Evolution is a Fact

[AV1611VET]

Can you prove that one ever existed?

QV my signature, Roland.

It's not just another pretty platitude that we like to use for bumper stickers.

We stand behind it.

 

[CoderHead]

What I use paintings of Adam for are only to demonstrate the collective agreement among the masses as to Adam's age --- that's all.

Based on...what? Nothing more than common theistic agreement and a textual statement that God created "man" instead of "boy?" Why couldn't Adam have been 13? That's mature enough to be considered a man and to be able to reproduce with Eve.

You do realize that the drawings and models of dinosaurs are based off of actual, tangible, physical bones and imprints left in rock, right? The drawings and models are used to demonstrate the reasonable size and shape of the organisms that left the evidence behind. But for some reason, you're hung up on color and skin texture (and belly buttons, I think). I'm just playing your game by your rules.

 

[Nathan Poe]

QV my signature, Roland.

It's not just another pretty platitude that we like to use for bumper stickers.

We stand behind it.

No, AV, only you stand behind it -- remember, you're an independent Baptist.

And your words by themselves don't mean a whole lot.

 

[Nathan Poe]

What I use paintings of Adam for are only to demonstrate the collective agreement among the masses as to Adam's age --- that's all.

Collective? You always agree what what the world tells you, AV?

 

[AV1611VET]

Based on...what? Nothing more than common theistic agreement and a textual statement that God created "man" instead of "boy?" Why couldn't Adam have been 13? That's mature enough to be considered a man and to be able to reproduce with Eve.

Would you let your 13-year-old son get married? Put him to work as a gardener? Or have him go out and name the animals?

But that aside --- has it occurred to you that even if Adam was 2 years old --- it's still maturity without history.

You do realize that the drawings and models of dinosaurs are based off of actual, tangible, physical bones and imprints left in rock, right?

You left a part out: "filling in the gaps".

The drawings and models are used to demonstrate the reasonable size and shape of the organisms that left the evidence behind.

What's the difference in that and what Haeckel did?

But for some reason, you're hung up on color and skin texture (and belly buttons, I think). I'm just playing your game by your rules.

I am not addressing that "color and skin texture", etc.

In fact, I plan to use that, when I talk to my pastor next, as an example of how someone (me) can point someone to a painting of Adam to show his age, only to have it Telephone-Gamed into him claiming color, height, race, skin texture, etc.

 

[AV1611VET]

No, AV, only you stand behind it -- remember, you're an independent Baptist.

And your words by themselves don't mean a whole lot.

Funny how I seem to be spotted all over the country at once, isn't it?

Driving cars with bumper stickers that say that, spotted at McDonalds with that on my t-shirt, or walking into a church that has that on display.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Would you let your 13-year-old son get married? Put him to work as a gardener? Or have him go out and name the animals?

If I were God, I'd have him killed.

Really, AV -- You realize that by ascribing human personality traits to God, all you're really doing is making Him in your own image.

Not that anyone's particularly surprised.

 

[AV1611VET]

Collective? You always agree what what the world tells you, AV?

I'm sure you've seen how I use Boolean logic to help interpret Scripture.

 

[CoderHead]

Would you let your 13-year-old son get married? Put him to work as a gardener? Or have him go out and name the animals?

At some point in history, I might have and it would have been considered normal. But now you're talking about God as though He makes decisions the same way I do. We both know that's not the case.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Funny how I seem to be spotted all over the country at once, isn't it?

Driving cars with bumper stickers that say that, spotted at McDonalds with that on my t-shirt, or walking into a church that has that on display.

I never said you were original, I just said you were independent.

Now this is a T-Shirt:

 

[Ursie]

Someone asked for specific quotes of those slinging mud, this question was asked repeatedly so I suppose it's best to put em down to quiet the questions.

"Also, seeing Ursie come in here asking why everyone assumes that Creationists are morons and then proceeding to act like a moron was pretty funny. "

"I seriously doubt anyone has ever made a claim that stupid."

"Look, no offense, but I'm not going to pander to willful ignorance."

"I'm going to be honest, if you believe that you are flat out ignorant. We know a great deal."

"Because your claim that transitional fossils don't exist is absurd.


Originally Posted by Ursie

Do you truly believe that people are complete idiots who do not agree with you about the THEORY of evolution?
​

Just ignorant."

Wow, our great Christian friend, Laconic Student seems to be the worst offender. Not representing well LS.

"When it comes to creationism you should never be shocked, they will say and do anything (no matter how crazy) to defend the beliefs of their parents, absolutely nothing is sacred, denial of everything that tells them that their parents got it wrong is the uppermost thing in their minds, all of which is perfectly understandable. "

As an aside, my father believes strongly in evolution and I really don't know what my mother believes on the subject. I've come to the belief on my own, having reviewed enough evidence to trust what the bible says. Although, even before the evidence, I knew the bible was correct. It is a spiritual thing that I'm sure you'll deny since you've not experienced it. Someone, might have been Thaumartgy(sp?) said he'd been a Christian and could never get to the bottom of it. It's a whole other discussion, but being in church, studying biblical things and having all sorts of biblical knowledge, speaking greek and hebrew......that doesn't make you a Christian. That makes you someone who knows alot about God, but it doesn't mean that you KNOW GOD HIMSELF. It might mean that, but it's not assured just because you looked heavily into the things of God. Many people come to God, but they are not willing to be humble and so they never hear from God. Moses was described as the most humble man on earth, that is why he was able to hear so clearly from God.

The things of God are a mystery and foolishness to those who don't believe. It is only as the Spirit of God brings light and understanding that we begin to comprehend the truths found in God's Word. But enough about that, when you're ready, you'll search it out for yourselves.

I believe I've demonstated that insults have been made, there are many more that are couched in very careful language throughout the entirety of this post, from the very first page. The tone of this post was, from the beginning, meant to be an argument by the original poster. That poster knew that posting "Evolution is a Fact" is an inflamatory statement so clearly his desire was for a fight.

Why you want to fight about something you so strongly believe in I don't know. It's already being taught in the vast majority of educational institutions around the world. Why is it necessary to beat that dead horse? You wonder at why creationists would argue, it is because we want, at the very least, the opportunity to teach an opposing viewpoint in the schools as well. If you are so open-minded and feel that the evidence you have can be completely supportive of the Theory of Evolution, why are you afraid to allow Creationism equal time as another 'theory'? Why is it such a threat to you if it is so completely unbelievable and insuportable? If that is true, let it be shown to be so in educational institutions. Let the students choose for themselves.

 

[AV1611VET]

Now this is a T-Shirt:

Good --- then you wear it.

Or are you like that one guy here that likes to throw John Henry Gosset (or whatever his name is) at me, but won't take his own advice?

 

[Nathan Poe]

I'm sure you've seen how I use Boolean logic to help interpret Scripture.

I don't think "boolean" is the word you're looking for.

I'd suggest a substitute, but I can't afford another red card.

 

[CoderHead]

In fact, I plan to use that, when I talk to my pastor next, as an example of how someone (me) can point someone to a painting of Adam to show his age, only to have it Telephone-Gamed into him claiming color, height, race, skin texture, etc.

And we can likewise show how someone (any of us) can point someone to a drawing of a microraptor to show its size and shape, only to have it Telephone-Gamed into him claiming that the small animal pictured in its mouth is a lizard and that it nullifies the entire image as well as the science behind it:

Interesting --- a fossil of a bird in mid flight.

Is that lizard he's carrying a fossil too?

As demonstrated in my now-reported-and-removed post containing Michelangelo's "The Creation of Adam" painting, the exact scene didn't happen but you view it as a good example of Adam's age. Given that methodology, why is a lizard tripping you up?

 

[Nathan Poe]

Wow, our great Christian friend, Laconic Student seems to be the worst offender. Not representing well LS.

You came here looking for a fight -- who are you going to point fingers at when you find one?

"When it comes to creationism you should never be shocked, they will say and do anything (no matter how crazy) to defend the beliefs of their parents, absolutely nothing is sacred, denial of everything that tells them that their parents got it wrong is the uppermost thing in their minds, all of which is perfectly understandable. "

Sounds pretty much on the money to me -- creationists, as a general rule, tend to be a desperate lot.

As an aside, my father believes strongly in evolution and I really don't know what my mother believes on the subject. I've come to the belief on my own, having reviewed enough evidence to trust what the bible says. Although, even before the evidence, I knew the bible was correct.

Was there ever a chance that evidence was going to change your stance on the Bible?

It is a spiritual thing that I'm sure you'll deny since you've not experienced it. Someone, might have been Thaumartgy(sp?) said he'd been a Christian and could never get to the bottom of it. It's a whole other discussion, but being in church, studying biblical things and having all sorts of biblical knowledge, speaking greek and hebrew......that doesn't make you a Christian.

Neither does being a Creationist -- so why not drop what doesn't work and stick with what does?

That makes you someone who knows alot about God, but it doesn't mean that you KNOW GOD HIMSELF. It might mean that, but it's not assured just because you looked heavily into the things of God. Many people come to God, but they are not willing to be humble and so they never hear from God. Moses was described as the most humble man on earth, that is why he was able to hear so clearly from God.

Do you consider yourself humble? Was it humility that brought you here?

The things of God are a mystery and foolishness to those who don't believe. It is only as the Spirit of God brings light and understanding that we begin to comprehend the truths found in God's Word.

You mean Christ.

But enough about that, when you're ready, you'll search it out for yourselves.

Already did -- it led us to where we are now.

I believe I've demonstated that insults have been made, there are many more that are couched in very careful language throughout the entirety of this post, from the very first page. The tone of this post was, from the beginning, meant to be an argument by the original poster.

And who's to blame that you took the bait and came in swinging?

That poster knew that posting "Evolution is a Fact" is an inflamatory statement so clearly his desire was for a fight.

Except it's not inflammatory -- it's a fact.

That you took it as inflamatory is a reflection on you, not the OP.

Why you want to fight about something you so strongly believe in I don't know. It's already being taught in the vast majority of educational institutions around the world. Why is it necessary to beat that dead horse?

Dover taught us that the horse is far from dead.

You wonder at why creationists would argue, it is because we want, at the very least, the opportunity to teach an opposing viewpoint in the schools as well.

You mean like alchemy, astrology, sorcery, and phrenology?

If you are so open-minded and feel that the evidence you have can be completely supportive of the Theory of Evolution, why are you afraid to allow Creationism equal time as another 'theory'?

Define "theory," and you'll see why cereationism isn't one.

Why is it such a threat to you if it is so completely unbelievable and insuportable? If that is true, let it be shown to be so in educational institutions. Let the students choose for themselves.

Let the churches preach Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism, and let the worshippers choose for themselves.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Question, Ursie:

Suppose we do decide to allow creationism in the schools -- what would a typical lesson look like?

 

[CoderHead]

"Also, seeing Ursie come in here asking why everyone assumes that Creationists are morons and then proceeding to act like a moron was pretty funny."

Addressing your PRATTs, not your person.

"I seriously doubt anyone has ever made a claim that stupid."

See above. It doesn't say, "Ursie is stupid."

"Look, no offense, but I'm not going to pander to willful ignorance."

Look up the meaning of the word "ignorant."

"I'm going to be honest, if you believe that you are flat out ignorant. We know a great deal."

See above.

"Because your claim that transitional fossils don't exist is absurd.

Your claim is absurd. And it is. Nobody attacked you personally.

"Just ignorant."

Again, look up the definition of "ignorant."

"When it comes to creationism you should never be shocked, they will say and do anything (no matter how crazy) to defend the beliefs of their parents, absolutely nothing is sacred, denial of everything that tells them that their parents got it wrong is the uppermost thing in their minds, all of which is perfectly understandable. "

Looks to be addressing an entire group of people, not you personally. I really think you need to grow thicker skin if these "insults" get to you on such a deep level.

The things of God are a mystery and foolishness to those who don't believe.

I'd quite readily agree.

I believe I've demonstated that insults have been made, ... That poster knew that posting "Evolution is a Fact" is an inflamatory statement so clearly his desire was for a fight.

No you haven't, and no it wasn't. Evolution really is a fact. It's been demonstrated.

Moses was described by himself, in his own book as the most humble man on earth, that is why he wrote that he was able to hear so clearly from God.

Fixed that for you.

 

[rjw]

QV my signature, Roland.

It's not just another pretty platitude that we like to use for bumper stickers.

We stand behind it.

Bumper stickers don't prove a claim at all AV.

If they did, then probably all claims are proved true. If not, then just make a bumper sticker.

There needs to be some way of evaluating claims, and belief + bumper sticker isn't it, surely.



Regards, Roland

 

[AV1611VET]

Bumper stickers don't prove a claim at all AV.

If they did, then probably all claims are proved true. If not, then just make a bumper sticker.

There needs to be some way of evaluating claims, and belief + bumper sticker isn't it, surely.



Regards, Roland

I don't go around "proving" things* --- I walk by faith, not by sight.

* And I guarantee you: neither do you.

 

[TerranceL]

QV my signature, Roland.

It's not just another pretty platitude that we like to use for bumper stickers.

We stand behind it.

It should be noted that AV's signature and:

MAGIC MAN DONE IT!

are the same thing.