Astrophysics: what is / was the firmament made out of?

[Hespera]

..
What?

You could ask Juv. about that one. he went on for great lengths earlier about how "a plant is not a life", for the reason, I think that if a plant is alive (what he calls "a life") then there was death in his Garden and that messes things up.

 

[Split Rock]

God continuously gives me many new understandings almost on a daily basis (yes, include the issues of plant, music, bacteria, etc.). God tells me that if chance is given, I should share it with others. But, as a weak human like Jonah, I don't like to share it with people like you (in case the story of Jonah is not clear to you, please read the very short Book of Jonah). Since you did not ask me, but laugh at me, I take it as a situation that the chance is not given.

LOL! You have a long history of claiming you know the answer, but that we are not "good enough" to hear it from you. You aren't fooling anyone here, Juvie...we know you have no answers.

 

[Split Rock]

You could ask Juv. about that one. he went on for great lengths earlier about how "a plant is not a life", for the reason, I think that if a plant is alive (what he calls "a life") then there was death in his Garden and that messes things up.

It's all part of the twisted and tortured mental pathway of the creationist. It's kind of like trying to fit 20 pounds of fertilizer into a 5 pound bag.

 

[AV1611VET]

It's kind of like trying to fit 20 pounds of fertilizer into a 5 pound bag.

Nothing to it if it's a 5-pound bag for feathers, eh?

It all comes down to density, doesn't it?

And speaking of fertilizer in a small bag, doesn't Big Bang teach the universe was encapsulated inside of a bantam point at one time?

 

[Hespera]

It's all part of the twisted and tortured mental pathway of the creationist. It's kind of like trying to fit 20 pounds of fertilizer into a 5 pound bag.

Now you are just making an opportunity for someone to point out that no analogy is exactly analogous; one of the lowest known debate diversions, its true, but its as inevitable as it is senseless.

It does have a real function tho, if one keeps in mind that it functions to show that the person who does same, does so because he cant cope with, possibly cant even identify the main idea so he goes for a diversion.

As for what was the main idea about contorted logic...

That stuff about how "plant is not a life" is a classic.

part of what is fun is that it is true, as written. "life" in this use, is a noun. So is "plant' ... maybe. without the article, it could be a verb. Doesnt matter.

No verb is a noun, so "plant", verb, is not a noun, "life"

"Plant', noun, is also not "life", noun, any more than... here comes an analogy to be pounced on... than a zebra is a concerto.

It appeared that he was trying to say that 'plants are not alive" but as the English usage was never corrected so that it would make sense, we cannot say for absolutely sure. That was probably it, tho, becasue he was trying to make it seem that there was no death of any kind in the 'garden".

But anyway, the whole deal of trying to define breathing and breath of life so as to fit the bible, or defining life to fit the Eden story is, yes, a twisted mental process.

 

[Split Rock]

Nothing to it if it's a 5-pound bag for feathers, eh?

It all comes down to density, doesn't it?

And speaking of fertilizer in a small bag, doesn't Big Bang teach the universe was encapsulated inside of a bantam point at one time?

But its not a 5 lb bag of feathers, and The Big bang has nothing to do with the analogy. Yet, Hespera is correct... I left too much room for AVET's "Semantics Game." I should have wrote "It's like trying to shove 20 lb of fertilizer into a 5 lb bag with nothing but a shovel." Of course, you would still pretend that the anology was lost on you, anyway....

 

[AV1611VET]

But its not a 5 lb bag of feathers, and The Big bang has nothing to do with the analogy. Yet, Hespera is correct... I left too much room for AVET's "Semantics Game." I should have wrote "It's like trying to shove 20 lb of fertilizer into a 5 lb bag with nothing but a shovel." Of course, you would still pretend that the anology was lost on you, anyway....

Don't you mean a 20.0000000000 lb of fertilizer into a 5.0000000000 lb bag?

 

[Split Rock]

Don't you mean a 20.0000000000 lb of fertilizer into a 5.0000000000 lb bag?

No.

 

[lucaspa]

What is / was the firmament made out of?



Firmament is the term used in the KJV for the Hebrew word rawkee or rawkah

rawkee could be translated as 'expanse' or 'the visible arch of the sky'
rawkah as 'pound' 'beat' 'spread out into plates' 'stamp' or 'stretch

The OT is based on Babylonian cosmology. In that cosmology the firmament was a crystal dome over the world. Stars were set in the dome and there were storehouses of water, show, hail, etc. above it.

Will they be able to make some at CERN?
.

No. Cern is looking for subatomic particles, particularly the Higgs boson.

 

[lucaspa]

It all comes down to density, doesn't it?

And speaking of fertilizer in a small bag, doesn't Big Bang teach the universe was encapsulated inside of a bantam point at one time?

No. You will find this article helpful:
7. Lineweaver CH and Davis TM Misconceptions about the Big Bang, Scientific American 36-45 March 2005. http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID=0009F0CA-C523-1213-852383414B7F0147

 

[AV1611VET]

The OT is based on Babylonian cosmology.

Adam predated the Babylonian Empire by thousands of years.

 

[lucaspa]

Adam predated the Babylonian Empire by thousands of years.

1. Remember, according to conservative Christians, Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch. Adam was never an author. And the Babylonian cosmology predates Moses.

2. The firmament is in Genesis 1, not Genesis 2-3. So Adam has nothing to do with the term, even in the text. In fact, Genesis 1 belongs to P and was written toward the end or just after the Babylonian Exile.

 

[AV1611VET]

1. Remember, according to conservative Christians, Moses wrote the entire Pentateuch. Adam was never an author. And the Babylonian cosmology predates Moses.

2. The firmament is in Genesis 1, not Genesis 2-3. So Adam has nothing to do with the term, even in the text. In fact, Genesis 1 belongs to P and was written toward the end or just after the Babylonian Exile.

Tablet Theory

 

[sandwiches]

Tablet Theory

*It needs additional references or sources for verification. Tagged since April 2009.

*Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since April 2009.

 

[AV1611VET]

*It needs additional references or sources for verification. Tagged since April 2009.

*Its neutrality is disputed. Tagged since April 2009.

That's not my problem -- I'm not the one disputing it.

 

[Split Rock]

Tablet Theory

Where does it claim that Adam wrote Genesis? In fact, you can tell us what the rationale behind such an idea comes from, since you are the first and only person I have ever seen claim this.

 

[Hespera]

Where does it claim that Adam wrote Genesis? In fact, you can tell us what the rationale behind such an idea comes from, since you are the first and only person I have ever seen claim this.

Why of WHY didnt they just keep the original copy?

can it be for the same reason that we dont get to see J smith's gold books?

 

[AV1611VET]

Where does it claim that Adam wrote Genesis? In fact, you can tell us what the rationale behind such an idea comes from, since you are the first and only person I have ever seen claim this.

Here is an extensive write-up on colophons.

It even mentions Adam's 'signature':

We note that above Adam’s ‘signature’ in Genesis 5:12 we have been told of people as far down the line as the sons of Lamech of the Cainite line.

 

[Split Rock]

Here is an extensive write-up on colophons.

It even mentions Adam's 'signature':

Thank you!

 

[lucaspa]

Tablet Theory

LOL! So we have JEPD with Moses supposedly the editor. Well, at least they are realizing that Genesis wasn't due to a single author.

AV, look at what the article says: "showed that the methods of writing and compilation employed in Genesis were in essential harmony with the processes current among the scribes of ancient Babylonia"

Which means that Moses as editor or the authors knew about Babylonian cosmology. So even under Tablet Theory we have Moses putting in "firmament" as it was meant by the Babylonians.

Thank you for for disproving your own argument. Very generous of you.

BTW, if Adam was writing that part where he participated, why didn't he use first person?