understanding is that indeed the Israelites had little boxes that they did tie on their wrist (considered the hand) or the same idea that they bound them on their forehead.

Your parallel is a good tie in with the idea. I agree that it will be either or. Have you seen George Orwell's movie 1984? It is a big brother type movie. Even if it is science fiction, it would be worth your time. The difference for me is that with the beast there will be no choice. I do not know where these chips for the health care bill will be placed. It will be somewhere that is readily accessable in a public setting. The concept fits right in with not being able to buy or sell. The mark of the beast has nothing to do with worship. It is incidental, that is those who have the mark of the beast will also worship him. The mark is tied to commerce not worship in my Bible even as you quoted above.

bugkiller

 

[Stryder06]

My understanding is that indeed the Israelites had little boxes that they did tie on their wrist (considered the hand) or the same idea that they bound them on their forehead.

Well they did and do bind those things to their hands and foreheads, but I think you are purposefully missing the point. Having it bound to them didn't put it in them, which is where it was suppose to go. In other words, their physical "mark" did not accurately declare who their allegiance was given to, but their hearts, and actions did.

Your parallel is a good tie in with the idea. I agree that it will be either or. Have you seen George Orwell's movie 1984? It is a big brother type movie. Even if it is science fiction, it would be worth your time. The difference for me is that with the beast there will be no choice. I do not know where these chips for the health care bill will be placed. It will be somewhere that is readily accessable in a public setting. The concept fits right in with not being able to buy or sell. The mark of the beast has nothing to do with worship. It is incidental, that is those who have the mark of the beast will also worship him. The mark is tied to commerce not worship in my Bible even as you quoted above.
bugkiller

I don't see the two as being separate. If you worship the beast, you'll have his mark. If you don't you won't. You won't worship the beast and be unable to buy or sell, conversely, you won't buy and sell but not have the mark.

Now suffice it to say that I believe their will be some kind of physical medium through which they determine who can or cannot buy or sell, but that will only come after the mark has been accepted or rejected. And no I have not seen the movie you spoke of. My wife gives me enough Big Brother conspiracy plots to consider.

 

[brinny]

Is that anything akin to being "branded"

http://www.christianforums.com/t7448114-12/#post54283622

interesting comparison......wow, never thought of it like that....branded, as in "ownership", eh?

 

[Fireinfolding]

interesting comparison......wow, never thought of it like that....branded, as in "ownership", eh?

I wonder if it can be seen this way...

Luke 20:24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.

Luke 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

We are owned (bought with a price) and are God's

1Cr 6:2 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rev13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

 

[brinny]

I wonder if it can be seen this way...

Luke 20:24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.

Luke 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

We are owned (bought with a price) and are God's

1Cr 6:2 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

Luke 16:13 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rev13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Whoa! Yes, God DOES talk about ownership. He seals us praise His name, therefore we are "branded" by Him. But woe to those who are not, for they will be branded by the enemy, and don't realize this.

Remember cain? God put a "seal" on his forehead....ok, i'm not sure where i'm going with this, because he wasn't righteous. But God was protecting him anyway....whoa, that's sumthin' to munch on, isn't it?

I'm just gonna praise God now, because i am thankful i have HIS stamp on me. .

 

[Fireinfolding]

Whoa! Yes, God DOES talk about ownership. He seals us praise His name, therefore we are "branded" by Him. But woe to those who are not, for they will be branded by the enemy, and don't realize this.

Remember cain? God put a "seal" on his forehead....ok, i'm not sure where i'm going with this, because he wasn't righteous. But God was protecting him anyway....whoa, that's sumthin' to munch on, isn't it?

I'm just gonna praise God now, because i am thankful i have HIS stamp on me. .

Yesh God put a mark on Cain that no one who found him would kill him

1) sign, signal
a) a distinguishing mark
b) banner
c) remembrance
d) miraculous sign
e) omen
f) warning
2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof

And also mark them which cause divisions and avoid them

1) to look at, observe, contemplate
2) to mark
3) to fix one's eyes upon, direct one's attention to, any one
4) to look to, take heed to thyself

Then there is the mark one receives of the beast in the forehead (which pertains to the name of the beast, or the number of his name equated to the number of man

1) a stamp, an imprinted mark
a) of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
b) the mark branded upon horses
2) thing carved, sculpture, graven work
a) of idolatrous images

The seal of God in their foreheads (pertains to the Fathers name)

1) a seal
a) the seal placed upon books
b) a signet ring
c) the inscription or impression made by a seal
1) of the name of God and Christ stamped upon their foreheads
d) that by which anything is confirmed, proved, authenticated, as by a seal (a token or proof)

There is what is called a "manifest token" or "token" or "sign" even as the children of God and the children of the devil are made manifest.

 

[brinny]

Yesh God put a mark on Cain that no one who found him would kill him

1) sign, signal
a) a distinguishing mark
b) banner
c) remembrance
d) miraculous sign
e) omen
f) warning
2) token, ensign, standard, miracle, proof

And also mark them which cause divisions and avoid them

1) to look at, observe, contemplate
2) to mark
3) to fix one's eyes upon, direct one's attention to, any one
4) to look to, take heed to thyself

Then there is the mark one receives of the beast in the forehead (which pertains to the name of the beast, or the number of his name equated to the number of man

1) a stamp, an imprinted mark
a) of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
b) the mark branded upon horses
2) thing carved, sculpture, graven work
a) of idolatrous images

The seal of God in their foreheads (pertains to the Fathers name)

1) a seal
a) the seal placed upon books
b) a signet ring
c) the inscription or impression made by a seal
1) of the name of God and Christ stamped upon their foreheads
d) that by which anything is confirmed, proved, authenticated, as by a seal (a token or proof)

There is what is called a "manifest token" or "token" or "sign" even as the children of God and the children of the devil are made manifest.

how does any of this fit in with Cain, i wonder....wonder why God protected Cain?

getting back to the topic...these seals are visible only in the spirit realm, i wonder...and "seal" reminds me of what a king puts on something that indicates authenticity, like his seal on a leter, a document....

this is fascinating.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I wonder if it can be seen this way...

Luke 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
.

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

John 19:15 Those yet Cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
Is Pilate is saying to them t "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.....................

 

[Fireinfolding]

how does any of this fit in with Cain, i wonder....wonder why God protected Cain?

getting back to the topic...these seals are visible only in the spirit realm, i wonder...and "seal" reminds me of what a king puts on something that indicates authenticity, like his seal on a leter, a document....

this is fascinating.

You ask the same questions I do brinny, even Cain first says (being hid from Gods face) I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond (made to wander as the Israelites were made to do the same in the wilderness) but he in the earth. And it would come to pass anyone who found him would slay him. So God sets a mark on him lest any finding him slay Cain, that he would suffer vengence seven times.

Brinny you can sorta regard it many ways, but not all fit perfectly, like, I cant see how one can buy or sell (spiritually speaking) unless it pertains to buy the truth and sell it not and even then it doesnt fit because of who we buy it from (buy of me)... Then theres the buying and selling in the temple, and speaks of the merchandise there but also whats spoken of concerning others making merchandise of you (through feigned words)

I must have a study running it so many ways that is well over a 100 pages long. Like the right hand, and running it as it could be spiritually speaking, even as the apostles perceived (spiritually speaking) the grace of God in the Paul and gave them the right hands of fellowship. They which share "the mind of Christ" (or the Fathers name in their foreheads) verses the other (etc etc) My notes studying these things are so long I have completely given up posting on it because theres too much to consider let alone adress and still scratching my head LOL

But I have considered all the same as Stryder points out and much more. I get parts and pieces but Im not convinced yet I understand anything. If they done link together perfectly like putting together a puzzle I just say, "dont fit" with these other things (need to discard)

So, Nope, there is no wisdom in me if he that hath wisdom is to understand these things LOL

 

[Fireinfolding]

http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Lazarus

John 19:15 Those yet Cry-out "take-away! take-away! crucify! Him".
Is Pilate is saying to them t "the King of ye I shall be crucifying?".
Answered the Chief-priests "not we are having a King except Caesar"

Revelation 14:11 And the Smoke of the tormenting of Them is ascending into Ages to-Ages.....................

I was going to post that as an example only but I refrained because I thought I would need to answer for it

 

[brinny]

You ask the same questions I do brinny, even Cain first says (being hid from Gods face) I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond (made to wander as the Israelites were made to do the same in the wilderness) but he in the earth. And it would come to pass anyone who found him would slay him. So God sets a mark on him lest any finding him slay Cain, that he would suffer vengence seven times.

Brinny you can sorta regard it many ways, but not all fit perfectly, like, I cant see how one can buy or sell (spiritually speaking) unless it pertains to buy the truth and sell it not and even then it doesnt fit because of who we buy it from (buy of me)... Then theres the buying and selling in the temple, and speaks of the merchandise there but also whats spoken of concerning others making merchandise of you (through feigned words)

I must have a study running it so many ways that is well over a 100 pages long. Like the right hand, and running it as it could be spiritually speaking, even as the apostles perceived (spiritually speaking) the grace of God in the Paul and gave them the right hands of fellowship. They which share "the mind of Christ" (or the Fathers name in their foreheads) verses the other (etc etc) My notes studying these things are so long I have completely given up posting on it because theres too much to consider let alone adress and still scratching my head LOL

But I have considered all the same as Stryder points out and much more. I get parts and pieces but Im not convinced yet I understand anything. If they done link together perfectly like putting together a puzzle I just say, "dont fit" with these other things (need to discard)

So, Nope, there is no wisdom in me if he that hath wisdom is to understand these things LOL

Whoa! The deeper one goes, the more mind-boggling it is...

do ya think God preserved Cain because he was meant to have children (descendants) etc?