Sheep of Christ

[WailingWall]

Who are the sheep of Christ. What does Jesus do to bring those sheep back in the fold. Who are the sheep Jesus came for who are not of the fold?

 

[MrPolo]

The sheep are the elect. The Spirit moves to entice all toward Him. I would not say every single person who becomes a disciple of Christ comes to Him in the identical way, particularly for adult converts.

 

[Kevin777]

Who are the sheep of Christ. What does Jesus do to bring those sheep back in the fold. Who are the sheep Jesus came for who are not of the fold?

He was the Lord and King of not just the Jews but also the Gentiles.

 

[Secundulus]

The message was preached first to the Jews (the sheep inside the fold) and then to the gentiles (the sheep outside the fold).

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Baaaah!

 

[CalmRon]

The message was preached first to the Jews (the sheep inside the fold) and then to the gentiles (the sheep outside the fold).

its easy to forget who the first disciples were or what most of Jesus' worldly ministry was.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

its easy to forget who the first disciples were or what most of Jesus' worldly ministry was.

In all seriousness from my last post you are correct. The western church seems on the surface at least to think of all of the disciples as good old American boys. Matt, Mark, Luke and Johnny. I'm being facetious but making a point here.
I've asked people in the past if they actually knew that the man Matthew wasn't his actual name...just the english translation evolved...and well the responses were funny to me.
Just a simple example of what you are talking about Ron.

 

[Hammster]

Who are the sheep of Christ. What does Jesus do to bring those sheep back in the fold. Who are the sheep Jesus came for who are not of the fold?

They are the lost that Jesus came to save. The Jews first, then the Gentiles. Not all of the lost are sheep.

 

[Bible2]

WailingWall:
Who are the sheep of Christ.

The sheep of Christ are the elect (Romans 9:11-24). The unelect cannot possibly believe in Christ (John 10:26-27, John 8:42-47).

What does Jesus do to bring those sheep back in the fold.

It is God the Father who draws the elect to Christ (John 6:65).

Who are the sheep Jesus came for who are not of the fold?

In John 10:16, it is the elect Gentiles who were the "other sheep" not of "this fold" of elect Jews; and believing Gentiles are made "one fold" (John 10:16) (one body, the church) with believing Jews (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6).

 

[Emmy]

Dear WailingWall. Jesus died for all Mankind. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, and ALL who follow Him, are His sheep. Jesus is also the Life, the Truth, and the Way. He leads us the True Way to Life eternal with our Heavenly Father. Perhaps the sheep Jesus means who are not of His Fold, could be the men and women, the Souls, who already died, and are waiting to be rescued??? I say this with love, WailingWall. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

The sheep of Christ are the elect (Romans 9:11-24). The unelect cannot possibly believe in Christ (John 10:26-27, John 8:42-47).



It is God the Father who draws the elect to Christ (John 6:65).



In John 10:16, it is the elect Gentiles who were the "other sheep" not of "this fold" of elect Jews; and believing Gentiles are made "one fold" (John 10:16) (one body, the church) with believing Jews (1 Corinthians 12:13, Ephesians 4:4-6).

I like your style!

 

[WailingWall]

Are the lost sheep the remnant of the 10 scattered tribes? If all the Jews accepted Jesus as the Christ, and Jesus viewed as an extention of the Jewish faith, would any gentiles have even bothered to open and read the bible?

 

[bugkiller]

Hi Wailing Wall,
My guess on reading your op was that you think all christians are or become spiritual Jews or Israel. Based on what? The parable of the olive tree in Rom 11? Notice it says 'with them' not 'become them.' Paul says there is neither Jew nor Greek and neither Greek nor Jew. And in Col 1:13 we are 'translated into the kingdom of His dear Son,' not Israel. The church is not spiritual Israel.

bugkiller

 

[christianmomof3]

Who are the sheep of Christ. What does Jesus do to bring those sheep back in the fold. Who are the sheep Jesus came for who are not of the fold?

They are the baaaaad guys.

 

[Bible2]

bugkiller:
My guess on reading your op was that you think all christians are or become spiritual Jews or Israel.

All Christians are Jews in spirit (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3). And all Christians are Israel, for all Jewish Christians remain Israel (Romans 11:1), and all Gentile Christians have been grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29). This is necessary because the New Covenant by which all Christians are saved (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 9:15) is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

 

[bugkiller]

Hi Bible 2,
　　
In Rom 2 Paul is addressing Jewish believers gloating about their supposed status by being natural blood line Jews opposed to the entire body of Christians. Read the whole chapter and you will find things like: ‘Behold thou art called a Jew, and resteth in the law…being instructed out of the law…‘Thou that makest thy boast of the law.’ This is definitely not speaking of Greeks/gentiles. Starting v 25 we find Paul addressing the value of circumcision. Who is circumcised? The Jew not the Greek/gentile. If you speak of spiritual circumcision as a requirement, you must also circumcise your ears (Acts 7:51). I’ll be looking for a picture confirmation.

Romans 11:1 is not a very good proof text either. You seem to be implying that the people of God are always Israelites (Jews), thus Christians are Jews.
Abraham is neither a Jew or Israelite. Paul is here citing his heritage and nothing else. Then you use the parable of the olive tree. The broken off Jew must be again be graft into the tree. I don’t think you don’t understand grafting. One can graft a pecan into a hickory. And it will produce pecans, not hickory nuts. It doesn’t become a hickory. It does draw sap from the root of the hickory. Verse 17 states ‘and with them partakest of the Root.’ It does not say become them. The Root is Jesus.
Along these lines Jesus said I am the vine and you are the branches. Jesus said nothing about the branches or Him being Israel.

Jesus also said in John 10:14-16 v 16 “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” Which fold is Jesus bringing these other sheep He has into? It does not say He is bringing them into “this fold.” It does say there will be “one fold.” Again nothing about Israel.

Col 1:13 ‘…hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.’ Translated us into what? That just can’t be, can it? His dear Son is not Israel.

Ephesians 2: 12 says ‘…being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope , and without God in the world. 13]…are made nigh by the blood of Christ.’ It does not say anything about being or becoming a Jew or spiritual Jew. Verse 19 says ‘fellow citizens with the saints… and household of God.’ No mention of Israel or Jew. Might you be having a limited definition view point? The saints are not exclusively Jewish Christians. The subverts of Acts 15 though so.


In Phil 3:3 Paul is again addressing the Jewish segment of the church. Immediately following Paul clarifies he is speaking as a Jew by stating his Jewish heritage and accomplishments not a Christian.

Hebrews is dealing almost exclusively with the Hebrew (Jew), not the Greek/gentile. That is why it is called Hebrews. If verse 9:15 applies only to the Hebrew, then NO Greek/gentile can be saved/redeemed.

Concerning Jere 31:31 - 34 and its quote in Hebrews 8 does not state that the new covenant is limited to the Jew. It does state it will not be like the covenant God made with their fathers. If it is limited to the Jew then you must be circumcised in the flesh. You did mention Rom 2:28, 29. To be any kind of Jew you must be circumcised in the flesh, which has no effect if the inner man is not changed. Changing the inner man (spirit, character, or heart) the law could not do.

bugkiller

 

[Bible2]

bugkiller:
In Rom 2 Paul is addressing Jewish believers gloating about their supposed status by being natural blood line Jews opposed to the entire body of Christians. Read the whole chapter and you will find things like: ‘Behold thou art called a Jew, and resteth in the law…being instructed out of the law…‘Thou that makest thy boast of the law.’ This is definitely not speaking of Greeks/gentiles. Starting v 25 we find Paul addressing the value of circumcision. Who is circumcised? The Jew not the Greek/gentile. If you speak of spiritual circumcision as a requirement, you must also circumcise your ears (Acts 7:51). I’ll be looking for a picture confirmation.

Romans 2:29 is referring to those who are Jews in spirit, whether they are Jews or Gentiles: Philippians 3:3. (In Acts 7:51, the uncircumcision of the ears is figurative, like the uncircumcision of the heart.)

Romans 11:1 is not a very good proof text either. You seem to be implying that the people of God are always Israelites (Jews), thus Christians are Jews.
Abraham is neither a Jew or Israelite. Paul is here citing his heritage and nothing else.

In Romans 11:1, Paul was showing that he is an Israelite even as he is a Christian, just as elsewhere he shows that he is a Jew even as he is a Christian (Acts 22:3).

Then you use the parable of the olive tree. The broken off Jew must be again be graft into the tree. I don’t think you don’t understand grafting. One can graft a pecan into a hickory. And it will produce pecans, not hickory nuts. It doesn’t become a hickory. It does draw sap from the root of the hickory. Verse 17 states ‘and with them partakest of the Root.’ It does not say become them. The Root is Jesus.

The broken-off Jews, if they come into faith, will be grafted back into "their own olive tree" (Romans 11:24), which is Israel, while believing Gentiles, who were not of Israel, but of another, "wild olive tree", have been grafted into the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).

Along these lines Jesus said I am the vine and you are the branches. Jesus said nothing about the branches or Him being Israel.

John 15:5 is referring to the body of Christ himself, of which all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are branches (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:13). The connection between all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles partaking of the sap of the vine of Christ himself and all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles partaking of the sap of the olive tree of Israel is that the salvation that believers receive from Christ comes only through the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

Jesus also said in John 10:14-16 v 16 “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.” Which fold is Jesus bringing these other sheep He has into? It does not say He is bringing them into “this fold.” It does say there will be “one fold.” Again nothing about Israel.

The "one fold" of John 10:16 is the one body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6), which includes all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13). And Revelation 21:9-12 shows that this one body (one bride) of Christ is Israel, just as Romans 11:1,17,24 and John 15:5 together showed that.

Col 1:13 ‘…hath translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son.’ Translated us into what? That just can’t be, can it? His dear Son is not Israel.

All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are brought into Christ's kingdom (Colossians 1:13), which is Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19). That's why Christ will sit on the throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:32).

Ephesians 2: 12 says ‘…being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope , and without God in the world. 13]…are made nigh by the blood of Christ.’ It does not say anything about being or becoming a Jew or spiritual Jew. Verse 19 says ‘fellow citizens with the saints… and household of God.’ No mention of Israel or Jew. Might you be having a limited definition view point? The saints are not exclusively Jewish Christians. The subverts of Acts 15 though so.

Ephesians 2:12,19 means that believing Gentiles are no longer strangers to Israel, but have been made fellowcitizens in Israel along with all believing Jews.

In Phil 3:3 Paul is again addressing the Jewish segment of the church. Immediately following Paul clarifies he is speaking as a Jew by stating his Jewish heritage and accomplishments not a Christian.

The "we" in Philippians 3:1-3, just like the "us" in Philippians 3:15-21, includes both believing Jews and believing Gentiles.

Hebrews is dealing almost exclusively with the Hebrew (Jew), not the Greek/gentile. That is why it is called Hebrews. If verse 9:15 applies only to the Hebrew, then NO Greek/gentile can be saved/redeemed.

Hebrews 9:15 applies not only to believing Jews, but also to believing Gentiles, for the New Covenant applies to both believing Jews and believing Gentiles (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6).

Concerning Jere 31:31 - 34 and its quote in Hebrews 8 does not state that the new covenant is limited to the Jew. It does state it will not be like the covenant God made with their fathers. If it is limited to the Jew then you must be circumcised in the flesh. You did mention Rom 2:28, 29. To be any kind of Jew you must be circumcised in the flesh, which has no effect if the inner man is not changed. Changing the inner man (spirit, character, or heart) the law could not do.

Jeremiah 31:31-33 does show that the New Covenant is made only with Israel. The way that believing Gentiles are saved under the New Covenant is by being grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

One of the ways that the New Covenant is unlike the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32) is that the New Covenant does not require those in Israel, those who are Jews in spirit, to be physically circumcised (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3).

 

[Frogster]

All natural barriers have been removed.Here is ample proof.

Romans 9:8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Galatians 3:28
28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11
11a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 10:12
12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;

1 Corinthians 12:13
13For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


ACTS 10:34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: “Truly I understand that God shows no partiality, 35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.


Romans 2:9-11 There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11 For God shows no partiality.

Acts 15:8-9 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.



Eph 2:15-18
15by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLOJ subscribes

 

[Frogster]

Romans 2:29 is referring to those who are Jews in spirit, whether they are Jews or Gentiles: Philippians 3:3. (In Acts 7:51, the uncircumcision of the ears is figurative, like the uncircumcision of the heart.)



In Romans 11:1, Paul was showing that he is an Israelite even as he is a Christian, just as elsewhere he shows that he is a Jew even as he is a Christian (Acts 22:3).



The broken-off Jews, if they come into faith, will be grafted back into "their own olive tree" (Romans 11:24), which is Israel, while believing Gentiles, who were not of Israel, but of another, "wild olive tree", have been grafted into the good olive tree of Israel (Romans 11:17,24).



John 15:5 is referring to the body of Christ himself, of which all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are branches (cf. 1 Corinthians 12:13). The connection between all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles partaking of the sap of the vine of Christ himself and all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles partaking of the sap of the olive tree of Israel is that the salvation that believers receive from Christ comes only through the New Covenant (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6; Hebrews 9:15), and the New Covenant is made only with Israel (Jeremiah 31:31-34).



The "one fold" of John 10:16 is the one body of Christ (Ephesians 4:4-6), which includes all believing Jews and all believing Gentiles (1 Corinthians 12:13). And Revelation 21:9-12 shows that this one body (one bride) of Christ is Israel, just as Romans 11:1,17,24 and John 15:5 together showed that.



All believing Jews and all believing Gentiles are brought into Christ's kingdom (Colossians 1:13), which is Israel (Ephesians 2:12,19). That's why Christ will sit on the throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7, Luke 1:32).



Ephesians 2:12,19 means that believing Gentiles are no longer strangers to Israel, but have been made fellowcitizens in Israel along with all believing Jews.



The "we" in Philippians 3:1-3, just like the "us" in Philippians 3:15-21, includes both believing Jews and believing Gentiles.



Hebrews 9:15 applies not only to believing Jews, but also to believing Gentiles, for the New Covenant applies to both believing Jews and believing Gentiles (Matthew 26:28; 1 Corinthians 11:25; 2 Corinthians 3:6).



Jeremiah 31:31-33 does show that the New Covenant is made only with Israel. The way that believing Gentiles are saved under the New Covenant is by being grafted into Israel (Romans 11:17,24, Ephesians 2:12,19, Galatians 3:29).

One of the ways that the New Covenant is unlike the Old Covenant (Jeremiah 31:32) is that the New Covenant does not require those in Israel, those who are Jews in spirit, to be physically circumcised (Romans 2:28-29, Philippians 3:3).

Gentiles are of Abraham,before he was circumcised.We are grafted into the cov of promise.