Carl Sagan said it better than I can...

[SithDoughnut]

Nothing wrong with that --- as long as you worship the right One.

QV my last post.

Good job we only have one then.

 

[MoonLancer]

Which is older, sun worship or fire worship?

isn't the sun a huge fireball?

 

[SithDoughnut]

Read what you just said here slowly, SD.

"Disproving"?

Someone writes an autobiography, and that 'disproves' his existence?

Good point. I should have written biography instead of autobiography.

Nonetheless, the Bible is not about the life of God, so it is neither.

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

isn't the sun a huge fireball?

The sun is a measma of incandescent plasma.

TMBG- "The Sun is a Miasma of Incandescent Plasma" Video by They Might be Johns (a TMBG fansite) - MySpace Video

 

[pgp_protector]

^^^ That hurt ^^^

 

[LifeToTheFullest!]

^^^ That hurt ^^^

lol... my seven and five year old can sing just about every song to their "Here Comes Science" CD.

 

[pgp_protector]

lol... my seven and five year old can sing just about every song to their "Here Comes Science" CD.

I'd bet they do a better job also
Maybe it's just my earphones I'm using, but the quality was almost painful when he started "singing" (can I call it that )

 

[SkyWriting]

"If the general theory of a big bang and an ever-expanding universe after that is correct, than what happened before that? Was the universe simply devoid of all matter, and then the matter appeared through means which we cannot fully comprehend, how did that happen? In many cultures, the customary answer is that a god or gods created the universe out of nothing, but if we wish to peruse this question courageously, we must of course ask ourselves the next question: where did god come from?"

If we decide that this is a question that cannot be answered as we will never know the answer, then why not save a step and conclude that the origin of the universe is an unanswerable question? Or, if we say that god always existed, why not save a step and conclude that the universe has always existed, and has no need for a creation - and it was always here?"

Was Sagan with his second or third wife when he wrote that?
And was he stoned at the time?
Stoned Progressive Jews come up with lots of interesting ideas. His father may have picked up some wisdom as an usher at the movie house in New York and passed it on to young Carl.

Before the Big Bang? Without matter, time doesn't exist so there is no "before". And (scientifically speaking) all theories of "the beginning" start with conditions we can't duplicate. Time not existing for example.

So trusting that God was there, we can trust He has the ability to explain it to us as well. Or not to trust....that's a choice too.

 

[SkyWriting]

That is to say the universe is expanding, and that it's rate of expansion is increasing.

You failed to note that the "change in rate" eliminated 99% of scientific predictions (Historical-Science-Fiction) on origins. It means (according to them) that the big bang was a one time event, with an Alpha and an Omega. Something scripture readers have known for 1000's of years. I think you'd have a very hard time finding a scientific paper suggesting a universe that wasn't steady state.

 

[sandwiches]

Was Sagan with his second or third wife when he wrote that?
And was he stoned at the time?
Stoned Progressive Jews come up with lots of interesting ideas. His father may have picked up some wisdom as an usher at the movie house in New York and passed it on to young Carl.

If his character invalidates what he said, what does god's murderous, petty, vengeful, jealous, cruel, and deceiving character say about the Bible? After all YHWH created the devil and allows him to run rampant, allows natural disasters and diseases to horribly, and sometimes, painfully kill millions, he murdered the entire population of humans and land animals on the planet at one point, did horrendously cruel things to Job just to show his superiority to the devil, encouraged wars, had Abraham almost kill his own son just to see if he could, et cetera. Now that I think about it, you are absolutely right. God's character, as portrayed in the Bible, definitely shows that we cannot follow that book for anything regarding morality, science, history, geography, or any other subject for that matter.

Before the Big Bang? Without matter, time doesn't exist so there is no "before". And (scientifically speaking) all theories of "the beginning" start with conditions we can't duplicate. Time not existing for example.

So trusting that God was there, we can trust He has the ability to explain it to us as well. Or not to trust....that's a choice too.

Trust in a deceiving, petty, and malevolent YHWH? I don't think so. Good luck to ya, though. Let me know how that works out for you.

 

[BananaSlug]

Your post has been reported for anti Semitic remarks.

Was Sagan with his second or third wife when he wrote that?

Does it matter? Ideas should be judged by their own merit, not by the personal shortcomings of people. Should we accept the Bible considering many of its authors were murders and/or adulterers?

And was he stoned at the time?
Stoned Progressive Jews come up with lots of interesting ideas. His father may have picked up some wisdom as an usher at the movie house in New York and passed it on to young Carl.

Like I said, your remarks have been reported.

Before the Big Bang? Without matter, time doesn't exist so there is no "before". And (scientifically speaking) all theories of "the beginning" start with conditions we can't duplicate. Time not existing for example.

It is all based in mathematics.

So trusting that God was there, we can trust He has the ability to explain it to us as well. Or not to trust....that's a choice too.

All ideas of "creation" start with conditions we cannot duplicate. God existing for example.

 

[SkyWriting]

If his character invalidates what he said, what does god's murderous, petty, vengeful, jealous, cruel, and deceiving character say about the Bible? After all YHWH created the devil and allows him to run rampant, allows natural disasters and diseases to horribly, and sometimes, painfully kill millions, he murdered the entire population of humans and land animals on the planet at one point, did horrendously cruel things to Job just to show his superiority to the devil, encouraged wars, had Abraham almost kill his own son just to see if he could, et cetera. Now that I think about it, you are absolutely right. God's character, as portrayed in the Bible, definitely shows that we cannot follow that book for anything regarding morality, science, history, geography, or any other subject for that matter. Let me know how that works out for you.

You are mistaking mans torments for God's character.

My days are filled with peace and contentment. What I need is delivered each day. I can set out on the most dangerous adventures with out fear of death and can look evildoers in the eye. God answers my prayers and it has worked out great. Thanks for your interest.

 

[SkyWriting]

Your post has been reported for anti Semitic remarks.

You don't know any progressive Jews? Two very long time friends of mine were and they had lots of great stories. They weren't proponents Pot use like Sagan was, but wine wasn't unusual at their house. Hey report away. You don't need me around stirring up the truth pot.

 

[SkyWriting]

All ideas of "creation" start with conditions we cannot duplicate. God existing for example.

Dead Accurate. We have to put our faith in somebody to explain it for us.
I worked in building B2 in 1983.
"Twenty cases of benign and malignant brain cancer, seven of which were gliomas, have been diagnosed among workers at Naperville since 1982."

 

[sandwiches]

You are mistaking mans torments for God's character.

So, you're saying that God doesn't allow people to die in horrible ways from diseases, natural disasters and other humans?

My days are filled with peace and contentment. What I need is delivered each day.

That makes two of us! My days are pretty relaxed for the most part. I have a loving wife, a job doing what I like, a great family, good friends, and great health. All without belief in a god. Neither my wife or I are religious or theists, at all. I guess if there's a god out there somewhere, he and I must be in pretty good terms.

I can set out on the most dangerous adventures with out fear of death and can look evildoers in the eye. God answers my prayers and it has worked out great. Thanks for your interest.

Good to hear. Curiously, I too get what I need and want but I do it not by prayer but by working for it and it has worked out great.

 

[SkyWriting]

So, you're saying that God doesn't allow people to die in horrible ways from diseases, natural disasters and other humans?

He does. And you haven't figured out why that is.

 

[dewaddict84]

From what I've seen of him Carl Sagen was pretty cool, but honestly, I've heard people talk about him more then I've actually heard the man.

Before the Big Bang? Without matter, time doesn't exist so there is no "before".

Well, that's arguable, but it's really not relevant to the pre-bang environment. Before* the big bang, the singularity had not exploded, but the singularity was there. It contained all or most of the stuff that makes the universe we know and love today. Maybe it was a super-duper-massive black hole at the center of whatever was there pre-bang. Who knows, the explosion wiped out most, if not all, of the evidence about the pre-bang environment. Which makes all this kinda moot, but fun none-the-less.

*But the idea that you're trying to regurgitate is the idea that the singularity contained everything, and that it compressed it all to a single point. In such an environment there is no relativity. Nothing else remains to compare it against and no state in the singularity can change from one moment to the next. So time passing is rather meaningless. Some dude postulated that in such an environment time literally doesn't exist anymore, but I'm not buying it. Furthermore, I'm not sure that there wasn't some sort of functioning universe when the big bang happened.

My days are filled with peace and contentment.

And attacking Carl Sagen. Everyone has their hobbies.

 

[sandwiches]

He does. And you haven't figured out why that is.

Well, it's because he's cruel, impotent, or he simply doesn't exist. I'm betting on the last option.

 

[Shemjaza]

not making light at all....Carl is the from the same camp

Sickening.

Personally I don't find your comparison compelling at all... I would hope you would see that people who are cheered by Sagan's optimistic view of the cosmos would be as insulted by a comparison to Jim Jones as if I were to compare your beliefs to the toxic theology of David Koresh or Fred Phelps.

 

[SkyWriting]

Personally I don't find your comparison compelling at all... I would hope you would see that people who are cheered by Sagan's optimistic view of the cosmos would be as insulted by a comparison to........

Then I'll compare him to Jesus the storyteller. Most were NOT cheered by an optimistic (stoned) view of the cosmos, and instead were quite angry at his stories and lessons. Yet I've choosen to follow Him instead. That explains my sour temperament.