Swingers - Swapping Partners

[chingchang]

Yes, that is what God says.

You must have access to some secret book of sayings from God that nobody else has. God does not call sex outside of marriage disgusting. That would make no sense.

CC

 

[holo]

So...in your line of thinking if a man and woman are engaged to be married and have sex that is "disgusting behavior". But...one day later they get married and have sex and now all of the sudden their sex is "wonderful"?

Apparently...

I noticed the huge difference myself. I was intimate with my partner in our committed relationship, and boy did God condemn and curse me! Then we got married, and as soon as the priest declared us husband and wife, God started blessing us! Weird how the priest got God to change his mind simply by using a power invested in him by the state. On friday the sex was sinful, it was adultery. Come saturday night, and it had magically been transformed into a wonderful blessing and God's will. Silly me who thought me and my wife's hearts meant more to God than a ceremony.

/rant

 

[Floatingaxe]

You must have access to some secret book of sayings from God that nobody else has. God does not call sex outside of marriage disgusting. That would make no sense.

CC

All sex outside of marriage is a sin. Sin is disgusting to God, no matter what it is.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Apparently...

I noticed the huge difference myself. I was intimate with my partner in our committed relationship, and boy did God condemn and curse me! Then we got married, and as soon as the priest declared us husband and wife, God started blessing us! Weird how the priest got God to change his mind simply by using a power invested in him by the state. On friday the sex was sinful, it was adultery. Come saturday night, and it had magically been transformed into a wonderful blessing and God's will. Silly me who thought me and my wife's hearts meant more to God than a ceremony.

/rant

Wow! I didn't know you actually went through with it! I am glad for you! Even though I sense facetiousness in your post, may God continue to bless your relationship.

 

[holo]

You must have access to some secret book of sayings from God that nobody else has. God does not call sex outside of marriage disgusting. That would make no sense.

I don't think God's idea of marriage is exactly like our christian (western and in fact very modern) idea of it. Try finding a church wedding in the bible, for instance. For them it was unknown, but for us it has become a requirement.

 

[holo]

may God continue to bless your relationship

He began blessing it long before you did...

edit: many christians don't care about our relationship as much as they care about our wedding contract. In fact, if they had to choose, they would rather we had a bad relationship in an official marriage, than a great relationship in an unofficial one. And now they stand in line congratulating us and being all happy for us, hypocrites. (Not evil, just religious).

Not directed at you personally, Floatingaxe, though I do find it telling that you weren't glad for me until we'd done the ceremonial part.

Anyway, I love being married

 

[Floatingaxe]

He began blessing it long before you did...

It's only what God blesses that matters, and He blesses people whom He brings together in marriage.

 

[chingchang]

It's only what God blesses that matters, and He blesses people whom He brings together in marriage.

He brought Adam and Eve together...then cursed them (did not bless them).

CC

 

[&Abel]

It's not a good thing that she was a prostitute, but it was a good thing that she lied.

My point is that what's right and what's wrong aren't always black and white.

when it comes to willful adultery it IS black and white

its not as if these ppl are in a life or death situation where they have to commit acts of fornication to survive

 

[JCFantasy23]

I don't believe it's Christian at all, no. Morally do I believe it to be wrong? No, not if that's what the people are into. I wouldn't do it personally.

 

[Floatingaxe]

He brought Adam and Eve together...then cursed them (did not bless them).

CC

God never cursed anyone but the serpent and the ground.

 

[chingchang]

God never cursed anyone but the serpent and the ground.

Wrong-o!

Genesis 3:14-24 (KJV)

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

Ummm...unless you consider 'multiplying sorrow' in childbirth and "he shall rule over thee" (not his design) and so on and so forth (highlighted above) blessings....

Clearly God cursed Adam and Eve. The idea is that Adam wouldn't have been placed over Eve and childbirth wouldn't have been painful (or AS painful) and they wouldn't have to work the ground for the rest of their lives and they wouldn't have been kicked out of the garden if they wouldn't have disobeyed Jehova.

My point is that God CAN bless what we call marriage...but that doesn't mean he does in all cases. Again...not black and white.

As you've noticed...we have gotten side-tracked. I believe adultery is a sin as clearly stated in the Bible. I DO NOT believe that adultery is a sex act. I DO believe that swinging is acceptable for thost whose consciouses it does not violate (Romans 14) and where both partners mutually consent to it.

BTW...did you know that the divorce rate among swingers is lower than that of non-swingers...and certainly much lower than evangelical Christians? I can cite studies if you're really interested...but you'll probably find a way to explain those away too.

CC

 

[sunlover1]

That's a serious thing to say about your brothers and sisters in Christ.

Which brothers and sisters? That was a very general statement (I reposted
it below for clarity)
I said, WHEN people SEEM to disregard Scripture it's a heart issue
(I should have added "often" before "a heart issue")

Would you say the same about Martin Luther? I think whenever people show the attitude that "I have the one and only true understanding of things, I am the one who follows the bible" that's a sign that they are closing their eyes and their ears

Thanks for your opinion.
This thread is about having multiple sex partners while married.
I am fully persuaded that Scripture is clear on such matters.
Perhaps I should say (in a wishy washy voice) well shoot guys
maybe Father don't mind if we just all have an orgy, I mean
sex IS where it's at after all. Now that would be a loving and
helpful answer wouldnt it?
If you disagree thats cool holo, and I'm more than happy to
entertain new ideas, but red herrings and ad hominem
just muddy the waters in a discussion.

Hello Holo.
Actually, when ppl seem to disregard Scripture it's a heart issue.
They've , as FA implied, disregarded His Voice for so long that they
can no longer hear it when and IF He speaks. They cannot hear
because their ears have grown dull, and their eyes have closed.
Jesus made that clear.

For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing,
and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes,
and hear with their ears, and should understand with their
heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[Floatingaxe]

God did not curse the woman or the man. He told of consequences, He only cursed the serpent and the ground.

He doesn't specifically bless all marriages because many people are not believers and choose their own mates. So do some Christians---they don't all ask God to provide. They do their own thing.

God blesses what He puts together, and what people offer to Him to bless.

 

[sunlover1]

BTW...did you know that the divorce rate among swingers is lower than that of non-swingers...and certainly much lower than evangelical Christians? I can cite studies if you're really interested...but you'll probably find a way to explain those away too.

CC

AWESOME. Then by all means let's SWING!
Just kidding, I know what the end result of that is.

Explain it away? If you mean an explanation,
that's easy. Why would you need to have
a divorce if you can have your cake and eat
it too?
Besides, I dont magine the enemy is butting
into those marriages much, trying to destroy
that "oneness" ahem.

What happened to covenant of marriage?
Or dont you believe in that?

 

[Floatingaxe]

AWESOME. Then by all means let's SWING!
Just kidding, I know what the end result of that is.

Explain it away? If you mean an explanation,
that's easy. Why would you need to have
a divorce if you can have your cake and eat
it too?
Besides, I dont magine the enemy is butting
into those marriages much, trying to destroy
that "oneness" ahem.

What happened to covenant of marriage?
Or dont you believe in that?

That's worth TWO thumbs!

Indeed! what would cause a depraved couple to divorce? Maybe if one decided to live right, there'd be some tension!

 

[Nadiine]

Personally I can't imagine a situation where "swinging" could to any good or be healthy emotionally or physically, or that it would not harm those involved.

But I know there are polygamists with pure hearts, who are actually following their convictions and even honestly believe that the bible says they should do it. So it's too easy to judge their motifs without knowing their hearts and intentions.

You know people's hearts are PURE?? wow, I thought only
God knew the heart.
How do you know the polygamists aren't actually men w/ control
& ego issues? Following cults & other false religions? Or perverted?

 

[Nadiine]

Compare it with stealing or killing - sure, it's wrong, but it can still actually be the right thing to do. Peter gives the hooker Rahab credit for lying and misleading some soldiers. And you can probably think of a situation where killing someone would be right, yourself. Like if you had to choose between two of your daughters and an enemy soldier.

So many christians can't handle a world that is in full colour and do their best to reduce it to black and white.

-
we can handle "colour" just fine - just don't twist the bible to say
& teach what it does not to condone lusts & desires as if God's
ok with it.
We aren't in the OT anymore, we're in the age of grace and we have
God's law written on our hearts.
The NT is clear on marriage of 1 man with 1 woman (as Jesus defined
it in Mat. 19) and the instructions for church elders to have
only 1 wife in order to be blameless.
Plus, ALL mention of the married are singular.
Ephesians 5:33
Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself,
and let the wife see that she respects her husband.

1. 1 Timothy 3:2
   A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
   1 Timothy 3:1-3 (in Context) 1 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter)
2. 1 Timothy 3:12
   Let deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
   1 Timothy 3:11-13 (in Context) 1 Timothy 3 (Whole Chapter)
3. 1 Timothy 5:9
   Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man,
   1 Timothy 5:8-10 (in Context) 1 Timothy 5 (Whole Chapter)
4. Titus 1:6
   if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination.
   Titus 1:5-7 (in Context) Titus 1 (Whole Chapter)

So obviously there was a stigma of wrongdoing in polygamy in
the NT. & obviously having sex outside marriage IS ADULTERY.
(nevermind fornication exists in marriage also)

& it's not the same as swinging anyways; where there's no
responsibility to random sexual partners - we don't attach SIN to
our faith & flaunt it as good. Period.
It's the abuse of another person for one's sexual pleasure

That isn't "color" it's evil.

 

[Nadiine]

I don't know what's worse,
ignoring the bible's obvious teachings,
or distorting them to support sin?

2 Peter 3:15-16



15 ...just as also our beloved brother Paul,
according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,
16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things,
in which are some things hard to understand,
which the untaught and unstable distort,
as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

 

[Nadiine]

I don't believe it's Christian at all, no. Morally do I believe it to be wrong? No, not if that's what the people are into. I wouldn't do it personally.

Obviously several in this forum think morality is for them to decide;
irregardless of blatant scripture that spells it out.

I can't use the conscience that we all have in this discussion, that DOES tell it's sexual sin...
becuz many sear their consciences thru sin, rebellion, or not everyone
is a Christian who may claim/think they are.

So we rely on the Bible for our facts - which is CLEAR on what
adultery is.