Athena returned the Spear

[AV1611VET]

Im a US citizen. Does that do anything for your 'theory"?

Yes --- it proves my theory wrong --- and I'm glad.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I guess you are a Seeker, aren't you?

Do all seekers share that sentiment?

I'm a seeker, too --- in math.

Every time someone tells me 2 + 2 = 4, I say --- ya, but only in Base 10.

That way, I'll always be a seeker.

Wrong again.

2+2=4 in base 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, ...

And in some sense it is true in all bases; it is just represented differently.

 

[AV1611VET]

Wrong again.

2+2=4 in base 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, ...

Well, there ya go --- seek and ye shall find.

All I need to do to be correct is drop the word 'only', and I can continue seeking.

 

[TerranceL]

God was Moses' reconnaissance team.

He told Moses who to hit, when to hit, and where they were.

Why exactly does the creator of all that is need a hit squad?

He can flood the earth but he can't kill a few people?

 

[Hespera]

Killer angels are the ones in need, of a "god' to tell them when to do what they have been planning. these days, they lock them up. but in the old days they made them bible characters.

 

[AV1611VET]

Why exactly does the creator of all that is need a hit squad?

He can flood the earth but he can't kill a few people?

He is training them to stand on their own two feet.

He knows He will soon be asked to leave.

And she named the child Ichabod, saying, The glory is departed from Israel: because the ark of God was taken, and because of her father in law and her husband.

In my opinion.

 

[Gracchus]

It's people with that attitude, Hespera, that dragged the Vietnam War out so long --- causing so many Americans to die.

Americans died because they went to someone else's land to enforce an alien system of political and economic ideas.

You 'hippies and draft dodgers' burning the flag and draft cards, while the real men and women marched off to obey their Commander-in-Chief.

You cannot serve two masters, according to some fool(1). If he was right, then you cannot serve God and Mammon (money), or God and Caesar (the state), or God and Mars (war). America went to Viet Nam and killed two and a half million Vietnamese, Laotians, and Cambodians, many of them women and children, and most of the rest patriots trying to drive out foreign invaders. None of them had come here to kill us.

And if you are ordered to kill innocents or suffer shame or death, the same aforementioned fool said that if you want to save your life you must give it up.(2)

We finally got tired of that and came after you, only you turned tail and ran north.

I made my opinions on that war known, and got out of the Army after two hitches. I publicly protested the war, but I have never been to Canada. And had you come after me, liebling, I would probably have taken you for a vicious fool, and having small patience with such, would have gutted you like a fish (in self-defense of course). I am much mellower now.

So you two just keep it up --- you remind me of the Vietnam Era --- and how proud I am to be a vet.

The day will come when you shall be ashamed, before God and everyone.

By the way, my name, along with others, is engraved in a monument in the city I was born --- is [either of] yours?

"Fools names and fools faces are often seen in public places."

No, thanks --- "coward" fits better.

Tell us all your war stories, hero.




(1) Matthew 6:24
(2) Matthew 6:25-26

 

[Hespera]

Gracchus..

i think that AV is wrong about this on just about every level there is, including some he doesnt even know are there. Obviously i didnt care to hear about "people with my attitude...causing so many American deaths".

With My attitude, we'd have stayed out of their affairs and offered help whenever they wanted it; would not have helped the French try to recolonize, for that matter.
There would have been no war, with my attitude.

Clearly i am not morally culpable in this, but to accuse anyone, people "like me" of being culpable in our countrymen's deaths is pretty strong stuff, and frankly, in person it might get a demo of my kick to the chin. Luckily, no such thing will happen.

i feel terrible about all the Vietnamese who died, and all the Americans in that senseless terrible tragedy. Americans are now welcome in vietnam, they love anything American! The war is over.

I am sorry that AV thought he needed to go after me in this.. His claim that saying "you' in addressed to me didnt mean me notwithstanding, he did; then worked in a gratuitous insult about how i was just here to try to marry someone and get residency. i guess its just strong feelings he needs to take out on someone. i do that myself, in case anyone didnt notice I have a lot of hostility in me.

Well regardless of all that, i thank Av for serving and doing what he thought was right.
i thank you too Gracchus.

if i ever visit the viet war memorial I will lay a wreath.

Lets not now fight over a lost cause that nobody will ever really understand.

 

[corvus_corax]

Tell us all your war stories, hero.

Indeed, I'd love to hear how AV obeyed orders that he found to be morally reprehensible.
I mean, after all, according to him, it's okay, as long as you are "following orders" (God's or your sergeant's).
Would love love love to hear all about it.




Although I call BS
My father in law (in addition to many other men I know) is a Vietnam vet. He has admitted that some horrific and terrible and unimaginable things were done, some of which he (and the others) were a part of.
He won't talk about it, period (no details) and even when he just mentions it, it brings tears to his eyes.
He (and other Vietnam vets) have said that they were wrong (morally, ethically, etc) for just "following orders" and (quite frankly) many of them have said that they SHOULD have taken a bullet to the head before committing the atrocities that they were commanded to do.

Thankfully, conscientious objection is much more acceptable now than it was during the Vietnam conflict and during the genocide upon Canaan.

Yay "god" commanding butchery, huh?

 

[yasic]

AV you specifically asked me what I feel is the justification to calling Numbers 31 a mass rape and which verses justify such an interpretation. I made an answer and you either ignored it or overlooked it.

I would appreciate it if you would at least acknowledge it in some form since it was you who asked for the post.

In case you missed it the first time around, I am including a copy of the exact post below:

Thanks,

AV, I chose to say Numbers 31 rather than Numbers 31: 18-19 for a reason: I feel context is most important here.

First, we know that the Jews faced the adult men in combat and beat them, then they rounded up all the women, and children (both child men and child women). We know that young virgins alone numbers over 32,000 (see Numbers 31:32), so we can make a pretty reasonable guess that the total number of non-virgins was in the tens of thousands as well.

Now, they decided to slaughter every single one of the helpless non-virgin girls and all boys regardless of virginity, right in front of the eyes of the virgin girls- though to be fair, this command came from moses, not directly from God (at least the bible does not make such a claim), but Moses decided to keep alive the virgin girls.

So, we are faced with the question of why keep them- and we have several options.

A) They wanted to have sex with the virgin girls. You would want virgin ones because they are usually both STD free and are unlikely to be holding a child from the 'other' tribe claiming he is a Jew from the captors.

B) They wanted them as slaves - though we can rule this option fairly safely out as there is no reason to only choose virgin girls... boys, regardless of virginity, would be considered better slaves for most cases (hence why they cost more)

C) They wanted to have compassion- We can rule this option out because, once again, compassion would not involve slaughtering 4 year old boys.

Or D) Another option that I have not thought off.

From this, we can see that they wanted the virgins for sexual purposes.



Once this is established, we then decide if they engaged in consential sex or in rape. This is not actually addressed in the bible however we have a good reason to assume it was rape, namely that these young women just saw their mothers, sisters, and young brothers slaughtered, defenseless, by their captors. This would naturally cause the vast majority of them to hate their captors, let alone not wish to have sex with them.

Sure, some of them would be willing for whatever reasons (perhaps due to desperation, depression, or apathy induced from the war-crimes of the Jews) but certainly not all. We are not given a hint to what happened to the virgins that said no, but we can fairly safely assume that they were not released to run free (otherwise why not let the non-virgin girls go free from the get go?) So they were either raped or killed.

If they are killed, I think we can still assume that it was rape for the ones that were not because they saw the first wave get killed, and if you have an option of 'have sex with me or die' you will lie, saying you accept, when in reality you are just engaging in the act to save your life- I would hope we can agree that this is still rape.


I hope that answers your question about how I got this view?



Btw, your response that it was virigns because of STD protection only works if they entended to have sex with them. If you do not plan to have sex with them, why on earth would you worryif they have STD's or not?

 

[AV1611VET]

Athena returned the spear:

Evolution, in my opinion, is nothing more than a revival of the Old Testament [times] idols.
​

Each nation had a primary deity, usually with the deity coupled with man in some way; and the scientific community is no exception.

Sagittarius

Horus

Dagon

Minotaur

Evolution

​

 

[Split Rock]

Evolution, in my opinion, is nothing more than a revival of the Old Testament [times] idols.
​

Each nation had a primary deity, usually with the deity coupled with man in some way; and the scientific community is no exception.

​

Your opinion (at least you aren't claiming it is God's Word this time) is worth its weight in gold to us.​

 

[Cabal]

Ah good, AV, you're back.

SO......

I wonder what you would have done at My Lai, if your commanding officer told you to slaughter everyone in the village and burn it to the ground.

Do tell.

 

[AV1611VET]

Do tell.

I can't remember what the UCMJ says about that --- please refresh my memory.

 

[Belk]

I can't remember what the UCMJ says about that --- please refresh my memory.

Basically that anyone committing acts of atrocity,even under orders, is culpable for their actions.

 

[laconicstudent]

Basically that anyone committing acts of atrocity,even under orders, is culpable for their actions.

Yes. This was the basis for charging SS officers with war crimes for their role in the Holocaust. They attempted to exonerate themselves by claiming they were only following orders.... The tribunal disagreed.

 

[dawiyd]

I can't remember what the UCMJ says about that --- please refresh my memory.

You need the guidance of UCMJ not to follow orders, to decide not slaughter everyone in the village and burn it to the ground.

Your moral compass is a bit screwed.

 

[AV1611VET]

You need the guidance of UCMJ not to follow orders, to decide not slaughter everyone in the village and burn it to the ground.

Your moral compass is a bit screwed.

Wow --- and I didn't even answer Cabal's question yet.

I love how you guys ask a question, and insult the person before he even answers it.

 

[dawiyd]

Wow --- and I didn't even answer Cabal's question yet.

I love how you guys ask a question, and insult the person before he even answers it.

If you answer was a straight out no, then there would be no need to consult the UCMJ.

But go on, what would you have done 'at My Lai, if your commanding officer told you to slaughter everyone in the village and burn it to the ground'.

 

[Cabal]

Wow --- and I didn't even answer Cabal's question yet.

I love how you guys ask a question, and insult the person before he even answers it.

And I'm still waiting - how many months now?

I just love how you prevaricate on this one.

You like to necro six year old threads, why the neglect of something that's barely a year old?

But do go on.