suicide

[bliz]

A sin cannot be forgiven after death, read your bible. Don't play footsie with the devil and lose your soul! Suicide is also murder - self murder. No murderers shall enter heaven.

What a shame, I was looking forward to talking with David and Moses when I get there.

 

[Johnnz]

Since all sins are forgiven (our repentance actually doesn't change that by the way) since that was put in place between God and Jesus long ago we really should not be bothered by unconfessed sin. We all are going to see a lot of things more clearly after death, including our shortcomings. We will be even more thankful then for such a wonderful salvation.

John
NZ

 

[Jpark]

Where does it say murderers shall not enter heaven?

I believe that in the case of chronic depression and mental illness, God may forgive.

I also believe that God would forgive accidental suicide and accidental murder.

Yes, accidental suicide and accidental murder will be forgiven. However, if a person takes a life by desire, then it is sin. For murder is the desire to take a life. That is why suicide is a sin.

It is the desire to take one's life.

 

[elephunky]

Yes, accidental suicide and accidental murder will be forgiven. However, if a person takes a life by desire, then it is sin. For murder is the desire to take a life. That is why suicide is a sin.

It is the desire to take one's life.

Suicide generally isnt about having the desire to take your own life. It can feel like you need to.

 

[Jpark]

Suicide generally isnt about having the desire to take your own life. It can feel like you need to.

Are you saying it is an act of compulsion?

 

[elephunky]

Are you saying it is an act of compulsion?

It can be yes.

 

[chingchang]

My main question is: As a true Christian, if you commit suicide, are you given a one-way ticket to hell?

I've done quite a bit of online researching here and there. I've also asked my pastors at my church for their point of view. Of course, they all said "YOU GO TO HELL!" Based on basic knowledge of the scripture and the simple research I've done, I believe that if I were to kill myself at this moment, I would go into heaven. Committing suicide is an act of selfishness. Selfishness is a sin. A sin can be forgiven.

Please share some of your answers to this extremely controversial question. I really am curious, too curious for my own good.

Anyone who says that a believer who commits suicide is going to hell does NOT have the Spirit of God in them and therefore lacks spiritual discernment! I can say that without hesitation and with 100% confidence. How can I be so sure you may ask? Because I'm confident that the blood shed of the perfect lamb (Yeshua) was...is and always will be sufficient to cover ALL of our sin. Our salvation does NOT depend on what we do or don't do...it depends on the will of Jehovah. I am confident that if a believer falls mentally-ill and commits suicide...that believer's suffering will end and he or she will be in paradise with the thief who was on the cross next to our Lord.

End of discussion.

Hugs,
CC

 

[chingchang]

Yes, accidental suicide and accidental murder will be forgiven. However, if a person takes a life by desire, then it is sin. For murder is the desire to take a life. That is why suicide is a sin.

It is the desire to take one's life.

Moses was a murderer...and so was the Army of Israel when they followed God's orders:
1 Samuel 15:2-4 (New International Version)

This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

At what point is one forgiven for their sin? Shall we sacrifice Yeshua over and over...each time we sin? The sin of tomorrow is already forgiven! Praise God for that! There is nothing you can do to lose salvation if you have truly received it...Yeshua said that he will not lose one sheep that his Father has given him. If you are a true believer...and you commit suicide...you WILL be in paradise.

CC

 

[chingchang]

Where does it say murderers shall not enter heaven?

1 Corinthians 6:9

I believe that in the case of chronic depression and mental illness, God may forgive.

Yup! I'd say he already has forgiven...he's already at the end...we're just not there yet.

I also believe that God would forgive accidental suicide and accidental murder.

Of course! He loves us!

CC

 

[Jeffwhosoever]

This agrument depends on the OSAS theology, of which I am a believer, but this may be the source of the confusion. If we are Once Saved, Always Saved (perseverance of the Saints), then the answer is rather obvious. If you believe you the bible's reference to "Falling away" means "Loses your salvation", then you may also believe that committing a final act of sin without chance of repentence could lead to loss of salvation.

I'm in the OSAS camp, myself.

Jeff

 

[Jpark]

It can be yes.

1 Corinthians 12:2-3 You know that you were Gentiles, carried away to these dumb idols, however you were led. Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed, and no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

Some suicide can be demonic. The Holy Spirit does not drive people into wild compulsive acts. He empowers people for ministry. He does not overpower.

Moses was a murderer...and so was the Army of Israel when they followed God's orders:
1 Samuel 15:2-4 (New International Version)

This is what the LORD Almighty says: 'I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' "

At what point is one forgiven for their sin? Shall we sacrifice Yeshua over and over...each time we sin? The sin of tomorrow is already forgiven! Praise God for that! There is nothing you can do to lose salvation if you have truly received it...Yeshua said that he will not lose one sheep that his Father has given him. If you are a true believer...and you commit suicide...you WILL be in paradise.

CC

That does not fall under the same category.

Capital punishment and judgment is God ordained.

Consider Numbers 25

Numbers 25:7-11 Now when Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose from among the congregation and took a javelin in his hand; and he went after the man of Israel into the tent and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her body. So the plague was stopped among the children of Israel. And those who died in the plague were twenty-four thousand. Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying: "Phinehas the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, has turned back My wrath from the children of Israel, because he was zealous with My zeal among them, so that I did not consume the children of Israel in My zeal.

The judges of Israel were required by God to kill the apostates (Numbers 25:5).

And concerning Moses, he saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, a servant of the Egypt, and one of his brethren.

In the sight of Moses, this was cruel treatment for the Hebrews were not mere slaves, but servants of the Egyptians. So Moses killed him. However, this was not a desire to take a life. This was a desire to protect a person who was being treated like a slave. Jesus was beaten and was a servant of God, was He not? If you were living in His time, you would desire to help Him, would you not?

Accidental killing and accidental suicide, capital punishment, judgment, and defending yourself or another person will be pardoned and is not a sin.

Suicide will not be forgiven and is sin for it is a compulsion and desire. God does not drive people into wild compulsive acts. God is gentle and kind. For God leads people (Matthew 4:1; Galatians 5:18; Romans 8:14).

Is He not a shepherd and we are His sheep?

 

[Jpark]

This agrument depends on the OSAS theology, of which I am a believer, but this may be the source of the confusion. If we are Once Saved, Always Saved (perseverance of the Saints), then the answer is rather obvious. If you believe you the bible's reference to "Falling away" means "Loses your salvation", then you may also believe that committing a final act of sin without chance of repentence could lead to loss of salvation.

I'm in the OSAS camp, myself.

Jeff

I believe falling away refers to apostasy.

I am not certain of which camp I am in, really.

 

[elephunky]

Some suicide can be demonic. The Holy Spirit does not drive people into wild compulsive acts. He empowers people for ministry. He does not overpower.

I dont recall there being a reference to the Holy Spirit driving someone to do it

 

[Jpark]

I dont recall there being a reference to the Holy Spirit driving someone to do it

For the Holy Spirit does not drive people. The Holy Spirit leads.

2 Timothy 1:7 For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

Mark 5:15 Then they came to Jesus, and saw the one who had been demon-possessed and had the legion, sitting and clothed and in his right mind.

right mind: To be of sound mind, sane, self-controlled, serious, moderate, sober-minded, restrained, disciplined, able to reason.

This is why suicide is not from God and has demonic roots. For suicide is an act of compulsion. God would never do that. God leads.

 

[Johnnz]

No one is suggesting that suicide is other than a tragedy, whatever the reasons for it and whatever else may lie behind it. But there is no basis to believe that Jesus left out suicide from his sacrifice and forgiveness. To say the suicide destines a person to hell is to say the Jesus did not include it in his atonement on behalf of humanity.

John
NZ

 

[Jpark]

No one is suggesting that suicide is other than a tragedy, whatever the reasons for it and whatever else may lie behind it. But there is no basis to believe that Jesus left out suicide from his sacrifice and forgiveness. To say the suicide destines a person to hell is to say the Jesus did not include it in his atonement on behalf of humanity.

John
NZ

It's all about rights and permission. Then one starts to see suicide in a new light and will agree with me.

In Whose hand is life and death?

Job 34:14-15 If He should set His heart on it, if He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.

 

[Sarcalogos Deus]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church sums this up nicely:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

It is God who decides when we die, not us. When someone commits suicide they are playing God and spitting in God's face. They are throwing away God's ultimate gift to man; life itself.

 

[Jpark]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church sums this up nicely:

2280 Everyone is responsible for his life before God who has given it to him. It is God who remains the sovereign Master of life. We are obliged to accept life gratefully and preserve it for his honor and the salvation of our souls. We are stewards, not owners, of the life God has entrusted to us. It is not ours to dispose of.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

It is God who decides when we die, not us. When someone commits suicide they are playing God and spitting in God's face. They are throwing away God's ultimate gift to man; life itself.

Indeed, this is true.

 

[Johnnz]

It's all about rights and permission. Then one starts to see suicide in a new light and will agree with me.

In Whose hand is life and death?

Job 34:14-15 If He should set His heart on it, if He should gather to Himself His Spirit and His breath, all flesh would perish together, and man would return to dust.

That is but one factor to consider. I raised an objection based on soteriology, ie are there limits to what Jesus has atoned for, which is a very real implication from the 'suicide means damnation' argument. Anything that transgresses God's principles is sin. But Jesus died for the sins of the world, all of them. He gave no exemption for suicide.

John
NZ

 

[Strong in Him]

My main question is: As a true Christian, if you commit suicide, are you given a one-way ticket to hell?

I've done quite a bit of online researching here and there. I've also asked my pastors at my church for their point of view. Of course, they all said "YOU GO TO HELL!" Based on basic knowledge of the scripture and the simple research I've done, I believe that if I were to kill myself at this moment, I would go into heaven. Committing suicide is an act of selfishness. Selfishness is a sin. A sin can be forgiven.

Please share some of your answers to this extremely controversial question. I really am curious, too curious for my own good.

Hi

Sorry I haven't read all the posts in this thread.

My first thoughts to this are that I don't believe that a Christian would go to hell for taking their own life. I believe God is comapssionate and sees all our hearts, and would surely know if someone had taken their life while in the grip of depression from which they could see no release. That surely wouldn't negate the fact that the person HAD believed that Jeus died for their sin on the cross, declared him as their Lord and Saviour, received his Spirit and been born again; and maybe deep down did still believe it, but life in the here-and-now had just become intolerable.

But if people believe that taking a life that God made, even their own, is a sin, and that not being able to trust God/hang on in there in faith is also a sin - then their argument would be that the suicidee (if that's a word), committed a sin but died before they could be repent of it and be forgiven. Therefore, in their eyes, the person died with an unforgiven sin; which I guess would mean that they believe they would go to hell.

Would this one "sin" cancel out the previous acts of grace and repentance?
What if the person didn't die immediately, had enough time to whisper "sorry Lord", but then died? What then?

So I guess my answer is that I don't really know, but I trust in the mercy and compassion of God, and would therefore say not.