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Ichabod 2
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Jesus was "God" manifested in the flesh; not god manifestd in the flesh. God is eternal' if Jesus was born of Mary which He was; and was not pre-exsisting then He is not God. God is one.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
1 Timothy 3:16
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
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Ichabod 2
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God is one; that is scritural something we can all agree on; BUT. No where in Bible does it say God is three persons. Without three persons you have no trinity; all you have is a doctrine from Rome.
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Anti-Trinitarians endlessly squabble and bicker about words, used by Trinitarians, trying to express the nature of God, as revealed in scripture, e.g. Trinity, triune, person," "being," "entity," "substance," "essence," nature, who," etc., etc., yada, yada, yada.
All words are inherently finite and imperfect, therefore these words, "Trinity, triune, person," "being," "entity," "substance," "essence, nature, who," and/or any other words one chooses to mention, are totally inadequate to describe God, the infinite, perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent. But the fact that human words are finite, limited and imperfect does not prove or disprove anything about the doctrine of the Trinity.
Here yet again scriptural truths I have posted before, without any so-called unscriptural words or man made doctrines.
1. There is one God! The Father is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Father is not the Son or the Spirit. Numerous vss. e.g., John 6:27, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:3, Eph 6:23, Philippians 2:11, 1 Thess 1:1, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 1:17, et. al.
2. There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Spirit.
[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[3] Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.
[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he [God] hath purchased with his own blood.
[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
3. There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27, Heb 3:7-11, Heb 10:15-17.[2] Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
[3] Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.
[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he [God] hath purchased with his own blood.
[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he [God] saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;
[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.
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1 pet 1.20 destroys your preexistant christ doctrine for that verse says Jesus was foreknown by God, not foreordained. if Jesus preexisted, then He was known by god,but the bible says he was foreknown by god, therefore Jesus did not preexist. your only alternative is to change the word of god from foreknown to foreordained, which you have done and many others as well. But the Greek word never means foreordained.
Plus 1 tim. 3.16 is another trintarian interpolation of scripture. All scriptures used to prove Jesus is god are either interpolations or have other possible non trinitarian , non Jesus is God translations.
here is the correct version of 1 tim. 3.16.. The non Jesus is God version.
(Rotherham) 1 Timothy 3:16 And, confessedly great, is the sacred secret of godliness,--Who was made manifest in flesh, was declared righteous in spirit, was made visible unto messengers, was proclaimed among nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.
Plus 1 tim 3.16 doesn't say mystery it says secret. The Greek word is musterion, which means secret and not mystery. Mystery, is the English TRANSLITERATION of the Greek word musterion.
Plus if it should read 'god was manifest in the flesh' then that means that the rest of the verse is saying that God was justified in the spirit, God was made visible to angels, god was believed on in the world, and god was taken up to glory. which is ridiculous.
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Benoni
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All these verses prove nothing and I agree with them all; God is one... Not three persons.
But what does this have to do with God being three persons? If God is not three persons and this cannot be backed with God's Word there IS NO trinity. You are trying to defend a doctrine made up by Rome and you cannot provide the key to the doctrine "three persons"?
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Benoni
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Let me put it this way. The Father in heaven is the unseen, invisible God. The Son is the visible manifestation of God in human flesh - the historic Jesus of two milleniums ago. "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him" (Jn. 1:14, 18). The Father is unseen. The Son is the visible, fleshly manifestation of the invisible God. The Holy Spirit, on the other hand, is the activity, the action, the motion, the operation, the force, the energy, the influence of God toward men. The English word "spirit" is from the Latin SPIRARE, meaning "to breathe," the words "respiration," "expiration," and "inspiration" all being derived from the same source. Similarly the Greek word PNEUMA comes from PNEO, meaning "to breathe or blow," and the Hebrew RUAHH is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. The Holy Spirit is God's breath, God's out-breathing, God's ENERGY FORCE by which He accomplishes His purpose and executes His will. Many times we have thought of the Holy Spirit as "power," and certainly He has power, but power is basically the ability or capacity to act or do things and it can be latent, dormant, inactively resident in someone or something. "Force," on the other hand, more specifically describes energy projected and exerted on persons or things, and may be defined as "an influence which produces or tends to produce motion, or change of motion." "Power" might be likened to the stored energy in a battery, while "force" could be compared to the current flowing from such battery. "Force," then, more accurately represents the sense of the Hebrew and Greek terms as relating to God's Spirit, and this is borne out by a consideration of the scriptures.
Thus, the Holy Spirit is God's ENERGY FORCE. It is God's energy force projected and exerted upon man. It is God's motion, action and influence in one measure or another upon man. Jehovah God accomplished the creation of the universe by means of His Spirit or energy force. Regarding the planet Earth in its early formative stages, the record states that "The Spirit (energy force) of God was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters" (Gen. 1:2). Ps. 33:6 says, "By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath (spirit) of His mouth." Like a powerful breath, God's Spirit can be sent forth to exert power even though there is no bodily or visible contact with that which is acted upon. Where a human craftsman would use the force of his hands and fingers to produce things, God uses His Spirit. Hence that Spirit is also spoken of as God's "hand" or "fingers." Jesus told the Pharisees, "If I cast out devils by the SPIRIT of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you" (Mat. 12:28). But Luke, in recording the same event, expresses it thus: "If I with the FINGER of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you" (Lk. 11:20). The Holy Spirit is the working, the activity of God usward.
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That's a bad translation, the Greek is 'in God's spirit", not by "ei de en pneumati ".
Also, it's not
by the finger of God" it's 'in the finger of God". " ei de en daktulw qeou " Translators are real sloppy with preposistions. en means in not by, oh sure you can find christian lexicons that say it means by, but it don't does our word in mean by course not, and neither does the Greek for for in . So your thesis is based on faulty information. Demons were cast out in the finger or spirit of God. Finger just being a personification of God's spirit. ONe version says what Jesus said, the other substitutes spirit for finger in an attempt to convey what Jesus meant. Jesus didn't mean that God has a finger. God doesn't have a finger, or an arm or a head, or a foot etc. those are all personifications. Christians seem to have an enormous difficulty grasping the concept of personification.
how do you reconcile your doctrine that the Holyben said:
spirit is an energy Force with scripture that Says god is a spirit, or is spirit?
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
also God is holy.
Leviticus 11:44 For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
If God is a spirit and and God is holy, and that holy spirit is energy force, then logically that would mean that god is an energy force. Or it would mean that god who is a spirit has a holy spirit, thus one spirit has another spirit.
Also, since you come to believe that the holy spirit is an energy force because of the word pneuma, which means spirit, wouldn't that also mean that all spirits are just energy forces? I see nothing in your rational that limits the holy spirit to being an energy force and not other spirits as well. If the holy spirit is an energy force because it is a spirit, then logically all spirits are energy forces. If the Holy Spirit isn't a spirit but is an energy force, then why didn't god call it an energy force instead of a spirit? Surely one is capable of saying energy force in Greek. wouldn't that mean that god lied when he called the holy spirit a spirit if it isn't a spirit but is an energy force?
For these reasons I find the doctrine that the holy spirit is an energy force unteneable.
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redcliffesalvo
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Study the following verses, read them in context in the Bible, and see if you can figure out what is going on. If you can't, continue reading and you'll be pleasantly surprised.
These verses are taken from the New American Standard Bible. Please note that "LORD" is equivalent to YHWH, Yahweh, and Jehovah which is the name of God.
Plurality of God:These verses are taken from the New American Standard Bible. Please note that "LORD" is equivalent to YHWH, Yahweh, and Jehovah which is the name of God.
- Gen. 1:26, "Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness..."
- Gen. 19:24, "Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven."
- Amos 4:10-11, "I sent a plague among you after the manner of Egypt; I slew your young men by the sword along with your captured horses, and I made the stench of your camp rise up in your nostrils; yet you have not returned to Me,' declares the LORD. I overthrew you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah...'"
- Isaiah 44:6, "Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts: I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides me..." See also, Isaiah 48:16.
- Gen. 17:1, "Now when Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am God Almighty; walk before Me, and be blameless."
- Gen. 18:1, "Now the LORD appeared to him by the oaks of Mamre, while he was sitting at the tent door in the heat of the day."
- Ex. 6:2-3, "God spoke further to Moses and said to him, I am the LORD; and I appeared to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name LORD I did not make myself known to them.'"
- Exodus 24:9-11, "Then Moses went up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel, and they saw the God of Israel; and under His feet there appeared to be a pavement of sapphire, as clear as the sky itself. Yet He did not stretch out His hand against the nobles of the sons of Israel; and they beheld God, and they ate and drank."
- Exodus 33:11, "Thus the LORD used to speak to Moses face to face, just as a man speaks to his friend..."
- Num. 12:6-8, "He [God] said, "Hear now My words: If there is a prophet among you, I, the LORD, shall make Myself known to him in a vision. I shall speak with him in a dream. Not so, with My servant Moses, He is faithful in all My household; with him I speak mouth to mouth, even openly, and not in dark sayings, and he beholds the form of the LORD..."
- Acts 7:2, "And he [Stephen] said, "Hear me, brethren and fathers! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran...."
- Exodus 33:20, "But He [God] said, You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!'"
- John 1:18, "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten God, who is in the bosom of the Father; He has explained Him."
- 1 Tim. 6:16, "[God] who alone possesses immortality and dwells in unapproachable light; whom no man has seen or can see."
- John 6:46, "Not that any man has seen the Father except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father."
- John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am."
- Exodus 3:14, "And God said to Moses, I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.'"
- Zech. 12:10, "And I [God] will pour out on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the Spirit of grace and of supplication, so that they will look on Me whom they have pierced; and they will mourn for Him, as one mourns for an only son..."
At first, this is difficult to understand. God Almighty was seen (Ex. 6:2-3) which means it was not the Angel of the Lord, for an angel is not God Almighty, and at least Moses saw God, not in a vision or dream, as the LORD Himself attests in Num. 12:6-8. If these verses mean what they say, then we naturally assume we have a contradiction. Actually, the contradiction exists in our understanding, not in the Bible--which is always the case with alleged biblical contradictions.
The solution is simple. All you need to do is accept what the Bible says. If the people of the OT were seeing God, the Almighty God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God Almighty, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I suggest that they were seeing the Word before He became incarnate. In other words, they were seeing Jesus; compare John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14 above.
If God is a Trinity, then John 1:18 is not a problem either because in John chapter one, John writes about the Word (Jesus) and God (the Father). In verse 14 it says the Word became flesh. In verse 18 it says no one has seen God. Since Jesus is the Word, God then, refers to the Father, and the apparent contradiction is easily resolved, especially when this is examined in the light of Jesus' words in John 6:46 where He said that no one has ever seen the Father. Therefore, Almighty God was seen, but not the Father. It was Jesus before His incarnation. There is more than one person in the Godhead and the doctrine of the Trinity must be true.
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Benoni
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Difference between you and I is I am describing who God is using words as examples and backing these words with the Bible; for God is one; not three persons. You do not like concept of an energy force not a big deal; you are on the other hand are worshiping a doctrine but are missing the key point; that point being that God is three persons. You do not acknowledge this non scritural FACT. You cannot show me this FACT, no matter what language or spin you try to give me. The Bible DECLARES God is one and I could care less what the Pope believes and the 10,000 daughters of Baby-lon believes; no where does it say God is three persons. You have no key. God is one; that is scriptural and three persons is not; if you cannot prove the three persons you have a false doctrine. That simple…..
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Benoni
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In the Scriptures we find the right hand of God mentioned a great many times, and the left hand of God is mentioned on a number of occasions. The word "right" as used with "hand" is generally the Hebrew word "yamiym" meaning STRONGER, MORE DEXTEROUS. The word for "left" is "smowl" meaning DARK. From the meaning of these two words it is very easy to understand that God's right hand is His strength and dexterity, or His wonderful ability to do all things. The implication is that the right hand of God is the GOOD HAND of God, doing GOOD things. But the left hand in the Old Testament means DARK And from this we can readily understand that it signifies the opposite - what we call bad or evil. The left hand represents the DARK SIDE OF GOD. This is the hand of God so little understood.
A key to this vital truth is found in the words of David in Ps. 111:7 wherein he states states, "The works of HIS HANDS are verity and judgment." God is not a man, He possesses no body such as we have, for He is omnipresent Spirit; but God has ordained the visible realm to serve as an allegory to convey the realities which pertain to the higher realm of the invisible
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example
Example: NT:5178 a : Strongs: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)
A key to this vital truth is found in the words of David in Ps. 111:7 wherein he states states, "The works of HIS HANDS are verity and judgment." God is not a man, He possesses no body such as we have, for He is omnipresent Spirit; but God has ordained the visible realm to serve as an allegory to convey the realities which pertain to the higher realm of the invisible
1 Corin 10:11 Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (age) are come. example
Example: NT:5178 a : Strongs: tupikos (toop-ee-kos'); an adverb related to NT:5179; found only in 1 Cor 10:11: as a warning, by way of example, typologically (i.e. figuratively, as a prophetic type, a typological interpretation of Scripture)
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St Ignatius the student of St John the Gospel writer believed Jesus was God
St.IgnatiusofAntioch, Letter to the Romans Address (c.110 AD)
Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in
the greatness of the Most High Father and in Jesus Christ, His only Son: to
the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God,
by the will of Him that has willed everything which is: to the Church also
which holds the presidency in the place of the country of the Romans ... To
those who are united in flesh and in spirit by every commandment of His, who are filled with the grace of God without wavering, and who are filtered
clear of every foreign stain, I wish an unalloyed joy in Jesus Christ, our
God.
St.MelitoofSardes,FragmentinAnastasiusofSinai13(c.177AD)
The activities of Christ after His Baptism, and especially His miracles,
gave indication and assurance to the world of the Deity hidden in His flesh.
Being God and likewise perfect man, He gave positive indications of His
two natures: of His Deity, by the miracles during the three years following
after His Baptism; of His humanity, in the thirty years which came before
His Baptism, during which, by reason of His condition according to the
flesh, he concealed the signs of His Deity, although He was the true God
existing before the ages.
St Ignatius not only conversed with the Apostle St John but with some of the other Apostles too. If it came down to choose whether to believe the early Church Fathers or the Watchtower society that was only formed just over 100 years ago or certain Protestants from the 16th century, then I would rather choose the Early Church Fathers that were there from the beginning and even conversed with the Apostles
God bless,
St.IgnatiusofAntioch, Letter to the Romans Address (c.110 AD)
Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in
the greatness of the Most High Father and in Jesus Christ, His only Son: to
the Church beloved and enlightened after the love of Jesus Christ, our God,
by the will of Him that has willed everything which is: to the Church also
which holds the presidency in the place of the country of the Romans ... To
those who are united in flesh and in spirit by every commandment of His, who are filled with the grace of God without wavering, and who are filtered
clear of every foreign stain, I wish an unalloyed joy in Jesus Christ, our
God.
St.MelitoofSardes,FragmentinAnastasiusofSinai13(c.177AD)
The activities of Christ after His Baptism, and especially His miracles,
gave indication and assurance to the world of the Deity hidden in His flesh.
Being God and likewise perfect man, He gave positive indications of His
two natures: of His Deity, by the miracles during the three years following
after His Baptism; of His humanity, in the thirty years which came before
His Baptism, during which, by reason of His condition according to the
flesh, he concealed the signs of His Deity, although He was the true God
existing before the ages.
St Ignatius not only conversed with the Apostle St John but with some of the other Apostles too. If it came down to choose whether to believe the early Church Fathers or the Watchtower society that was only formed just over 100 years ago or certain Protestants from the 16th century, then I would rather choose the Early Church Fathers that were there from the beginning and even conversed with the Apostles
God bless,
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the bible says Jesus was foreknown. It destroys the Jesus is god doctrine, it destroys the trinity doctrine. you guys have consistantly ignored what god said, that Jesus was forknown..
1 Peter 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,
the word of God, which says Jesus was foreknown, overrides all the so called early church fathers.
Jesus was foreknown by god, therefore he cannot be god.
1 Peter 1:20 who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was manifested at the end of times for your sake,
the word of God, which says Jesus was foreknown, overrides all the so called early church fathers.
Jesus was foreknown by god, therefore he cannot be god.
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hybrid
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before the creation of the world, jesus was chosen to be the savior. 1 pet 1:20 NIV
so what's the big deal there? if anything that the scripture imply is that christ was more fundamental or prior to creation or all things. something no mere man can claim.
you can say what was foreknown by god was the "plan'" to save mankind thru jesus. but this is a far cry to the scriptures direct reference to the person of jesus who was foreordained, not just a mere plan or idea.
so what's the big deal there? if anything that the scripture imply is that christ was more fundamental or prior to creation or all things. something no mere man can claim.
you can say what was foreknown by god was the "plan'" to save mankind thru jesus. but this is a far cry to the scriptures direct reference to the person of jesus who was foreordained, not just a mere plan or idea.
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Jesus human nature was foreknown not His divine nature; thus the above verse does not deny Jesus divinity.
Who told you thats the way you ought interpret 1 Peter 1:20?
God bless,
Who told you thats the way you ought interpret 1 Peter 1:20?
God bless,
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wow this thread is still going.
Jesus actions were foreknown in what he was going to do on earth, aka die for the sins of mankind.
if you read the surrounding verses it's pretty clear it's refering to the events of Jesus
Jesus actions were foreknown in what he was going to do on earth, aka die for the sins of mankind.
if you read the surrounding verses it's pretty clear it's refering to the events of Jesus
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Benoni
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The problem with the trinity is a doctrine of man and not scriptural based; I find it funny how you will quote a multitude of verses about who God is but cannot show me one verse that God is three person. These verses show us many things about God, but they never give us any hint God is three persons. No three persons/NO trinity.
Rome made up the word Godhead and place it in the Bible; it is a religious term and does not come from the original language but was put there by bias religious men to push the false doctrine of the trinity. God is one; not three persons; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?
Godhead .2304 theios (thi'-os);
from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity):
KJV-- divine, godhead.
2316 theos (theh'-os); of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:
God is one, the Jews believed this and God does not change.
Rome made up the word Godhead and place it in the Bible; it is a religious term and does not come from the original language but was put there by bias religious men to push the false doctrine of the trinity. God is one; not three persons; unless of course you can give me chapter and verse where it declares God is three persons?
Godhead .2304 theios (thi'-os);
from 2316; godlike (neuter as noun, divinity):
KJV-- divine, godhead.
2316 theos (theh'-os); of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with 3588) the supreme Divinity; figuratively, a magistrate; by Hebraism, very:
God is one, the Jews believed this and God does not change.
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Benoni
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Jesus is God; God is one. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh. Jesus was forknown because God caused the fall and needed a savior to reverse the curse; (In Adam all die/In Christ all will be made a live) . So God manifested himself to be a lamb slain before the foundation of the earth.
Because Jesus was a man; He was showing us who our Heaven Father was and did only the will of the Father; but He was God manifested in the flesh.
The Holy Spirit is the Jesus Christ with in us, the spirit of God with in us; but God is one; Holy Spirit a devine part of God with in each one of us capable of speaking, loving, reproving, teaching, convicting and transforming. One that will lead and guide us into all truth; no where does it say God is three persons.
iSA. 9: 6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Look at this verse; it is speaking about Jesus; or is it? God is one
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Benoni
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No what it comes down to believe God's Holy Spirit with in you or the traditions of long dead religious leaders. Just like the Jews in Jesus day who followed the religion of their day and missed the very Christ they were seeking. God Spirit of truth not men and their religions is the only sourse of truth. Anti Christ, anti anointing means the same thing.
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