Carl Sagan said it better than I can...

[Nathan Poe]

Then I'll compare him to Jesus the storyteller. Most were NOT cheered by an optimistic (stoned) view of the cosmos, and instead were quite angry at his stories and lessons. Yet I've choosen to follow Him instead. That explains my sour temperament.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[sandwiches]

Then I'll compare him to Jesus the storyteller. Most were NOT cheered by an optimistic (stoned) view of the cosmos, and instead were quite angry at his stories and lessons. Yet I've choosen to follow Him instead. That explains my sour temperament.

You are angry at a stoner 'oohing' and 'aahing' in awe of the universe that you believe your deity created?? Seems like you have some deeper issues to work through.

 

[Doveaman]

Carl Sagan said it better than I can...

"If the general theory of a big bang and an ever-expanding universe after that is correct, than what happened before that?

Nothing happened before "that", because "that" never happened. The big bang is a myth. It never happened.

Was the universe simply devoid of all matter, and then the matter appeared through means which we cannot fully comprehend,

No.

God did it.

"For by Him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible." - Col 1:16

how did that happen?

Because He did it.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." - Gen 1:1.

In many cultures, the customary answer is that a god or gods created the universe

Now we are getting somewhere.

out of nothing,

Actually, He created it out of Himself, since He is all there was.

" He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." - Col 1:17.

He is pregnant with us.

but if we wish to peruse this question courageously, we must of course ask ourselves the next question: where did god come from?

This question is irrelevant.

If we decide that this is a question that cannot be answered as we will never know the answer, then why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question?

If the baker baked the cake, I do not need to now where the baker came from to know the baker baked the cake. The baker baked the cake because the baker is the baker who baked the cake. Case closed. Where He came from is irrelevant. He baked the cake.

Or, if we say that god always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed, and has no need for a creation - and it was always here?"

Because God said He created it.

"I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself." - Isa 44:24.

Your questions are nonsensical, Carl.

 

[SkyWriting]

Actually, He created it out of Himself, since He is all there was.
" He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." - Col 1:17.
He is pregnant with us.
"I am the LORD, who has made all things, who alone stretched out the heavens, who spread out the earth by myself." - Isa 44:24.

That's good stuff. I'd not heard the phrase "pregnant with us" before
but then nobody in my home church would have thought of it.

When people ask for proof of God, I do like to remember that God is keeping each atom from flying apart.
And there's always a couple of atoms lying around if anybody wants proof.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

God did it.

Here's where the study of science ends, and religion begins. (IOW, this has no real explanatory value).

 

[Doveaman]

That's good stuff. I'd not heard the phrase "pregnant with us" before
but then nobody in my home church would have thought of it.

Yes, He is pregnant with us, eagerly awaiting our new birth into the new world at the coming of the Great Physician.

Unfortunately, some of us will be stillborn and will have to be cremated.

When people ask for proof of God, I do like to remember that God is keeping each atom from flying apart.
And there's always a couple of atoms lying around if anybody wants proof.

Yes, they are so big you can't miss em.

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." - Rom 1:20.

 

[Exial]

To prove god created the universe you must first prove he exists, which nobody has been able to do.

 

[Doveaman]

God did it.

Here's where the study of science ends, and religion begins.

Here's where the study of science begins, and religion flourishes.

(IOW, this has no real explanatory value).

Actually, it explains everything.

The Universe? God did it.

The Galaxies? God did it.

The Stars? God did it.

The Planets? God did it.

The Planet Life? God did it.

The Atom? God did it.

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible , whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." - Col 1:16-17.

God did it!

He really did, honestly!

 

[Doveaman]

To prove god created the universe you must first prove he exists, which nobody has been able to do.

There is no need for us to. God has already proven Himself.

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities — his eternal power and divine nature — have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." - Rom 1:20.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Here's where the study of science begins, and religion flourishes.
Actually, it explains everything.

The Universe? God did it.

The Galaxies? God did it.

The Stars? God did it.

The Planets? God did it.

The Planet Life? God did it.

The Atom? God did it.

"For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible , whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together." - Col 1:16-17.

God did it!

He really did, honestly!

If you replace the word "religion" with the word "ignorance," then you would be correct.

The pink unicorn did it. Zeus did it. Thor did it. Allah did it. Amon ra did it. Flying spaghetti monster did it. Satan did it. You did it. I did it. God did it.

See, really doesn't explain anything.

For some, "God did it" might be good enough. Good on you. For me however, I like to learn how things work.

 

[SkyWriting]

For some, "God did it" might be good enough. Good on you. For me however, I like to learn how things work.

Ya gotta play catchup then:

SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES ESTABLISHED
BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS


ANTISEPTIC SURGERY JOSEPH LISTER (1827-1912)
BACTERIOLOGY LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULUS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
CELESTIAL MECHANICS JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
CHEMISTRY ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)​

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

Ya gotta play catchup then:

SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES ESTABLISHED
BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS​

ANTISEPTIC SURGERY JOSEPH LISTER (1827-1912)
BACTERIOLOGY LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULUS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
CELESTIAL MECHANICS JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)​

CHEMISTRY ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)​

Don't you mean: ANTISEPTIC SURGERY, BACTERIOLOGY, CALCULUS, CELESTIAL MECHANICS AND CHEMISTRY - GODDIDIT?

BTW, what year was The Origin published?

 

[ReverendDG]

Ya gotta play catchup then:

SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES ESTABLISHED
BY CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS


ANTISEPTIC SURGERY JOSEPH LISTER (1827-1912)
BACTERIOLOGY LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULUS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
CELESTIAL MECHANICS JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
CHEMISTRY ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)​

none of those people were creationists, calling them creationists is purely misleading.
they may have believed in god creating the world, but that doesn't make one a creationist in the modern sense of the word, namely 1920's sda, 1960's creationist.

 

[SkyWriting]

none of those people were creationists, calling them creationists is purely misleading.
they may have believed in god creating the world, but that doesn't make one a creationist in the modern sense of the word, namely 1920's sda, 1960's creationist.

They believed that God created the world.
Then they created Science.
Were they confused or something?

COMPARATIVE ANATOMY GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)
COMPUTER SCIENCE CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
DIMENSIONAL ANALYSIS LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
DYNAMICS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
ELECTRONICS JOHN AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945)
ELECTRODYNAMICS JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
ELECTRO-MAGNETICS MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ENERGETICS LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ENTOMOLOGY OF LIVING INSECTS HENRI FABRE (1823-1915)
FIELD THEORY MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
FLUID MECHANICS GEORGE STOKES (1819-1903)
GALACTIC ASTRONOMY WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
GAS DYNAMICS ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
GENETICS GREGOR MENDEL (1822-1884)
GLACIAL GEOLOGY LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
GYNECOLOGY JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
HYDRAULICS LEONARDO DA VINCI (1452-1519)
HYDROGRAPHY MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
HYDROSTATICS BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
ICHTHYOLOGY LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
ISOTOPIC CHEMISTRY WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
MODEL ANALYSIS LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
NATURAL HISTORY JOHN RAY (1627-1705)
NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY BERNHARD RIEMANN (1826- 1866)
OCEANOGRAPHY MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
OPTICAL MINERALOGY DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
PALEONTOLOGY JOHN WOODWARD (1665-1728)
PATHOLOGY RUDOLPH VIRCHOW (1821-1902)
PHYSICAL ASTRONOMY JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
REVERSIBLE THERMODYNAMICS JAMES JOULE (1818-1889)
STATISTICAL THERMODYNAMICS JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
STRATIGRAPHY NICHOLAS STENO (1631-1686)
SYSTEMATIC BIOLOGY CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
THERMODYNAMICS LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
THERMOKINETICS HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
VERTEBRATE PALEONTOLOGY GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)

 

[laconicstudent]

They believed that God created the world.
Then they created Science.
Were they confused or something?

COMPARATIVE ANATOMY GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)
COMPUTER SCIENCE CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
DIMENSIONAL ANALYSIS LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
DYNAMICS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
ELECTRONICS JOHN AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945)
ELECTRODYNAMICS JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
ELECTRO-MAGNETICS MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ENERGETICS LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ENTOMOLOGY OF LIVING INSECTS HENRI FABRE (1823-1915)
FIELD THEORY MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
FLUID MECHANICS GEORGE STOKES (1819-1903)
GALACTIC ASTRONOMY WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
GAS DYNAMICS ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
GENETICS GREGOR MENDEL (1822-1884)
GLACIAL GEOLOGY LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
GYNECOLOGY JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
HYDRAULICS LEONARDO DA VINCI (1452-1519)
HYDROGRAPHY MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
HYDROSTATICS BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
ICHTHYOLOGY LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
ISOTOPIC CHEMISTRY WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
MODEL ANALYSIS LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
NATURAL HISTORY JOHN RAY (1627-1705)
NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY BERNHARD RIEMANN (1826- 1866)
OCEANOGRAPHY MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
OPTICAL MINERALOGY DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
PALEONTOLOGY JOHN WOODWARD (1665-1728)
PATHOLOGY RUDOLPH VIRCHOW (1821-1902)
PHYSICAL ASTRONOMY JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
REVERSIBLE THERMODYNAMICS JAMES JOULE (1818-1889)
STATISTICAL THERMODYNAMICS JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
STRATIGRAPHY NICHOLAS STENO (1631-1686)
SYSTEMATIC BIOLOGY CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
THERMODYNAMICS LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
THERMOKINETICS HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
VERTEBRATE PALEONTOLOGY GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)

Yes, they were wrong, obviously. Notice how they've all been dead for about a century now?

Also, appeal to authority = fail

 

[Nathan Poe]

They believed that God created the world.
Then they created Science.
Were they confused or something?

No, they just didn't let their personal beliefs hinder their search for knowledge.

had any of those men merely said "Goddidit," and threw up their hands in futility, would they have accomplished anything?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Actually, it explains everything.

The Universe? God did it.

The Galaxies? God did it.

The Stars? God did it.

The Planets? God did it.

The Planet Life? God did it.

The Atom? God did it.

God did it!

He really did, honestly!

WWII? God did it.

JFK assasination? God did it.

Rise of the Roman Empire? God did it.

Roswell, New Mexico? God did it.

Cherry Coke? God did it.

Last Thursday? God did it.

Lady GaGa? God did it. (And I demand an explanation for that one!)

Anything else you don't want to bother trying to figure out?

 

[AV1611VET]

No, they just didn't let their personal beliefs hinder their search for knowledge.

Why would a scientist let his personal beliefs hinder his search for knowledge?

The Bible says the fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.

 

[AV1611VET]

WWII? God did it.

JFK assasination? God did it.

Rise of the Roman Empire? God did it.

Roswell, New Mexico? God did it.

Cherry Coke? God did it.

Last Thursday? God did it.

Lady GaGa? God did it. (And I demand an explanation for that one!)

Anything else you don't want to bother trying to figure out?

Keep your day job.

I take it God hasn't called you to be a scientist?

You know --- the kind that actually goes out and sweats in the field --- not just one that sits around and gets paper cuts at his desk?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Why would a scientist let his personal beliefs hinder his search for knowledge?

The Bible says the fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, not the end.

Which is exactly the kind of nonsense you don't want mucking up the search for knowledge.