Jesus is my mother-a testimony

[benedictaoo]

True that!

One thing that I think most men don't fully understand is that any expression of physical love, for a woman, is far more than merely "erotic". Sorry I am having trouble putting this into words.

For a woman, physical love is far more connected to the heart and to the soul. Whereas for men perhpas it could be just "rank eroticism." For a woman it is more a matter of deep and personal connection.

Not trying to insult the men around here! It's just that I can see how a guy could read certain things here and jump straight to the erotic aspect, missing the way a woman might look at things, the intent of the heart.

Just want to say i am happy to see this thread turning more into true discussion of topics rather than arguing.

I never knew the Orthodox don't really like Catholic saints. I have to say I know Nothing about Orthodox belief.

No, no. not true that... what the Saints wrote was ordered and based on Divine Revelation and not based on some disordered fantasy notion of Jesus... the threads popping up here which is what Tonks is referencing, can in no way be compared to that of the Saints.

 

[kisstheson]

My only contention was that some of the saints have wrote romantic flowery language about Jesus and when read at face value without understanding the mystic's experience its bound to raise a few eyebrows. Mechthild's book was threatened to be burned. Julian of Norwhich called Jesus her mother. John of the cross referrred to Jesus as his lover who lay waiting for him. Of course this is symbolic language but the point is such language and poetry is sanctioned by the Church. And if a person wants to diss such language then they would have a long list of things to get rid of.

If I took some of these writings and posted them here without letting you know who wrote what most would be sacandalized.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

That's what I was wondering too! In my area, most Catholic churches have a statue of Therese of Lisieux in the sanctuary. Her "Story of A Soul" was the first Catholic book I ever read (besides the Bible).
I would say she was instrumental in my becoming a Catholic, and she is my confirmation saint.

I love St Therese too she's one of my favourite Saints.

 

[Amylisa]

[;50096493]No, no. not true that... what the Saints wrote was ordered and based on Divine Revelation and not based on some disordered fantasy notion of Jesus... the threads popping up here which is what Tonks is referencing, can in no way be compared to that of the Saints.[/quote]


But that is why some such as Teresa of Avila were villified in their own lifetimes....people didn't agree that it was divine revelation.

Remember, Joan of Arc for one was burned as a heretic. It wasn't until later that she was vindicated. She wouldn't recant and was killed for it.



That's why I don't get upset if people don't always agree. People are very often wrong. I can be, so can you.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I just want to say about St Teresa of Avila.. I'm reading her autobiography.. she made it SO clear that she didn't seek any spiritual experiences or visions and she wrote so much about obedience to spiritual directors on these matters; she didn't trust herself. She talks a lot about protecting yourself from illusions of the devil. So if anyone (not in this thread, but anywhere in the world) thinks that she was caught up in some sort of 'erotic' made up 'relationship' with Christ plz think again, cause there's nothing 'erotic' in her writings (only in people's minds) and she's a Saint and a doctor of the Church. I don't understand why the EO don't like her (apparently! I don't know). Cause she was just as much into the ascetic life and obedience and humility as the EO mystics she just had visions, but she WAS very careful about them..

I have more to say about this.. maybe I'll make a thread.

 

[Amylisa]

True. Many mystics were very doubtful and frightened by their own visions. And extreme form of that is the example of I think it was Saint John of the Cross. He was once asked to give his opinion of a visionary. He saw the person and asked: "Are you the young lady who our Lord speaks to?" The woman answered immediately and enthusiastically that indeed she was. He told her it was good to meet her and left. He reported she was either lying or delusional.

Now, I am sure the attitude went a long way beyond the simple admitting of the fact of the visions. But the fact remains most visionaries/mystics are vilified and/or reluctant in their lifetimes.

In fact many works from mystics are known only after their death from private journals. In their life they do not or rarely speak of it since the insights were private in nature and purpose.

That is why we must always be careful with mystical writings. My problem in this thread is not with the advice of caution...but the manner of how it is given and presented on the whole.

Awesome post and I think the exact attitude we should have. Amen.