Evolution is a Fact

[Sanguis]

cut and paste

*Pssst* It's called "copypasta"

 

[Psudopod]

Science has become more and more political because this is how they get money for research.

You do realise that people were studying the climate long before anyone thought up the term global warming, and they would continue to do so even if it didn’t exist. Besides, it doesn’t matter if science funding is political. The science has to be able to stand up on it’s own right. If it’s wrong, you should be able to show why, rather than ranting about funding.

Nothing you have stated proves anything more than the FACT you worship nature instead of God. That's why atheism is just a man-made-up word and the Bible ignores it because it is impossible to be. EVERYONE worships something...sorry to disappoint.

Everything is a man made word! And no, not everyone worships something. You can pretend atheists are what ever you like, if it makes you feel better, but that doesn’t change the way things actually work. There’s nothing with wrong with worshiping something, so I don’t know why you think millions of people are lying to you.

I am not a mammal and I do not belong to the animal kingdom nor am I related to anything else in the universe.

You’re not a mammal? What are you a reptile? Are you a warm-blooded vertebrate with hair who gives birth to live young? Then you are a mammal. And you’re related to the universe by the fact that the atoms that make up your body were made in a star – we’re all formed of star-dust, isn’t that beautiful?

 

[TheReasoner]

Hawk007, no use trying. These cats are more closed minded than we Christians are. They will always discredit any facts that contradict them.

jpcedotal, Galatians 5:22-23 says:
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Are these fruits you are currently displaying brother?
I know, you possibly even consider me an enemy. For the sake of the Lord Jesus Christ however, I would remind you of Matthew 5:43-48
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.' 44But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

The fact that the whole earth is crawling with life and we have not managed to produce life is enough evidence for me that there is a God......life is a rarity in space, I do not know of any life found after so many years of searching thus far, am I wrong? Even the rock found with some fossilized bacteria was a hoax to get government funding for another few years.

We don't know life is a rarity in space. And well, I can see arguments for why it shouldn't be.
Point one, nowhere in the bible does it say humans are the only creatures created in God's image. Point two, Jesus even makes a reference to other sheep he must tend. Point three, the universe is beyond huge. It is incomprehensibly large. And the question I have regarding that is: Can we assume with certainty that God created only us to worship Him? Isn't He worth more than just our worship? I think so. I believe C.S. Lewis thought so too. Point four, the bible speaks very fondly of humility. It's very important according to the bible. But many Christians want to be larger than life. Bigger than we actually are, more important. We like to place ourselves in the center. Well, we aren't in the center. We're not in the center of the earth, solar system, galaxy nor universe. We're not on the biggest planet. Nor orbiting the most extraordinary star. Our planet is not very extraordinary except a thin thin layer of life on it's surface which may or may not be extraordinary. We are for comparison's sake simply one surface atom on one grain of dull, ordinary sand in a desert larger than all the deserts of the earth and mars combined.

And yet we who are not all that special are still loved by God so much that He sent His son to die for us.
It's very humbling. And the astronomical scales and the history of the universe only serves to underline how unlikely, undiserved and amazing God's love really is. It's a shame to hide all this wonderful knowledge which really puts things into perspective.

Is it not so that everything can be evidence for the existence of the Creator?
For there is only one Creator?

Objectively? Can we find the evidence of a creator objectively?

I believe we can currently find very strong indications of a creator. But we can't say (now) that it is certain. Objectively speaking of course. What I mean is: We can't yet prove God's existence in a lab. You see what I mean?

Did God utilize natural processes to create man in His image? If you say so, you are implying that God did not create us immediately the way He wanted, but rather wanted us to evolve from "you tell us" after billions of years and then have His image and my question would be, are we in His image yet or are we still in our evolution process? meaning we are still animals? What gives you that idea according to the Bible my friend?

Whether we're animals or not depends on your definition. Are we made up of cells? Yes. So if that's your definition then strictly speaking we are animals. I would like to think we're more than animals however.
I see no conflict between God being our creator and evolution being a tool He used. I don't really see a conflict between that and the creation story in genesis either.

First off, that a process takes time does not invalidate it. It took a long time to carve out Rush mountain for example, but the likeness of the stone faces is quite remarkable. Secondly, God is outside time according to the bible. So saying that something He does takes time is by definition (at least if we see it from His perspective) rather nonsensical. It creates a good reference frame that we can relate to more easily though. Plus, what theologeans I have spoken to have said about Genesis is that the words originally used for 'six days' meant six periods of time, not literally six revolutions about earth's axis. The creation story wasn't meant to be read literally, not like that. It's a nice story which is true, just not literally true. It's like telling a small child that it will be getting a new brother or sister, outlining very roughly how this happened without going into detail. It's true, very very simplified. But true nevertheless. The same is the deal with the creation story. Did it happen over six days? No. Demonstrably not. Did it happen in the order explained? As far as I know, yes. Does the story reveal important spiritual and interpersonal truths? Oh absolutely! It's just not a scientific text.

What's more, you yourself said that the bible cannot be read 100% literally at all points. We cannot for example say the earth is flat, even though you can certainly interpret quite a few verses to that effect. How do we know those verses cannot be interpreted literally, well for two reasons. One, some of them are in a context which seems mostly poetic. Not all though.
And two: We have verified that this interpretation is false with observations of reality.

And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light! He wills things into existence by His Word, not start a big bang and hope for the rest, for He is the almighty God of this universe!

Hehe, I see what you're saying. But I must disagree. You see, if we in a lab start certain processes we can before we start them tell exactly what the outcome will be. How much more so isn't this true for God? And besides, what smacks of God more than everything from nothing like in the big bang? It's amazing! God spoke *KABOOM*(well, not really kaboom. Can't have a real kaboom without a gas. But you know what I mean. *Kaflash* I suppose ) and everything came to be. It makes perfect sense, and even more so if you start looking at the physics. It's stunningly beautiful and can reveal so much about this universe... Yeah, it sure makes us feel small. But I think that's part of the whole idea. Our existence is good enough seen from a creationist standpoint. It becomes plain and simple like a child's crude drawings. You know, big circle with a smile and arms and legs popping out of it, crudely written "DAD" underneath. Yeah, it gives a general impression of a smiling person but it doesn't really compare to the real deal, you know?
If you start looking at the physics and mathematics however... That's when the true awesomeness starts.

Picture it this way... You set up a bunch of dominoes, and then touch one so that it topples. As it falls and brings others down with it a beautiful image may appear according to your design. It unfolds due to natural laws and without any intervention during the process of creating this image. But it is nevertheless clear that someone must have placed the dominos just right and toppled the first one.

The whole time argument thus doesn't really make sense. God is outside time, so 13 billion years or one second doesn't matter at all to Him. When His creation then tells us it is 13.7 billion years old or thereabouts we cannot with a clear conscience say that it is 6-10 000 years old on the simple premise that God is Holy and sin free, and thus cannot lie. Since creation according to genesis is little more than the physical echo of His words we can actually trust in what nature says as we can trust God's voice. Now mind you - I am not at all making nature into God or anything of the sort. No more than I would make a bread into a baker. But this bread (the universe) does tell us a story which - according to God's nature - cannot be wrong. Oh our understanding is limited and ever expanding, but trust me when I say we will not revert to a belief in a six day creation six thousand years ago. The universe doesn't 'jive' with that interpretation. And frankly, if something doesn't 'jive' with God's own words made universe, then I dismiss it.

 

[AV1611VET]

Start the evolution church or I think there is a new religion called Scientology or something to that affect. If evolution is what you believe, then teach it at home or group and without using taxpayers money.

Their religion is called Scientism.

The term scientism is used to describe the view that natural science has authority over all other interpretations of life, such as philosophical, religious, mythical, spiritual or humanistic explanations, and over other fields of inquiry, such as the social sciences.

 

[jpcedotal]

Their religion is called Scientism.

Thanks man...I try to show proper respect to religions and beliefs I do not agree with.

I saw the commercial a few weeks ago, but couldn't quite remember the name.

 

[VirOptimus]

Their religion is called Scientism.

So, why is it a religion?

 

[Psudopod]

Originally Posted by AV1611VET

Their religion is called Scientism.
​

Thanks man...I try to show proper respect to religions and beliefs I do not agree with.

What about the Christians who accept evolution? Are you going to say they believe in "sciencism" or the "religion of evolution"?

 

[AV1611VET]

What about the Christians who accept evolution? Are you going to say they believe in "sciencism" or the "religion of evolution"?

No comment.

 

[jpcedotal]

What about the Christians who accept evolution? Are you going to say they believe in "sciencism" or the "religion of evolution"?

I would question their salvation, which the Scripture tells me to do anytime someone claims to be Christian but has views that go against what is in the Bible. Maybe, they are saved but it is just a "kink", a man thought, that needs to be worked out...or it could be that they are lying to both God and themselves.

I would pray for them just like I do for all of you.

 

[Psudopod]

I would question their salvation, which the Scripture tells me to do anytime someone claims to be Christian but has views that go against what is in the Bible. Maybe, they are saved but it is just a "kink", a man thought, that needs to be worked out...or it could be that they are lying to both God and themselves.

Where in scripture does it to tell you to deny the evidence of God's creation in order to be saved?

 

[CoderHead]

I would question their salvation, which the Scripture tells me to do anytime someone claims to be Christian but has views that go against what is in the Bible.

Or, against your interpretation of the Bible. I find it hard to believe that you could read scripture and walk away with, "Christianity is a special club where members have to think the same thing all the time or else they're out." If that's true, who wants to belong to your club anyway?

 

[jpcedotal]

Where in scripture does it to tell you to deny the evidence of God's creation in order to be saved?

lol, now that's a twisting of words.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, why is it a religion?

Wikipedia has a great write-up on Scientism.

Here's another excerpt:

In its most extreme form, scientism is the faith that science has no boundaries, that in due time all human problems and all aspects of human endeavor will be dealt and solved by science alone.

 

[VirOptimus]

Wikipedia has a great write-up on Scientism.

Here's another excerpt:[/i]

Yes, well, nothing there says it should be viewed as a religion. Its just a philosophical outlook and value system, nothing more.

And besides, I dont think scientism is correct anyway.

 

[Psudopod]

Originally Posted by Psudopod

Where in scripture does it to tell you to deny the evidence of God's creation in order to be saved?
​

lol, now that's a twisting of words.

No it's not. You said you would question their salvation because they are going against the bible. Where does the bible say you should deny God's handiwork?

 

[Cabal]

Wikipedia has a great write-up on Scientism.

Here's another excerpt:[/i]

Maybe attribute the excerpt, AV, rather than couch it as an absolute statement.

That excerpt was written by this guy:

Mikael Stenmark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bias much? In other words, him saying this via wikipedia and you posting it (conveniently omitting the actual citation) is no different to the usual "but science are a religion!!!1LOL" threads/posts that are ten-a-penny here on CF.

Say it as much as you like, it ain't true.

 

[jpcedotal]

Or, against your interpretation of the Bible. I find it hard to believe that you could read scripture and walk away with, "Christianity is a special club where members have to think the same thing all the time or else they're out." If that's true, who wants to belong to your club anyway?

It is not a club. In the Bible, God made a distinct difference between man and the rest of creation. Man, was not an add-on or a further purification of something else.

It is not thinking the same thing, it is believing what is in the Bible as fact. Any translation other than the literal one is "of man", not "of God".

Of course, if one doesn't believe in the one God of the Bible than there really isn't any common ground to start on.

These "facts" you keep bringing up have had opposition from other secular scientists, but still you just ignore them. So you ask, "show me these facts", I can but all that happens is the process of "naturalist" discrediting them. But what is the final verdict? The side that has the most supporters wins?...that's not fact, just majority opinion.

That is what every evolution argument comes down to in the end. More scientist believe me than you. And even that number is skewed by the opinion of the one taking the poll. Every fact I present and every fact you present has been discredited by some scientist somewhere....you dig?

 

[jpcedotal]

No it's not. You said you would question their salvation because they are going against the bible. Where does the bible say you should deny God's handiwork?

God's handiwork? Evolution is fiction, and God does not deal in fiction...only man does that...man who thinks he is just as smart as God.

 

[Sanguis]

That is what every evolution argument comes down to in the end. More scientist believe me than you. And even that number is skewed by the opinion of the one taking the poll. Every fact I present and every fact you present has been discredited by some scientist somewhere....you dig?

Acceptance of evolution is pretty much unanimous within all scientific fields.

None have been able to refute evolution, following proper scientific protocol, for 150 years. These are people that have dedicated their entire careers to studying in their fields, if evolution was falsifiable by any data currently available, then it would've been, and we'd be looking for alternatives to explain biodiversity.

I'm pretty sure every "fact" you've presented are the only faces that have been refuted a thousand times.

I suggest you stop making things up, it's painfully obvious, and really does highlight you as a fool.

 

[jpcedotal]

Acceptance of evolution is pretty much unanimous within all scientific fields.

None have been able to refute evolution, following proper scientific protocol, for 150 years. These are people that have dedicated their entire careers to studying in their fields, if evolution was falsifiable by any data currently available, then it would've been, and we'd be looking for alternatives to explain biodiversity.

I'm pretty sure every "fact" you've presented are the only faces that have been refuted a thousand times.

I suggest you stop making things up, it's painfully obvious, and really does highlight you as a fool.

And there is the final argument....when all else fails, go personal. I have no problem remaining the "ignorant fool", when it come to evolution. Don't mind me, I will be standing over here with Jesus.

God Bless and I hope you have not run out of chances to come to know Jesus Christ. I found out the hard way that you don't get to choose the "when".