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Jesus is my mother-a testimony

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Miss Shelby

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Take heart kisstheson. The members in this thread who have harrassed, strong-armed and otherwise attempted to bully you into submission are very much in need of your prayers. It's not enough for some people to plant a seed and then be silent and trust that it will take root and grow. Some people, as evidenced here, cannot accept that the spiritual progress of others is not based on their timetables, but rather on God's. They want desperately that all of the wealth of their wisdom be devoured by others so that they can feel they are leading and helping others to understand spiritual things. Unfortunatley, a lot of times this is done to excess which defeats the purpose and they leave nothing for consideration except the sound of a loud, echoey, clanging gong, which reverberates long after they've expressed themselves. It's pride they suffer from and they need your pity and your prayers.
 
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thereselittleflower

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TLF said,


"kts, please keep in mind that while such a discussion may be acceptable in other forums of CF, this is OBOB and so is Catholic and such discussions must be in keeping with the Church's teaching.

We have already presented that while it is one thing to acknowledge the maternal characteristics of God, it is an entirely different matter to CALL Jesus our MOTHER."


Ya know what TLF...this thread has been reviewed by the mods. It was shut down and then reopened.

You say "WE" Not everyone is seeing this thread the way you do. I wish you would just let it be.

That has nothing to do with whether or not we are permitted to call God/Jesus our Mother.

Would you not agree that it is important to listen when our Popes speak and accept their wisdom over those who would disagree, and take what our Popes say to heart in obedience? Doing so demonstrates a willingness to submit to the Church and Her teaching and guidance. :)

Again: regarding actually calling God "our mother", Pope Benedict XVI, as Cardinal Ratzinger prefect for the Congretation of the Doctrine of Faith,warns us:
“Christianity is not our work; it is a Revelation… we are not authorized to change the Our Father into an Our Mother

It is never wise to disregard the words of our Pope. Do you not agree?
 
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MoNiCa4316

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Hi Amy, I haven't read this whole thread yet, only your first post. I see that it's reached many pages, which probably means that it became a debate?? (I'll find out soon I guess lol). If so, I'm sorry it became a debate. :(

I'll try to reply just to what you said in the OP.

I'm so sorry you lost your mom. :hug:that's so tough. I believe that Christ can be all things to us. There are people who have lost parents, there are others who have parents but never felt loved by them.. it's good to know that our Father is the perfect Father, that no matter what things are in our past He can heal us and show us true Love. I'm very glad that He has shown this to you.

As for Jesus being like a mother. I do think that He can give people whatever they never received from their natural mothers - sadly not all mothers are loving and nurturing, neither are all fathers.. :( but as I said, God can be all things to us.

Theologically, I do believe that Mary is our Mother. I've been getting to know her more and more as my Mother during these past few months. That's not to say that I don't love my mom (on earth). She is a loving and caring person, and although our relationship isn't perfect I do love her and I think she's a good mom. And Mary is my spiritual Mother in Heaven. Lately I've been learning - through prayer, mostly - that she really loves us, more than we know..

But I see what you're saying too, that Jesus can be like a mother to us. That He has certain qualities that we usually associate with mothers.

anyway, just my two cents.. now I'll go read the thread..

God bless:hug:
 
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thereselittleflower

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well I just want us all to get along. I would simply like to talk about Jesus and how he meets us in the most difficult circumstances.

Is it necessary to do what our Pope has said is not permitted in order to do this kts?

Is it necessary to say "Jesus our Mother" and insist on doing so in order to communicate how Jesus has treated you the way a mother would? It is beautiful that He has done so. But is it necessary to insist on calling Jesus "our mother"?

Again: regarding actually calling God "our mother", Pope Benedict XVI, as Cardinal Ratzinger prefect for the Congretation of the Doctrine of Faith,warns us:
“Christianity is not our work; it is a Revelation… we are not authorized to change the Our Father into an Our Mother.”
I don't know how much clearer it can get than this.

This is the only issue those of us who have spoken up about it have with anything in the OP.

Why is it so difficult to accept the words of our Pope on this matter and present such testimony accordingly?
 
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MoNiCa4316

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I think what the Pope was referring to are those people who want to change the prayer to "Our Mother who art in Heaven.." and change the Church language to make it more "inclusive". Feminist rights and all that. I don't think that's what KTS meant at all, I don't think that she wants "Mother" to be an official 'title' of God, but just shared how He helped her in a difficult time..

let's remember that we are talking about someone's testimony and their own spiritual journey. This isn't a theological debate.

Peace :hug:
 
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kisstheson

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Kiss the Son, if I were you I would ask a mod to close this thread, and let it go, until things cool down a little. I am not, though, so do what you like
I'm cool. :cool: Eventually either we will get to the meat of this thread...talking about Jesus being all things to us. Or the debating will stop. then people will lose interest because folks love a good fight.

*do we have any good boxing smilies?*
 
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kisstheson

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I think what the Pope was referring to are those people who want to change the prayer to "Our Mother who art in Heaven.." and change the Church language to make it more "inclusive". Feminist rights and all that. I don't think that's what KTS meant at all, I don't think that she wants "Mother" to be an official 'title' of God, but just shared how He helped her in a difficult time..

let's remember that we are talking about someone's testimony and their own spiritual journey. This isn't a theological debate.

Peace :hug:
I thank thee dear friend.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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I think that there has been a lot of misunderstanding in this thread.

KTS came in here talking about who Jesus is to her.

But some others started making assumptions about what they think she said, and then arguing against those assumptions.
I'm not saying I've never done that myself. I have. But IMO it's best to ask questions first.

But really, it goes deeper. Is there a real reason to start debating theology in someone's testimony thread? That is what I'm wondering. It seems kind of heartless to me. Sorry.. just being blunt here. I think some posts in this thread have been cruel. Why? Perhaps those who made these comments just wanted to help KTS because you decided she's saying something wrong. So your intention might have been totally honorable. But please keep in mind that this is a personal topic and that making hurtful comments in an effort to promote Church teaching does not in fact promote Church teaching. It does nothing but draw people away. I've made these mistakes too. A while ago I was sharing with a family member and came across too pushy, and guess what it did.. absolutely nothing good. In fact, I totally messed up something God was doing in the person.

That being said, I think there has been a lot of overreacting and KTS is not saying what you think she's saying!

Peace
 
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benedictaoo

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Excuse me but read the OP again.. this was not just a "testimony" thread. It was to TEACH us that Jesus is "our mother..." and that is why some of us got upset becuase it is theological incorrect to say things like "Jesus is the heavenly mother" that he is "the greater mother"... or that "He feeds us from His bosom".
 
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MoNiCa4316

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KTS and Blessed Julian are both talking in symbolic mystical language. And you think it's literal. When people say that Jesus is their Mother, (and SAINTS have done this), they don't mean that He is female. But that He has motherly qualities. Which is true. If I've misunderstood the OP, Amy please correct me :)

Thanks for helping me out david. Your support here has meant a lot to me. Please pray for me if our Lord puts you on my heart. this is a very emotional subject for me. I must admit that when I think of going to mary it's scary for me maybe because my own mom forsook me. I'm used to Jesus being my shelter.

and so He is :) one thing I'm learning about Mary is that she is very happy to lead us to Him. So if you go to Mary, you'll find Jesus right there by her side too :) but if you're unsure about this, just pray about it. I think you've gotten enough pressure in this thread.

Er... aren't we overreacting here? I mean one must not treat a personal experience as if it were a treatise on dogmatic theology. If that's were the case, trust me, I would find cause to condemn each of us, myself included, as heretics, and probably of heresies you are not even aware of. What I'm trying to say is please be kind and charitable and if you feel something could be wrong then pm the person first or write it into a charitable tone.

I don't know about you, but as of myself, I have the defect that when I feel insulted, in spirit, I answer like the Chinese, I build a big, long wall.

This is very true.

It's true for me too..

hey if you guys read my journals, you'd probably call me a big heretic. LOL. That's because I'm one of those people who DOES use symbolic language.

You know those Saints who called Jesus their Bridegroom. This is also poetic mystical language. It's accepted by the Church. Yet if taken too literally it can potentially look heretical to some.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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Excuse me but read the OP again.. this was not just a "testimony" thread. It was to TEACH us that Jesus is "our mother..." and that is why some of us got upset becuase it is theological incorrect to say things like "Jesus is the heavenly mother" that he is "the greater mother"... or that "He feeds us from His bosom".

this is symbolic language. Cuz Jesus has mother like qualities. (caring, compassionate, nurturing, etc)

Jesus "feeds us from His bosom" - again - symbolism - referring to the Eucharist. When Jesus was on the Cross the soldier pierced His Heart. When we receive the Eucharist we are receiving the same Blood that came from His side then.

Bene come on I know you're good with mystical language, just think of de Montfort :)

KTS didn't mean it as literally as you think IMO.
 
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benedictaoo

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I'm really not going to have this debate Monica. Lets just say some folk have a lot of gall getting offended by the language we use to talk about Mary.

after reading carnal Jesus stories and hearing Him being called "our heavenly mother..." I'm over it.

It is not corect to keep insisting over and over that Jesus is "our mother" instead of just saying, he is like a mother.

Further more, it was indeed the point of the thread to TEACH us that Jesus is our mother...

No, Jesus is not our mother, Mary is.
 
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JoabAnias

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Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Both sexes come out of God himself.

God's Spirit (ruah) has a feminine gender (grammatically) in Hebrew.

Pope John Paul I refered to God as Mother:

"And Premier Begin recalls that the Jewish people once passed difficult moments and addressed the Lord complaining and saying: "You have forsaken us, you have forgotten us!" "No!" —He replied through Isaiah the Prophet—"Can a mother forget her own child? But even if it should happen, God will never forget his people".

"Also we who are here have the same sentiments; we are the objects of undying love on the part of God. We know: he has always his eyes open on us, even when it seems to be dark. He is our father: even more he is our mother. He does not want to hurt us, He wants only to do good to us, to all of us. If children are ill, they have additional claim to be loved by their mother. And we too, if by chance we are sick with badness, on the wrong track, have yet another claim to be loved by the Lord."
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP1PRAYR.HTM

Blessed Julian of Norwich also referred to God as Mother:
http://www.vatican.va/spirit/documen...orwich_en.html

St. Catherine of Siena (doctor of the Church) spoke of the Holy Spirit as mother:

“The Holy Spirit becomes [for people who abandon themselves to Providence] a mother who feeds them from the breast of divine charity.”
http://www.salvationhistory.com/libr...nd%20notes.pdf

In the above link, you can also read Dr. Scott Hahn's thoughts.

As for me, I think if we have a God as our Heavenly Father it would be strange to think we are without a divine Heavenly Mother and also strange to think that the Heavenly Father would be alone without a feminine companion. Since Jesus refers to his God as Father, he must be masculine in some sense of the word or after some manner of speaking -- otherwise Jesus' use of the word "Father" would be arbitrary. But maybe some persons -- namely divine persons -- are beyond romantic relationships and romance and spiritual sexuality has not a cosmic significance but is a mere detail of some finite creatures.

Some philosophers use "she" in reference to God.

No one has seen God, except Jesus Christ and He revealed Him to us as our Father but had also referred to Himself in the femine.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" -- Luke 13:34


The main problem here as I see it:

When we call God She, we begin to create God in our own image and put Him in a box which shouldn't be done because He is bigger than gender itself.

To see God as both feminine and masculine does not make one contrary to the Church as some impugn but to see Him as only Female would be naturally disordered.

To put God in any one specific gender box over the other is missing out on His fullness and to do so just goes to prove we are all struggling.

Then of course there are the matters of rationalism and modernistic errors that go to far with the idea of gender roles for God such as radical feminism, inclusive language and new age practices that I won't go into but should be avoided.

I realize the gender sense of God isn't being used as feminist or new agers do here, but rather in the theological sense, just as Jesus referred to God as Father, not in the gender sense, but in the theological.

God is provider of all things as a father, but also nurtures and protects us as a mother. Neither case is gender in a literal sense, but in the effect.

Some women, say that they can not handle the title, "Father," when speaking about God because their own fathers were so abusive that it causes problems for them.

They have the definition of what a good father is, but can't relate to it.

At that point, I'm not able to understand. My own father was also abusive, but that doesn't change my understanding of what a good father is, especially God the Father as He is the example that animates the deficiencies of what a not a good father in the first place.

Down the page under the Inclusive language heading at this link on EWTN: Bible Versions - Approved it says:

Image of God in the Differentiation of the Sexes

"God is not a solitary nature but a Communion of Persons. As noted above, the Processions of Persons (Father generating the Son, and Father and Son spirating the Holy Spirit) is reflected in the order of Man's own creation. "Let us make man in our image and likeness. Male and female he created them" (Gen. 1:26). God made the representative type Man (Adam) first, and then differentiated Man into two kinds, male and female, by creating Eve. With respect to the likeness of God's divine nature in Man, man and woman are equal. Thus, Adam is the representative type because of his humanity, not his maleness. However, with respect to the order of creating, as a created analogy to the order of procession within the Trinity, there is a first and second. Adam is analogous to the Father in coming first, Eve to the Son in coming second. Within God this is not a sexual distinction, the Eternal Word is not male or female in the divine nature, but God from God. Rather, it is an order of the procession of life and love. The Father gives life and love to the Son, and the Son returns both infinitely and perfectly, which can only be a Divine Person, the Holy Spirit."

I recommend all interested to read that whole page.

Peace and God bless,

Joab.
 
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MoNiCa4316

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I'm really not going to have this debate Monica. Lets just say some folk have a lot of gall getting offended by the language we use to talk about Mary.

after reading carnal Jesus stories and hearing Him being called "our heavenly mother..." I'm over it.

It is not corect to keep insisting over and over that Jesus is "our mother" instead of just saying, he is like a mother.

Further more, it was indeed the point of the thread to TEACH us that Jesus is our mother...

No, Jesus is not our mother, Mary is.

At this point I think I'm becoming more Marian by the day. I have a devotion to her, and I know her as my Mother.

Yet this came to me through the specific experiences I've had not through theological arguments.

What KTS is saying also came from her experience. I can't imagine what it's like to lose a parent. It's pretty awesome that she came to be a strong believer of Christ. I'd have probably become an angry atheist or something. Just be happy for her sis. If she's saying something that you think is wrong, commit her to the Lord, He knows our hearts better and can certainly do more in our souls than we can. No one has the perfect understanding. Even if KTS is wrong about this the Lord will show in His time. But I don't think she's wrong, because I think she meant something a little different than what has been criticized in this thread.

I don't understand what you are 'over' or what stories you're referring to. Can it be that perhaps the Lord knows exactly what KTS is trying to express. What you're trying to express. What I'm trying to express. Maybe we just need to trust Him and pray for each other and be patient with one another. I need to be patient more than anyone, but I'm still saying that cause that's what I believe.

Also - we all get so focused on words here at forums. meh words and just words. See how both Jesus and Mary can be called the Tree of Life. That confuses people. Why.. because we need to look beyond the words a little. If someone is expressing their experience and faith in a way unfamiliar to us, we shouldn't be quick to judge but just commit them to God. That's my opinion.

Heresy is something else. Heresy is when a person believes something incorrect. But a person can believe everything correctly simply express that in a different way. There is a distinction.

Peace
 
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