Evolution is a Fact

[TheReasoner]

Jesus has everything to do with everything. The Bible is the story of Jesus. Jesus can be found in every book of the Bible. What is being humble? Not standing up for God and His Word? Just going along with whatever man says to true without question? I never said anything about salvation, only what the Bible says and doesn't say.

Not really. You said what you believe it says. Like I demonstrated many people have believed the bible to say strange things. The crusades were justified with it. The inquisition and witch burnings too. And of course the geocentric worldview. I could go on, but all of these examples show when people have been convinced enough about what the bible says and doesn't say they were prepared to kill over it. And - it turns out in the end that they were wrong. Why do you think you're elevated above that?

Can your God bring into existence a 4 million year old rock in a blink? My God can. Was Adam born or created? If the Universe is infinite then why can't the Earth be in the center? Has there been other life discovered yet besides what is on earth?

Why would He? If He created a rock that had "embedded age" He would be telling us something that wasn't true. If He then wrote down what HAD happened word for word later on so we could have something to believe and we found the rock was 4 million years old that would effectively be deceiving us wouldn't it? I don't think God would lie to us like that. Could God do it. I suppose. But He doesn't tend to deceive people. If He created the world 6-10 000 years ago His creation would mirror that in a way which could not be argued against. He wouldn't make it seem much older. That's like painting a masterpiece and signing it under another name. Not very smart for any artist. Positively against anything I know about God. He's not a liar. He's not a deceiver. He likes to be worshipped and praised, so why would He try to deceive His own creation which He loves?!

Since I didn't say it, then I guess I ain't a liar...at least where that is concerned. <staff edit>.

<staff edit> I think it's sad that you're missing out on the wonderful things science can reveal to you about God's creation because you're falling in the same ditch the geocentrists and flat worlders fell in. I know I'm not always the best at conveying what I want to say in a way which is interpreted with the correct emotional accompanyment. But I try. Sorry if I fail, I'm only human. When you read my posts, imagine that I'm saying it to you word for word in a friendly voice and with a friendly smile. I definitely am not hatin'. English is not my mother tongue, and the American culture is not my own. So I sometimes word myself in ways which make me seem unfriendly or brisk I suppose. If that happens, know it is most definitely unintentional. God bless you man! He loves us. That is the message we need to work to spread. Love. Agape

2Ti 2:23-26
(23) But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.
(24) The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
(25) with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
(26) and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

I do agree that this is something I have to work on in my Christian walk.

Great! If we loose track of our potential our walk with Christ may quickly fade from focus, and we may not progress like He intended.
We all have things we need to work on. It's very good to realize that. Very important.

 

[CoderHead]

God commanded the water and the earth to bring forth other creatures: but of man he says, "Let us make..." Man is not made in the likeness of any of the creatures already made, but as near as could be in the image of God.

So, the animals came from the Earth and the waters, and man came from the Earth and water (mud, right)? The only difference being that the Bible's creation story declares man as being in the image of God. Very predictable, considering it was written by man. I mean, in the lemur's creation story, the lemur is made in the likeness of God. Have you ever considered the possibility that the creation story is a myth?

And what of the indisputable similarities between humans and other animals? Well, indisputable by those who aren't sticking their fingers in their ears and singing, "lalalalalalalala!"

Man did not become a living being until God breathed into him. The body formed from the dirt was nothing more than molded clay. Man is more than dust because God "breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." This is what separates man from all other creatures that are found in God's universe.

So, animals aren't alive? How do you suppose the mechanism that keeps animals alive is so different from that of humans? Do we not all have hearts, lungs (well, most of us), and brains? Aren't those the basic organs that keep us alive? What do humans have that lemurs don't that signifies the "breath of life" specific to just us?

"...no form of evolutionary theory can account for human speech, it cannot account for human conscience, and it cannot account for human individuality..."(Dr Vernon McGee)

Oh, I get it. We can speak and recognize ourselves in the mirror, so we're obviously spiritual creatures blessed by God! No, wait. Parrots and cockatoos can speak as well. And chimpanzees can recognize themselves in the mirror. And many animals express individuality by not living in herds or packs. So...what's the point again?

Beyond a reasonable doubt.....hmmm. The only way to put evolution into the Bible is to ADD it. There is not a single verse to back evolution, only perceived skips (there aren't any btw, that is man-made also) that evolution can be inserted into. That is why I have no doubt that evolution is fiction.

The Bible says the sun revolves around the Earth. I didn't put that in there. Do you believe that? If so, there are plenty of ways to prove you wrong. If you're wrong about the sun, then we have reasonable doubt. If the Bible is wrong about the sun, then it can also be wrong about creation, can't it?

 

[Belk]

The Bible tells me I am right and that is all the proof I need.

Indeed, the same way it told those in the middle age Christians the earth was flat. Amazing how everyone is infallible when they read their bible.

 

[Tenka]

"...no form of evolutionary theory can account for human speech, it cannot account for human conscience, and it cannot account for human individuality..."(Dr Vernon McGee)

And what is this Vernon McGee and Doctor of?
Bachelor of Arts (A.B.) 1930 Southwestern University at Memphis Bachelor of Divinity (B.Div.) 1933 Columbia Theological Seminary Master of Theology (Th.M.) 1937 Dallas Theological Seminary Doctor of Theology (Th.D.) 1940 Dallas Theological Seminary
If you're going to argue from authority JP, at least quote an authority.

 

[pgp_protector]

And what is this Vernon McGee and Doctor of?
Bachelor of Arts (A.B.) 1930 Southwestern University at Memphis Bachelor of Divinity (B.Div.) 1933 Columbia Theological Seminary Master of Theology (Th.M.) 1937 Dallas Theological Seminary Doctor of Theology (Th.D.) 1940 Dallas Theological Seminary
If you're going to argue from authority JP, at least quote an authority.

Well see they're not expecting anyone to research and verify what they post.

 

[Sanguis]

Try finding a doctor of biology, or a doctor of anthropology, or a doctor of virology, or a doctor of anything else actually relevant, then see what they have to say.

 

[Split Rock]

The Bible tells me I am right and that is all the proof I need.

The Bible says nothing about evolution, so how can you claim it tells you you are right? I think you mean that your interpretation of scripture tells you you are right. Which means, in other words, that you are telling yourself you are right. Hardly a convincing argument.

Beyond a reasonable doubt.....hmmm. The only way to put evolution into the Bible is to ADD it. There is not a single verse to back evolution, only perceived skips (there aren't any btw, that is man-made also) that evolution can be inserted into. That is why I have no doubt that evolution is fiction.

So, if it isn't in The Bible, it is fiction? Is that your argument? How could the writers include something they knew nothing about??

 

[Loudmouth]

Beyond a reasonable doubt.....hmmm. The only way to put evolution into the Bible is to ADD it. There is not a single verse to back evolution, only perceived skips (there aren't any btw, that is man-made also) that evolution can be inserted into. That is why I have no doubt that evolution is fiction.

I changed fonts cause I wanted to make sure that my responses were separated correctly.

The map is not the territory. Do you know what that means?

If the Bible does not contain facts you do not get to ignore the facts. The Bible is not reality. Reality is reality. In reality, all of the evidence points to evolution.

If you are required to reject facts in order to accept the Bible then I can't think of a better reason to be an atheist.

 

[Loudmouth]

God's handiwork? Evolution is fiction,

No, it's a scientific theory backed by mountains of evidence.

Again, if being a christian requires me to lie about facts then I can't think of a better reason to be an atheist. Can you?

 

[Loudmouth]

Hawk007, no use trying. These cats are more closed minded than we Christians are. They will always discredit any facts that contradict them.

What facts contradict us? Why do creationists always make these claims but never come foward with this evidence? Given your record of lying about the status of evolution as a valid scientific theory why should anyone believe you now?

 

[CoderHead]

So, if it isn't in The Bible, it is fiction? Is that your argument? How could the writers include something they knew nothing about??

Like motorcycles. Yet he proudly displays the Triumph as his avatar, accepting its validity even though it employs various scientific (non-Biblical) theories in order to function.

 

[pgp_protector]

No, it's a scientific theory backed by mountains of evidence.

Again, if being a christian requires me to lie about facts then I can't think of a better reason to be an atheist. Can you?

Thankfully that's not required.

 

[laconicstudent]

Are you a Christian? The reason why I am asking this is that you seem to enjoy having fellowship with darkness rather than light?

I am, but unlike you, I don't tolerate twisting Scriptures and using logical fallacies to deny the God's reality.

Your claim that I am in some relationship with darkness is rather amusing, I'll grant you.

 

[Skaloop]

Hawk007, no use trying. These cats are more closed minded than we Christians are. They will always discredit any facts that contradict them.

If they can be discredited (especially as readily and frequently as you claim) then they weren't really facts to begin with.

 

[laconicstudent]

Hawk007, no use trying. These cats are more closed minded than we Christians are. They will always discredit any facts that contradict them.

You haven't presented any yet.

 

[Loudmouth]

It's long past time for a reminder: the theory of evolution is just a theory - nothing more. Some are pretty loose in the use of the word "fact" and "science". Most of the so-called evidence for the theory of evolution has been debunked and thrown out.

"Just" a theory? Do you know how science works? Judging by this statement, you don't. So why should we believe someone about the state of science when that someone DOESN'T EVEN UNDERSTAND WHAT SCIENCE IS? Can you answer this for me? If you don't even understand how science works then how in the world do you even understand what evidence does or does not support it?

So, it's time for another reality check. The theory of evolution is hanging by a thread.

Since when?

Guesswork and vivid imaginations are the mainstay of the theory of evolution, but the die-hards won't give up on it yet because of losing face. It would also mean the loss of great amounts of funding that could be used on real science.

It is not guesswork that humans and chimps share hundreds of thousands of ERV's at the same spot in their genomes, the only explanation for which is common ancestry.

It is not guesswork that modern human features become more common in the fossil record with time.

It is not guesswork that the human and chimp GULO psuedogenes are broken in exactly the same manner.

It is not guesswork that human chromosome 2 carries all of the hallmarks of a fusion of two chimp chromosomes.

It is a fact that humans and chimps share a common ancestor. The differences seen between chimps and humans are consistent with evolutionary mechanisms. The changes seen in the fossil record are consistent with the gradual emergence of modern human characteristics. If this is hanging by a thread I would be absolutely interested in you telling us what a strong theory is in science.

So, after all these years, we have what's left of what hasn't been debunked yet, and they call it the theory of evolution. REMEMBER: THEORY NOT FACT.

Theories are more important than facts because theories explain the facts. Without theories the facts would be like a collection of stamps, all separate and unconnected. With theories you are able to infer relationships between facts and determine how they are related. This is what the theory of evolution does. It ties together the facts of evolution. Do you understand this? Do you understand why it is ignorant to claim that evolution is "just a theory"?

In the mean time, God's Account of Creation in Genesis stand stands and makes much more sense.

Can you please tell us how magical poofing makes more sense? When has magical poofing EVER been the best explanation? When has anyone ever looked at something and said, "Yep, that was magically poofed into existence, it can't be more clear"? WHEN HAS THIS EVER BEEN THE CASE?

Only the Creator can tell you the origin of man and the universe. Most obviously, man can't comprehend His actions, nor can man replicate them.

Why should we be able to replicate something THAT NEVER HAPPENED?

Here's the absolute Truth that will stand forever:

So you go on and on about how evolution falls short of fact, and blah blah blah. You then present dogmatic religious belief as fact. Do you understand why this is so ironic?

 

[TheReasoner]

No, it's a scientific theory backed by mountains of evidence.

Again, if being a christian requires me to lie about facts then I can't think of a better reason to be an atheist. Can you?

Well, it's not required. This guy may be vocal, and his words may drive you to consider throwing Christianity out with last month's diapers (if you have chidren I hope you don't let the diapers lay around for such a long time though...). I know his ilk made me consider that before. But rejecting truth is not a prerequisite for being a Christian. At all.

But you're right. Any religion that requires you to lie or make up phony evidence to be valid, well... Any such religion is obviously false.
Thankfully that is not the case with Christianity. Even if some make it seem that way.

 

[Loudmouth]

Thankfully that's not required.

I was careful to put an "IF" at the beginning.

 

[rjw]

Hi,

1- right there in the picture I gave you, do you think it came from nowhere?

Why would I think a molecule comes from nowhere? You do realize that every water molecule was once a couple of hydrogen atoms and an oxygen atom, wizzing around independently of each other, before they linked to become a water molecule? So when I see a water molecule, I don't think that it came from nowhere.

2- If you cannot produce life how are suppose to understand how God made a molecule that holds most living things together?

How do you understand God made the molecule?

I don't think God made any molecules. How much chemistry or biochemistry have you ever studied?

3- The evidence is under the microscope.....

Well, rather than asserting that this is evidence for your argument, you need to explain how it is evidence for your argument.

Otherwise I can simply assert that you are wrong, the evidence is under the microscope.

How do you explain how these molecules came about, where is the intelligence?

Molecules come from atoms. Most atoms come from the fusion of hydrogen and helium in stars. Hydrogen and helium come from the coalescing of sub-atomic particles, sub-atomic particles come from the energy of the Big Bang.

Beyond that, I have no idea.

Are you suggesting everything develops from something that does not have the means to think like humans can for example?

I am suggesting that many things develop from some other things and no intelligence is involved.

For example, winds form, and I don't think any intelligence is involved. We can model the formation of wind fairly well, without calling on an intelligence to make it.

Even humans cannot make something similar, but you suggest it can be done by other molecules?

Are you sure about this? Again, let me ask, just how much chemistry have you ever studied? For example, humans can make artificial genes from off-the-shelf chemicals. Such genes prove to be viable.

The reason why I post it here is that it does look pretty much like a cross which is normally referred to Jesus Christ and it is very interesting that in the Scriptures we read this,

Again, just how much do you know about molecules and their shapes? Molecules come in an enormous variety of shapes.

Colossians 1:15-17 (King James Version)


15Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

You do understand that these words were written by fallible humans who happened to have a particular belief about a particular deity?



Regards, Roland

 

[laconicstudent]

This thread is becoming the utter nadir of this forum, and an exemplar of just how wrong you can go when you carry Sola scriptura to extremes.