My Mariana Trench Challenge II

[AV1611VET]

I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

It can be any software of your choice: charts, graphs, anecdotal testimony, hearsay, photographs, pdfs, Wikipedia, dictionary, drawings, a hunch, faith, newspaper article, book, magazine, peer reviewed journal, satellite image, sonar, blog, twitter entry, youtube, another post --- anything at all.

Please include your area of expertise and/or scientific interest when you reply.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

It can be any software of your choice: charts, graphs, anecdotal testimony, hearsay, photographs, pdfs, Wikipedia, dictionary, drawings, a hunch, faith, newspaper article, book, magazine, peer reviewed journal, satellite image, sonar, blog, twitter entry, youtube, another post --- anything at all.

Hi Av,

God bless you and may Jesus grant us truth and wisdom.

I believe no one on Earth knows. Perhaps not even angels.

Do you have any ideas about it?

The Mariana Trench is a young rift, less than 20 million years old according to the National Geophysical Data Center: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/mgg/ocean_...ages/whole_world/2008_age_of_oceans_p1024.jpg

In fact, the Pacific Ocean and all the worlds oceans are less than 180 million years old.

That's because the Earth is growing.

Please include your area of expertise and/or scientific interest when you reply.

My areas of expertise are natural philosophy and the history of mathematics and science.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Double post.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hi Av,

God bless you and may Jesus grant us truth and wisdom.

Thank you, bro --- you too!

And I pray you have a very happy new year!

 

[Split Rock]

I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

It can be any software of your choice: charts, graphs, anecdotal testimony, hearsay, photographs, pdfs, Wikipedia, dictionary, drawings, a hunch, faith, newspaper article, book, magazine, peer reviewed journal, satellite image, sonar, blog, twitter entry, youtube, another post --- anything at all.

Please include your area of expertise and/or scientific interest when you reply.

Sorry, but I don't even believe that this thread exists... so I am going to have to "opt out" on this one!

 

[Cabal]

I know the Mariana Trench exists because I went there.

 

[Split Rock]

I know the Mariana Trench exists because I went there.

Uhh, oh.... I don't think AVET was expecting that kind of answer.....

 

[Cabal]

Uhh, oh.... I don't think AVET was expecting that kind of answer.....

Given that it's on a par with his usual standard of evidence, I'm curious to see if he accepts it.

Doesn't really matter if he does or doesn't, it was a great expedition!

 

[Mling]

Why does it need a reason to exist? It just does.

 

[Cabal]

Why does it need a reason to exist? It just does.

Don't be silly Mling! Something can only exist or be true if you've personally observed it!

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

Why does it need a reason to exist? It just does.

It needs a reason because science and wisdom require causality.

"Some people even question whether they [chance and spontaneity] are real or not. They say that nothing happens by chance, but that everything which we ascribe to chance or spontaneity has some definite cause ...." --Aristotle, Physics, Book II, 350 B.C.

"... if chance were real, it would seem strange indeed, and the question might be raised, why on earth none of the wise men of old in speaking of the causes of generation and decay took account of chance; whence it would seem that they too did not believe that anything is by chance." -- Aristotle, Physics, Book II, 350 B.C.

"Certainly the early physicists found no place for chance among the causes which they recognized...." -- Aristotle, Physics, Book II, 350 B.C.

"... nor again could it be right to entrust so great a matter [nature] to spontaneity and chance. When one man said, then, that reason was present -- as in animals, so throughout nature -- as the cause of order and of all arrangement, he seemed like a sober man in contrast with the random talk of his predecessors. We know that Anaxagoras certainly adopted these views, but Hermotimus of Clazomenae is credited with expressing them earlier." -- Aristotle, Metaphysics, Book I, 350 B.C.

 

[Mling]

Ok...why does any hole exist. Because some parts of the ground are lower than the surrounding parts of the ground.

It's just....seems like such a self-evident question. Like asking why a particular rock exists. Does every geological feature need its own apologia?

There it is.

Except for especially *interesting* geological features, where there's some confusion about the cause, or reason to question it, "there it is," seems like enough of an answer to me.

 

[ReverendDG]

I challenge anyone here to show me why you believe the Mariana Trench exists.

why do i need to show you i believe in a cleft in the earth? why do i need to show you why i accept the fact that there is a big cleft in the surface of the earth?
my question for you av is this:why do you continue to believe that in order for science to criticize attempts of creationists to equal science, science must fit the same paradigm as religious beliefs?
accepting facts as true is not the same as believing in god, so why try to play games like this?

you know full well that no one has faith or the same belief in the facts about the mariana trench, as they would about god so why continue this farce?

 

[ReverendDG]

It needs a reason because science and wisdom require causality.

what is causality to you? is the earth shifting and moving a good enough answer? that seems to be the only really evident reason i can think of for causality.
your quotes really aren't saying anything.

 

[AV1611VET]

you know full well that no one has faith or the same belief in the facts about the mariana trench, as they would about god so why continue this farce?

I disagree.

That's what this thread is about --- and it would be nice if someone would answer it.

I'll make up an answer though, and then show you what I mean:

I believe the Mariana Trench exists, because I read about it on Wikipedia. I am an MD.

Now my point: I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him in the Bible.

Now, I could say, "I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him on Wikipedia," but that isn't the same thing.

There's something about reading about Him in the Bible, than there is in reading about Him on Wikipedia.

The Bible generates faith in Him --- not Wikipedia.

 

[Cabal]

I disagree.

That's what this thread is about --- and it would be nice if someone would answer it.

I already answered it. I know how deep the Marianas Trench is because I went there myself

I'll make up an answer though, and then show you what I mean:Now my point: I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him in the Bible.

Now, I could say, "I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him on Wikipedia," but that isn't the same thing.

There's something about reading about Him in the Bible, than there is in reading about Him on Wikipedia.

The Bible generates faith in Him --- not Wikipedia.

This is an arbitrary declaration that you can't even back up with anything.

Or if your logic here is equally saying that there is something about trying to determine the depth of the Marianas Trench using science rather than reading about him in the Bible, which is not a science book, then go nuts. But please don't then state the Bible trumps science again

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

I believe the Mariana Trench exists, because I read about it on Wikipedia.

I've read about fairy tales, Cinderella, elves, and fire-breathing dragons on Wikipedia.

 

[Agonaces of Susa]

what is causality to you? is the earth shifting and moving a good enough answer? that seems to be the only really evident reason i can think of for causality.
your quotes really aren't saying anything.

Aristotle's causes are 4 in number. Not 1.

 

[kangitanka]

I've read about fairy tales, Cinderella, elves, and fire-breathing dragons on Wikipedia.

I read about your deity on Wikipedia.
And since you seem to distrust Wikipedia as a reliable source......

 

[Split Rock]

Now, I could say, "I believe in Jesus Christ because I read about Him on Wikipedia," but that isn't the same thing.

There's something about reading about Him in the Bible, than there is in reading about Him on Wikipedia.

The Bible generates faith in Him --- not Wikipedia.

I believe in elves, dwarves, orcs and The Dark Lord Sauron because I read about them in The Lord of The Rings, not Wikipedia.

I believe in overmen and The Gods of Eir and Dus because I read about them in The Lords of Dus, not Wikipedia.

I believe in martians because I read about them in The War of the Worlds, not Wikipedia.

I believe in Whos, Whoville and the Grinch, because I read about them in The Grinch Who Stole Christmas, not Wikipedia.

I believe in the Egyptian Gods and in Life after death, because I read about them in The Book of the Dead, not Wikipedia.

I believe in the angel Moroni and that Jesus visited Native Americans becasue I read about it in the Book of Mormon, not Wikipedia.

Not very convincing... is it?