Why do people have a problem with prosperity teachings?

[dkbwarrior]

I don't know if I would necessarily say that chastening and rebuke are 'tools' per-se...

Very wise stement...

As we know, money is the root of all kinds of evil - and obviously God knows this as well -

I would disagree with this, a common misquote of the verse in question. Money is not the root of any evil, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil, and Paul goes on to describe this as covetousness. Money itself is simply an object, a tool, it has no moral character.

9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
-1 Timothy 6:9-10

Saying that money is the root of all evil because people lust after it, is like saying that woman is the root of all evil because men lust after women. It is not money that is evil, nor is it woman that is evil, it is lust that is the root of all evil, in whatever guise it takes.

so why would he give it to someone whom he knows cannot handled it? He would be setting them up for spiritual failure if he did.

Not trying to be argumentative here, just informative; after all this is the WoF forum, so let me clarify WoF position on this.

God is not in heaven deciding who is going to get healed, or who is going to get saved, or who is going to prosper and by how much. God has already given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of the great and precious promises that were purchased for us by the shed blood of His Son on the cross.

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
-2 Peter 1:2-4

God hath given, past tense. God has already provided everything that we could ever ask or think, through the promises of the covenant. He is not witholding wealth from us for some greater reason, nor is He witholding healing or any other blessing from us; either to teach us something, or because we are not ready. It is there, in the covenant. It is our priviledge to seek it out and believe it and receive it. In fact, it is our calling, and it is how we establish His covenant on this earth.

That is truth.

However, in practical terms, excercising ones faith doesn't happen in a vaccuum. There are prerequisites such as walking in love, forgiveness, and being free of condemnation, worry and fear. Because none of us are perfected yet in the flesh or the soul (mind, will and emotions), all of our faith is hindered to some degree by our level of developement in these areas. This means that in reality, until one is ready for wealth, one will not be able to adequately excercise faith for it. This is not God withholding it, but rather our own limitations of conscience and condemnation.

Now, one may aquire wealth in other ways, outside of faith, but if one cannot believe God for it, then there is a good possibility that such wealth when it comes will do more harm than good. I do not envy such a man.

I would say that it is very mature of you, being someone who is not currently prospering financially to understand this. When I was in your shoes, I knew that I was missing it somewhere but it took me a very long time to understand that God is more concerned with our spiritual well being then our financial prosperity. I thought that I just didn't "have enough faith to make the 100 fold return manifest" haha.

This is another wise statement.

I did learn though, that while the Lord did not promise to prosper us financially (although he wants to be able to), he did promise to always meet our needs, and in my own life I have seen this to be true.

I disagree. It is God that gives us the power to get wealth:

18But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
-Deuteronomy 8:18

God is no respecter of persons. Therefore, He isn't giving this to some, and withholding it from others. He gives us all the power to get wealth.

This is part of the blessing of Abraham, ie., the covenant of promises that God gave to Abraham and his seed. And those that are in Chirst are the seed of Abraham, and heirs according to the promise of the blessing of Abraham:

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
-Galatians 3:26-29

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
-Galatians 3:13-14

All things that the Father has have been given to Christ, and all things that Christ has have been given to His body. As He is, so are we in this world.

Peace...

 

[lismore]

It seems that in the church world as a whole, we can see grace in every aspect of the gospel except in the area of giving....

Hi There

Having seen finances from the other end, been involved in the treasury ministry in two different fellowships, there is a lot of frustration, worry and uncertainty for the church treasurer.

Running a sizeable building is not cheap. Bills must be paid. Wages and rents must be paid or the pastors will desert to another, wealthier church. If the heatings not on in the church, or if the biscuits and cakes are not tasty enough some members will go somewhere else, another church with more lavish surroundings. Sometimes the treasurer has sleepless nights wondering where the money is going to come from.

With faith teachings it's easier to fall into the temptation for the church to spend beyond it's means.............at the end of the day it's the church members who will have to pay any shortfall...........and it will hit the poorest members hardest.

Enough churches have gone bust to show that there is not a supernatural safety net at the bottom. Besides, would it not be a bad witness for a faith church not to be able to pay it's bills? Where's the faith then?

The AOG church I left in 2007, I was helping the treasurer, she made herself ill and left the church through money worries. The pastor was spending more than what was coming in and he was a pompous hyper-faith man who couldnt be reasoned with.

It's sometimes very difficult to bring grace into the church treasury.When Grace doesn't pay the bills, I wouldn't judge a treasurer for going frantic trying to pay them, legalism, cajolery. I understand the worries that person has.

Overall, these days I think governments, churches and individuals are living beyond their means. The current financial debt crisis shows this. We have become materially obsessed and are using more than what we need to get by.

More austerity and humility would do some people a lot of good.

 

[visionary]

Never live beyond your means.. and always have faith that God will provide.. And when He provides live in the means He provided.

 

[dkbwarrior]

Overall, these days I think governments, churches and individuals are living beyond their means. The current financial debt crisis shows this. We have become materially obsessed and are using more than what we need to get by.

More austerity and humility would do some people a lot of good.

I agree. We have spent the last couple of years reducing our debt, and getting our lives to where we are living off of what we make and have without having to borrow. We are almost there now.

It is fun to give now, not thinking we are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Peace...

 

[bloodbought09]

Never live beyond your means.. and always have faith that God will provide.. And when He provides live in the means He provided.

That is a good steward. If you are faithful with a little, you can be faithful with much. If He can trust you with the filthy mammon, then He can trust you with the true riches of the kingdom.

 

[bloodbought09]

Sowing is a part of preaching the gospel. Just as much as righteous living, fruit of the spirit, forgiveness, healing, b.o.t.s, joy, giving ourselves to others in service, etc. It's all part of preaching the gospel. If you overfocus on one teaching, then clearly that is wrong.

True. This reminds me of going to the left and to the right. Our path is a straight path. When the word of God is twisted by judases to put money into the coffer of the gospel of prosperity, then this is wrong. I agree with sowing into good soil, and that involves our own heart being good soil first. So, it is good to sow into the gospel of grace, to a life of righteousness in His lifeblood. A place where the rightly divided word of God is preached that will wash us clean. Even drug dealers can prosper for a season, but then see the end result of that. No one gains from ill gotten gain.

 

[map4]

Hi There

Having seen finances from the other end, been involved in the treasury ministry in two different fellowships, there is a lot of frustration, worry and uncertainty for the church treasurer.

Running a sizeable building is not cheap. Bills must be paid. Wages and rents must be paid or the pastors will desert to another, wealthier church. If the heatings not on in the church, or if the biscuits and cakes are not tasty enough some members will go somewhere else, another church with more lavish surroundings. Sometimes the treasurer has sleepless nights wondering where the money is going to come from.

With faith teachings it's easier to fall into the temptation for the church to spend beyond it's means.............at the end of the day it's the church members who will have to pay any shortfall...........and it will hit the poorest members hardest.

Enough churches have gone bust to show that there is not a supernatural safety net at the bottom. Besides, would it not be a bad witness for a faith church not to be able to pay it's bills? Where's the faith then?

The AOG church I left in 2007, I was helping the treasurer, she made herself ill and left the church through money worries. The pastor was spending more than what was coming in and he was a pompous hyper-faith man who couldnt be reasoned with.

It's sometimes very difficult to bring grace into the church treasury.When Grace doesn't pay the bills, I wouldn't judge a treasurer for going frantic trying to pay them, legalism, cajolery. I understand the worries that person has.

Overall, these days I think governments, churches and individuals are living beyond their means. The current financial debt crisis shows this. We have become materially obsessed and are using more than what we need to get by.

More austerity and humility would do some people a lot of good.

It's really sad that things like this happen in a church. this is one of the reasons the so-called prosperity teahcings get such a bad rap. Whether this pastor was wof, AoG, Baptist or whatever, it seems either his motives were wrong or he was an extremely poor steward.
Sadly, there are many like him or those whose sole focus is on money.

I have had quite the opposite experience. As I stated earlier, both pastors that have been at my church graduated from Rhema, so, although technically we are a non-denom charasmatic church, most would consider us wof. When the current pastor came about 11 years ago we still owed money on our church building. He is a good steward of money. We not only did slight remodeling, we also paid off the loan in a fews years. Sooner than it should have been. Also, he worked another job for several years...he was putting 2 kids through college. Finally, we, as a body, wanted him to become a full time pastor. We are not a large church either. But we wanted him to have more time to be a pastor so we helped make it possible for him to do that.

We have been taught 'how to give', so to speak. We are a very giving church. We don't 'give to get', but we understand sowing and reaping; it is more blessed to give than to receive; and we know God will bless us. But that is not the main reason we give. We just know that He will provide.
We've had many preachers come to our church. We love to give to them when they do. Time after time we are told that they have been to churches with many more people than ours and we give more than the larger ones. They seem amazed sometimes because we are small (maybe around 75 people or so).
I'm not meaning to brag, it's just that some of us ARE taught prosperity the 'right' way. We don't have 'rich' people in our church. We just see giving as an act of worship. And we have testimony after testimony of God meeting our needs. Better jobs, raises, tuition paid for, a car was given to a member, and many more.

 

[lismore]

He is a good steward of money.

That's a good point and I think it's the key.

Whether the church is AOG, WOF Baptist or whatever, good stewardship is needed.

IMO prosperity is more about teaching people how to handle money, how to budget, how to get a job. If your income is x then your expenses can't be more than x.

 

[mattmaherstory]

The reason that some people probably have a problem with the prosperity teachings is perhaps because it has been used for wrong reasons . It has been misused by well known TV evangelists or other pastors to portray worldly wealth as a drawing factor. As we know, Jesus did not place value on worldly wealth as he did spiritual wealth. Matt 6:19-20 "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal." Its all about the heart. Money is not evil in itself; however, it should definitely not be the focus or the reason to become a Christian. If you became a Christian to get rich (monetarily) than you are in it for the wrong reasons!

 

[Aaron the Tall]

I have seen another attitude, it's okay to be rich as long as YOU earned it by the sweat of your brow (work) its not a promise from God its Your own hard work...............you become your own God in regards to taking care of your needs.

Wow, that's a powerful response. It is such a human temptation to want to be in control of all aspects of our life. We feel more comfortable relying on our own righteousness than trusting in God for his. I can see the same thing with people wanting to trust their own hands to provide, rather than God's

 

[Jedi.Kep]

Another reason people have a problem with prosperity is simply that they are not mature enough to handle money. Pastor's begin teaching prosperity and like little kids, the sheep start dreaming of bigger cars, houses and thing they can buy with their extra money rather than think about the souls they can save, the missionaries they can fund, the buildings they can build for God to house God's people, the people they can clothe, the people they can feed, and the people they can help out of poverty.

Nothing wrong with having prosperity. Everything wrong with prosperity having you.

 

[DianeL]

Nothing wrong with having prosperity. Everything wrong with prosperity having you.

This is quotable

I can't remember where I heard this, but someone had said "If you want to find out if something 'has' you, give it away".

 

[donnamabob]

Very wise stement...



I would disagree with this, a common misquote of the verse in question. Money is not the root of any evil, it is the love of money that is the root of all evil, and Paul goes on to describe this as covetousness. Money itself is simply an object, a tool, it has no moral character.

9But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
-1 Timothy 6:9-10

Saying that money is the root of all evil because people lust after it, is like saying that woman is the root of all evil because men lust after women. It is not money that is evil, nor is it woman that is evil, it is lust that is the root of all evil, in whatever guise it takes.



Not trying to be argumentative here, just informative; after all this is the WoF forum, so let me clarify WoF position on this.

God is not in heaven deciding who is going to get healed, or who is going to get saved, or who is going to prosper and by how much. God has already given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of the great and precious promises that were purchased for us by the shed blood of His Son on the cross.

2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
-2 Peter 1:2-4

God hath given, past tense. God has already provided everything that we could ever ask or think, through the promises of the covenant. He is not witholding wealth from us for some greater reason, nor is He witholding healing or any other blessing from us; either to teach us something, or because we are not ready. It is there, in the covenant. It is our priviledge to seek it out and believe it and receive it. In fact, it is our calling, and it is how we establish His covenant on this earth.

That is truth.

However, in practical terms, excercising ones faith doesn't happen in a vaccuum. There are prerequisites such as walking in love, forgiveness, and being free of condemnation, worry and fear. Because none of us are perfected yet in the flesh or the soul (mind, will and emotions), all of our faith is hindered to some degree by our level of developement in these areas. This means that in reality, until one is ready for wealth, one will not be able to adequately excercise faith for it. This is not God withholding it, but rather our own limitations of conscience and condemnation.

Now, one may aquire wealth in other ways, outside of faith, but if one cannot believe God for it, then there is a good possibility that such wealth when it comes will do more harm than good. I do not envy such a man.



This is another wise statement.



I disagree. It is God that gives us the power to get wealth:

18But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.
-Deuteronomy 8:18

God is no respecter of persons. Therefore, He isn't giving this to some, and withholding it from others. He gives us all the power to get wealth.

This is part of the blessing of Abraham, ie., the covenant of promises that God gave to Abraham and his seed. And those that are in Chirst are the seed of Abraham, and heirs according to the promise of the blessing of Abraham:

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
-Galatians 3:26-29

13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
-Galatians 3:13-14

All things that the Father has have been given to Christ, and all things that Christ has have been given to His body. As He is, so are we in this world.

Peace...

Well, this makes a lot of sense, but how do you know that financial prosperity pertains unto life and godliness? And if he already gave us wealth, then why do we need the power to get wealth?

Thanks

 

[ziggy29]

I never really understood the passage in 1 Timothy 6:10 where it's said "love of money is the root of all evil." Rape is a rather evil thing, and what does it have to do with money or the love of money?

 

[lismore]

I never really understood the passage in 1 Timothy 6:10 where it's said "love of money is the root of all evil." Rape is a rather evil thing, and what does it have to do with money or the love of money?

In other versions is says 'the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil'.

 

[lucaspa]

What I mean is that there are those who reject prosperity teachings not because they are unbiblical, but because they don't trust other human beings (and themselves really) with doctrine so wonderful. I would love to hear others' thoughts on this matter.

I am curious. How does Mark 10:25, Matt 19:14, and Luke 18:25: "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." fit into the "prosperity teachings"?

Add to my question Luke 6:20 and Luke 6:24: "And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed [be ye] poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. ... But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation."

 

[graceNpeace]

I am curious. How does Mark 10:25, Matt 19:14, and Luke 18:25: "24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! ." fit into the "prosperity teachings"?

Its similar to the passage about money in and of itself not being evil, but rather that the love of money is the problem.

If you back up a verse from Mark 10:25, you will see the answer:

24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Per verse 24, verse 25 could read as......25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a man who trusts in his riches to enter into the kingdom of God.

We are to always trust God, not our riches.

 

[lucaspa]

Its similar to the passage about money in and of itself not being evil, but rather that the love of money is the problem.

If you back up a verse from Mark 10:25, you will see the answer:

24And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!

Per verse 24, verse 25 could read as......25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a man who trusts in his riches to enter into the kingdom of God.

Thank you for the explanation. Can we back up yet another verse? Mark 10:23 says: "And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God! "

Is that about "trusts in his riches" or just about having riches?

How about the verses from Luke?

 

[Jedi.Kep]

I never really understood the passage in 1 Timothy 6:10 where it's said "love of money is the root of all evil." Rape is a rather evil thing, and what does it have to do with money or the love of money?

I think the poster above you connected the dots well. The love of money is nothing more than covetousness. Covetousness is the root of all evil. According to Webster, Covet means "to desire enviously that which belongs to another." A rapist clearly desires enviously that which belongs to another. It ain't their's, but they will take it anyway. That applies to many more areas than just money.

 

[probinson]

Mark 10:23 (AMP)
And Jesus looked around and said to His disciples, With what difficulty will those who possess wealth and keep on holding it enter the kingdom of God!
​

In today's vernacular, I think we might say that what Jesus was talking about was those whose wealth had them.

Or IOW, those who are trusting in their riches.