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My Mariana Trench Challenge II

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Skavau

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But what if the book doesn't have pictures, charts, graphs --- what if the book is text-only.

If Joe Average doesn't believe it, is he making a mistake?
What a pointless question.

I mean, it really is. You stretch the hypothetical to such redundantness that it doesn't even need an answer. Why would any educational book on what is have no graphs, no charts and no pictures here? I mean, if I was to say yes indeed the person would be making a mistake because the text-book would have been validated by the educational standards of the time and be backed up by detailed sources.

I would guess your response would be to that, "Well what if the text book on the Mariana Trench has no sources, and no endorsements from any reputable educational standard whatsoever? What then?" To which I would answer why bother with such silly questions if you're going to divorce your hypothetical situations from making any coherent sense.

I mean, you're not just habitually moving the goalposts, you're running around with them.
 
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ArteestX

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I'll make up an answer though, and then show you what I mean:
I believe the Mariana Trench exists, because I read about it on Wikipedia. I am an MD.
Now my point: I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him in the Bible.

Others have done a good job of deconstructing this argument, but I'd like to add another point. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Claiming that the Mariana Trench exists is a lot different than claiming that Atlantis exists. Claiming that a mountain named Everest exists is a lot different than claiming that El Dorado (the legendary city made entirely out of gold) exists. Claiming a leader named Napoleon led armies across Europe is a lot different than claiming a leader named Jesus performed miracles and came back from the dead. The more extraordinary the claim, the more proof that is required.
 
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AV1611VET

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Others have done a good job of deconstructing this argument...
Not one person has answer the OP with respect; and you want me to believe they've done a 'good job of deconstructing this argument'?

I don't think so.

If they've done anything, it's burying it in loquacious noise, hoping it will dissolve.
... but I'd like to add another point.
By all means --- don't feel like you have to address it.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
I've got something better than "extraordinary proof" --- it's called "infallible proofs".
Acts 1:3 said:
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
infallible = incapable of failing
Claiming that the Mariana Trench exists is a lot different than claiming that Atlantis exists.
I never said a word about Atlantis. Atlantis was originally an island that, over time, became a victim of retroactive falsification (like when you catch a small fish, and over time, you've ended up catching a marlin), until it became a continent.

If it is so confusing to you, try to answer it from a sans Bible perspective.

It's not a trick question, it's a leading question.
Claiming that a mountain named Everest exists is a lot different than claiming that El Dorado (the legendary city made entirely out of gold) exists.
Am I supposed to be acquiescing to some kind of point with all this excessive chat?
Claiming a leader named Napoleon led armies across Europe is a lot different than claiming a leader named Jesus performed miracles and came back from the dead.
Look, I'll tell you what: if it will make you feel any better, would you like me to start another Mariana Trench thread and specify in the OP that I do not want God or the Bible mentioned in it whatsoever?

Would that help you understand my point --- even a little?

Shoot --- someone might even answer it --- but I kinda doubt it.

That would take respect, and I guess respect hasn't evolved on the back of crystals yet.
The more extraordinary the claim, the more proof that is required.
Ya --- I've heard that kilotimes now; and believe me, the One Who made those claims backed them up in such a way as to leave science so far behind, it will never catch up.

If Jesus were to appear today and do 1/10 of what He did back then, science, with all of its fancy improvements over the last 2000 years, still wouldn't be prepared enough to ever understand it.
 
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sandwiches

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Not one person has answer the OP with respect; and you want me to believe they've done a 'good job of deconstructing this argument'?
So, what's your answer to Cabal, who said he's been there and that's why he believes?
 
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pgp_protector

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I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

It can be any software of your choice: charts, graphs, anecdotal testimony, hearsay, photographs, pdfs, Wikipedia, dictionary, drawings, a hunch, faith, newspaper article, book, magazine, peer reviewed journal, satellite image, sonar, blog, twitter entry, youtube, another post --- anything at all.

Please include your area of expertise and/or scientific interest when you reply.

I know the Mariana Trench exists because I went there.

Not one person has answer the OP with respect; and you want me to believe they've done a 'good job of deconstructing this argument'?

Denied & Proven Wrong

In stating that, did you provide True or False witness?
 
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Cabal

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I never said a word about Atlantis. Atlantis was originally an island that, over time, became a victim of retroactive falsification (like when you catch a small fish, and over time, you've ended up catching a marlin), until it became a continent.

Like a local flood can get retroactively falsified into a global flood?
 
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AV1611VET

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Like a local flood can get retroactively falsified into a global flood?
Then why aren't global flood reports a dime a dozen?

You would think we would have at least 11 more reports of the earth being flooded, would we not?
 
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Nathan Poe

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pgp_protector

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Then why aren't global flood reports a dime a dozen?

You would think we would have at least 11 more reports of the earth being flooded, would we not?

2 Second Search
Australia- Kurnai
Babylon- Berossus' account
Babylon- Gilgamesh epic
Bolivia- Chiriguano
Borneo- Sea Dayak
Burma- Singpho
Canada- Cree
Canada- Montagnais
China- Lolo
Cuba- original natives
East Africa- Masai
Egypt- Book of the Dead
Fiji- Walavu-levu tradition
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Hawaii- legend of Nu-u
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Vietnam- Bahnar
Wales- Dwyfan/Dwyfan legend
 
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Cabal

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Then why aren't global flood reports a dime a dozen?

You would think we would have at least 11 more reports of the earth being flooded, would we not?

Ever notice how our population and communication speed has gone up just a *little* since the days of Noah and Atlantis?

Even so, exaggeration still happens. The degree to which it is moderated can change, however. Despite some peoples' extreme loyalty to the alleged brilliance of oral tradition, the fact this high level of exaggeration occurs in nearly all oral histories should really tip them off to the fact that it just doesn't work.

Goodness, eyewitness accounts are unreliable these days even from one person about one short event - why expect something propagated orally through people who weren't even there to be any better?

Anyway, I think people would much rather hear you talk about your views on my fabulous underwater adventures at the Marianas Trench :wave:

And don't forget to comment on my responses on the continuing story of Joe Average!
 
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AV1611VET

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Anyway, I think people would much rather hear you talk about your views on my fabulous underwater adventures at the Marianas Trench
They're in for a disappointment then.

I couldn't care less who was there --- this thread is about who wasn't there, yet believes in it based on software.
 
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Cabal

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They're in for a disappointment then.

I couldn't care less who was there --- this thread is about who wasn't there

I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

STOP TELEPHONING YOURSELF

yet believes in it based on software.

It can be any software of your choice: charts, graphs, anecdotal testimony, hearsay, photographs, pdfs, Wikipedia, dictionary, drawings, a hunch, faith, newspaper article, book, magazine, peer reviewed journal, satellite image, sonar, blog, twitter entry, youtube, another post --- anything at all.

STOP TELEPHONING YOURSELF

Please include your area of expertise and/or scientific interest when you reply.

I ARE A PHYSICIST
 
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sandwiches

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Let me rephrase that as I, obviously, wasn't very clear. What does software mean to you? I've never heard of anecdotes being called 'software' by anyone but you. So, you're obviously not using the common meaning of the word.
 
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Split Rock

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Let me rephrase that as I, obviously, wasn't very clear. What does software mean to you? I've never heard of anecdotes being called 'software' by anyone but you. So, you're obviously not using the common meaning of the word.

Software is a catch-all phrase that AVET uses for anything that doesn't come from The KJV Bible. Its kinda like the way he uses "scientist" for everyone from engineers to medical doctors, to architects and bureaucrats.
 
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