My Mariana Trench Challenge II

[AV1611VET]

Not very convincing... is it?

Of course not ---

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

 

[kharisym]

Let me get this straight, you're postulating that all the data converging upon verifying the existence of the mariana trench is the same as the tiny bit of data stating that jesus exists? Let's do a quick example:

<www marianatrench com>
The Mariana Trench is located in the Pacific Ocean, [SIZE=-1] just east of the[/SIZE] 14 Mariana Islands (11"21' North latitude and 142" 12' East longitude ) near Japan.

<en wikipedia org wiki Mariana_Trench>
It is located in the western Pacific Ocean, to the east of the Mariana Islands
As you probably already know, it is the deepest part of the earth's oceans, and the deepest location of the earth itself.
It reaches a maximum depth of about 11,033 metres (36,200 ft) at the Challenger Deep, a small slot-shaped valley in its floor, at its southern end.

<geology com records deepest-part-of-the-ocean shtml>
Challenger Deep in the Mariana Trench is the deepest point in Earth's oceans. The bottom there is 10,924 meters (35,840 feet) below sea level

Now let's compare this information convergence to your single source:
Mark 15:17 - And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,
Mathew 27:28 - And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.
John 19:2 - And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

Mark 15:23 - And they gave him to drink wine mingled with myrrh: but he received it not.
Mathew 27:34 - They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

John 19:3 - And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
Mathew 27:30 - And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.
Mark 15:19 - And they smote him on the head with a reed, and did spit upon him, and bowing their knees worshipped him.

John 19:17 - And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Golgotha
Mathew 27:32 - And as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name: him they compelled to bear his cross.
Mark 15:21 - And they compel one Simon a Cyrenian, who passed by, coming out of the country, the father of Alexander and Rufus, to bear his cross.

Mark 15:40 - There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;
Mathew 27:55-56 - And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: Among which was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedees children.
John 19:25 - Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene.

The entirety of Jon19:25-30 disagrees with the other two accounts in numerous ways including: Jesus not appealing to god, Jesus talking to his mother/etc, Jesus stating that he's thirsty.

 

[AV1611VET]

Let me get this straight, you're postulating that all the data converging upon verifying the existence of the mariana trench is the same as the tiny bit of data stating that jesus exists?

How many people have actually visited the trench, kharisym?

15? 20? 35? 80? 100?

Let's compare that with Jesus:

After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

No comparison.

Now, let's get hypo for a moment.

Suppose --- hypothetically --- that no one ever visits the trench again.

All those who have actually gone there are now dead, and all that's left is their pictures, charts, graphs, etc. from the time they were alive 2000 years ago.

It's now the year 4010 --- should Joe Average, reading a book about this trench, believe it?

Or should someone have to actually go down there every generation?

Please answer this question:

If Joe Average refuses to believe the book, is he making a mistake?

 

[SithDoughnut]

How many people have actually visited the trench, kharisym?

15? 20? 35? 80? 100?

Let's compare that with Jesus:No comparison.

Now, let's get hypo for a moment.

Suppose --- hypothetically --- that no one ever visits the trench again.

All those who have actually gone there are now dead, and all that's left is their pictures, charts, graphs, etc. from the time they were alive 2000 years ago.

It's now the year 4010 --- should Joe Average, reading a book about this trench, believe it?

Or should someone have to actually go down there every generation?

Please answer this question:

If Joe Average refuses to believe the book, is he making a mistake?

Do sattelite photos and other pictures of the trench not count then?

 

[kharisym]

Do sattelite photos and other pictures of the trench not count then?

I'm guessing satellites are satan's playgrounds.

 

[kharisym]

How many people have actually visited the trench, kharisym?

15? 20? 35? 80? 100?

Let's compare that with Jesus:No comparison.

Now, let's get hypo for a moment.

Suppose --- hypothetically --- that no one ever visits the trench again.

All those who have actually gone there are now dead, and all that's left is their pictures, charts, graphs, etc. from the time they were alive 2000 years ago.

It's now the year 4010 --- should Joe Average, reading a book about this trench, believe it?

Or should someone have to actually go down there every generation?

Please answer this question:

If Joe Average refuses to believe the book, is he making a mistake?

Good job ignoring the body of my post. So tell me, where in my statement did I give the bulk of my evidence as comparing people who went to the mariana trench? Your arguing a strawman here, AV. I'll give an example:

Your argument is about porridge, why are you arguing about porridge? It has nothing to do with the mariana trench!

 

[Nathan Poe]

It makes me wonder why AV doesn't just accept a "YEC" label and be done with it.

Consider: Rather than produce one scrap of positive evidence for his own position, a YEC will resort to a legion of sophistic and legalistic doubletalk to try to reduce the opposition to their own level -- giving their ideas (and by extension, themselves) the illusion of credibility.

To wit: rather than provide a basis for his own belief, AV instead choses to denegrate the concept of "faith" by claiming that the existence of the Mariana Trench is as faith-based as the literal interpretation of every single act attributed to Jesus Christ. Rather than expoind on his own faith (a dirty word in Fundie circles) AV would rather treat faith like a disease, claiming that we, not he, are infected by it.

At its heart, YEC isn't about science or theology -- it's about marketing skills -- promote your product by slandering the competition. Only problem is, packaging excrement in a box labeled "pudding" doesn't make it so -- no matter how many people you get to buy it.

 

[Cabal]

How many people have actually visited the trench, kharisym?

15? 20? 35? 80? 100?

Erm - you don't need to actually VISIT the trench to find out how deep it is.

Let's compare that with Jesus:No comparison.

Now, let's get hypo for a moment.

Suppose --- hypothetically --- that no one ever visits the trench again.

All those who have actually gone there are now dead, and all that's left is their pictures, charts, graphs, etc. from the time they were alive 2000 years ago.

It's now the year 4010 --- should Joe Average, reading a book about this trench, believe it?

Or should someone have to actually go down there every generation?

Please answer this question:

If Joe Average refuses to believe the book, is he making a mistake?

I wouldn't criticise the guy for finding out himself - and the thing is, HE CAN. With the existence of Jesus, he can not and never can. Therefore the two scenarios (as they have always been and this has repeatedly been shown to you) are not equivalent.

The fact you have to resort to a hypothetical scenario also shows the weakness on your side - science has published a lot in the last 300 years, never mind 2000 - whereas Christianity has a moratorium on publishing anything more.

 

[AV1611VET]

I wouldn't criticise the guy for finding out himself - and the thing is, HE CAN.

Would you care to answer my question?

The answer hurts, doesn't it?

 

[Cabal]

Would you care to answer my question?

The answer hurts, doesn't it?

Uh....you QUOTED my answer

I realise that for you answering points hurts, but please at least try.

Now let's try again.

I wouldn't criticise Joe Average for wanting to find out himself. Anyone is welcome to disbelieve any aspect of science if they so choose. The reasons for doing so, however, may be sensible or they may not be. Arbitrarily disagreeing with something because it goes against an unjustifiable preconception like creationism is not sensible. Disagreeing with something because there might be a flaw in the older methods of getting the measurement for the depth of the trench, or the depth may have changed, is acceptable.

 

[Skavau]

Now my point: I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him in the Bible.

Now, I could say, "I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him on Wikipedia," but that isn't the same thing.

There's something about reading about Him in the Bible, than there is in reading about Him on Wikipedia.

The Bible generates faith in Him --- not Wikipedia.

What a pathetic little point. You believe in Jesus because read about him in the Bible. Wow.

So what? What was this supposed to prove?

 

[Skavau]

How many people have actually visited the trench, kharisym?

15? 20? 35? 80? 100?

Let's compare that with Jesus:No comparison.

Now, let's get hypo for a moment.

Suppose --- hypothetically --- that no one ever visits the trench again.

All those who have actually gone there are now dead, and all that's left is their pictures, charts, graphs, etc. from the time they were alive 2000 years ago.

It's now the year 4010 --- should Joe Average, reading a book about this trench, believe it?

Or should someone have to actually go down there every generation?

Please answer this question:

If Joe Average refuses to believe the book, is he making a mistake?

This is a ridiculous word game.

But the answer is yes. If indeed there are pictures, charts, graphs and a consistent field of study on something (The Mariana Trench) that has lasted hundreds of years with sources from all across the world then we have fantastic reason to accept that as true.

This is not comparable to the Bible in the slightest. We have evidence as you've pointed out of the Mariana Trench. We don't have that of the Bible.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What a pathetic little point. You believe in Jesus because read about him in the Bible. Wow.

So what? What was this supposed to prove?
[/size][/font]

That AV feels better about himself for believing everything he reads because he thinks everyone else does too.

For an "Independent Baptist," AV certainly wants to be one of the in crowd, doesn't he?

 

[Nathan Poe]

This is a ridiculous word game.

But the answer is yes. If indeed there are pictures, charts, graphs and a consistent field of study on something (The Mariana Trench) that has lasted hundreds of years with sources from all across the world then we have fantastic reason to accept that as true.

This is not comparable to the Bible in the slightest. We have evidence as you've pointed out of the Mariana Trench. We don't have that of the Bible.

AV doesn't believe in evidence -- being unable to produce any for himself, he prefers to attempt to discredit any that exists for -- well, everything, frankly.

 

[AV1611VET]

This is a ridiculous word game.

But the answer is yes. If indeed there are pictures, charts, graphs...

But what if the book doesn't have pictures, charts, graphs --- what if the book is text-only.

If Joe Average doesn't believe it, is he making a mistake?

 

[Cabal]

But what if the book doesn't have pictures, charts, graphs --- what if the book is text-only.

Please stop (a) playing the telephone game and (b) trying to bring down scientific literature to the illustration level of the Bible

If Joe Average doesn't believe it, is he making a mistake?

(Of course, he's not.)

So if a book is text-only and the material never gets updated, Joe Average is not making a mistake not believing it?

I suspect you may want to rethink that one.

 

[AV1611VET]

So if a book is text-only and the material never gets updated, Joe Average is not making a mistake not believing it?

I suspect you may want to rethink that one.

Oops, you're right.

Too many negatives in that sentence.

Joe would be wrong if he did not believe the Mariana Trench existed.

 

[sandwiches]

I disagree.

That's what this thread is about --- and it would be nice if someone would answer it.

I'll make up an answer though, and then show you what I mean:Now my point: I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him in the Bible.

Now, I could say, "I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him on Wikipedia," but that isn't the same thing.

There's something about reading about Him in the Bible, than there is in reading about Him on Wikipedia.

The Bible generates faith in Him --- not Wikipedia.

Why is the Bible more trustworthy than the Wikipedia?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Oops, you're right.

Too many negatives in that sentence.

looks like you tried one too many verbal gymnastics, AV -- better luck next time.

 

[sandwiches]

I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

I know the Mariana Trench exists because I went there.

That's what this thread is about --- and it would be nice if someone would answer it.

I'll make up an answer though, and then show you what I mean:Now my point: I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him in the Bible.

Let me get this straight, you're postulating that all the data converging upon verifying the existence of the mariana trench is the same as the tiny bit of data stating that jesus exists?

The entirety of Jon19:25-30 disagrees with the other two accounts in numerous ways including: Jesus not appealing to god, Jesus talking to his mother/etc, Jesus stating that he's thirsty.

*cricket sounds*

And then, poor AV has the gall to say:

Would you care to answer my question?

The answer hurts, doesn't it?

This is sad and humorous, at the same time.