Swingers - Swapping Partners

[MarkSB]

" __________My comments:
___ And that is better than swinging how? Does it not still fire up the lust and ignore the spouse? To throw this comment in after the rest of your erroneous rant was comical in it's ludicrousness.

I have no problem with someone not wanting to be a swinger, but at least argue that it is not something you would do and leave it at that rather than making up and/or spreading completely unsubstantiated and erroneous "facts" . I can respect your personal view to stay away from it. Just do not use ignorance and fear of the unknown to make your case. Romans 14

That from a pastor?!?

WOW.

 

[god's_pawn]

wkonwtrtom, have you read other posts against swinging or just this one? you will find several other arguments that you should also consider particularily health issues.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Pastor of what? Shepherd of what sort of sheep?

 

[Nadiine]

My guess is that most people that insist there won't be sex in Heaven generally believe that sex is inherently unclean...or unholy.

:o
Or....... just maybe they aren't males & have sex on their minds 24/7??

Truth is...we simply don't know whether or not there will be sex in Heaven.

First off marriage is mandatory for sex. If there's no marriage in heaven, we aren't having sex.

Secondly, sex is created mainly for procreation purposes to continue
population... we won't be populating heaven either.

Lastly, who is the groom of bride in heaven? GOD IS. Christ.

Our spouse is GOD. Once we're in heaven, we are 'consumated' w/
HIM - not others.

Seems to me if you really enjoy God's gift of sex that you'd want it to exist in Heaven.

Seems to me the ONLY way to have lawful sex in God's eyes is to
BE MARRIED/covenanted.

& if you stopped to think about it, just becuz you enjoy something
doesn't mean you also want it in heaven eternally too. & then comes
the issue of who you're having the sex with - what if some married
people don't want the spouse they had in this life again?!
Speaking of partner swapping.

If sex doesn't exist...then something better will.

We have a bingo

Wrong again...in your opinion. Humble much?

ad hom much?

 

[Ebguy]

1. illicit sexual intercourse
1. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
2. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
3. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
2. metaph. the worship of idols
1. of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

I'm divorced, so I can never have sex again? EVER? Even if I were to remarry? Oh God I'm honestly starting to get sad.

 

[dayhiker]

My interaction with swinger would say that the data that wkonwtrtom to be accurate.

 

[dayhiker]

Ya, Ebguy, it is pretty say when the 2nd commandment is to love people and some Christians teach that we are never to love a spouce after we are divorce. If I beleived that list to be God will I'd be more than sad!
dayhiker

I'm divorced, so I can never have sex again? EVER? Even if I were to remarry? Oh God I'm honestly starting to get sad.

 

[Nadiine]

Ya, Ebguy, it is pretty say when the 2nd commandment is to love people and some Christians teach that we are never to love a spouce after we are divorce. If I beleived that list to be God will I'd be more than sad!
dayhiker

We follow scripture - what did Jesus say & what was the response?

Matt. 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
6"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
7They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
9"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

Jesus was very clear here that you don't just get green lights
& license to just end covenants & start new ones at will -
which get especially complicated with kids involved.

Marriage is a permanent covenant before God becuz they've
formed one new unit/family - a promise to be w/ that 1 person for life.

Whine all you want, but God's laws stand and He takes vows
extremely serious; esp. since the marital covenant is a type
of the relationship btwn. Christ and the church.

Does God just end it when we don't please Him?
There are a few reasons allowed, but not the many reasons
most people use today if they're not happy enough.

& if someone is unlawfully remarrying, they're committing
adultery. I think God takes that serious too.

But I believe this subject is veering off topic

 

[sunlover1]

Funny carnal stuff, this thread.

Marriage is a blood covenant.

Certainly sex rocks, but in Heaven? He's got
WAY better stuff for us there. Sex wont
even be on your mind (incredible huh?)

 

[holo]

Of course God doesn't want you to live the rest of your life in loneliness, just because you and/or somebody else made a mistake. Why would he?

 

[Nadiine]

Of course God doesn't want you to live the rest of your life in loneliness, just because you and/or somebody else made a mistake. Why would he?

the mistake is breaking a covenant that's permanent -
read up on vows to God.
Then read up on adultery & see if God's ok with either.

(hint: He isn't).

Christians are supposed to live by God's standards, not the world's.

If people want to live in sin & do what they want, then they chose
the wrong religion. They also need to do some soul searching
to find out what they actually believe in

 

[holo]

the mistake is breaking a covenant that's permanent -
read up on vows to God.
Then read up on adultery & see if God's ok with either.

(hint: He isn't).

Christians are supposed to live by God's standards, not the world's.

If people want to live in sin & do what they want, then they chose
the wrong religion. They also need to do some soul searching
to find out what they actually believe in

So if I just "shack up" as people like to call it, for years, have children and all, but never get married, I won't sin if I choose to marry somebody else later? But if I did get married hastily at 18, with someone I never should've married, I must either stay with her or never be with anybody else again, ever? That's God's good will for us?

 

[Nadiine]

So if I just "shack up" as people like to call it, for years, have children and all, but never get married, I won't sin if I choose to marry somebody else later? But if I did get married hastily at 18, with someone I never should've married, I must either stay with her or never be with anybody else again, ever? That's God's good will for us?

Listen, I don't need to hold your hand to tell you what the bible
says so clearly.

if you dislike that, then maybe you should rethink your beliefs or claims.

I truly get sick of all this questioning of God's EASY to grasp word on
these subjects that spell it right out for you.

All your "what if's" are simply just excuses to try to get your
own way (ie. happiness as if that's the main goal in life)
other than what God teaches & instructs of us.
The Christian life is alot more than doing whatever it takes to
"be happy". It includes suffering to obey God & putting your
flesh down to serve God instead of SELF.
Which is mainly all I see promoted in this theology area, is SELF.
If something's immoral, so what - it makes you feel good.

If you want to live like the rest of the world, then by all means
do so. But that isn't what the bible describes Christianity as.

 

[Nadiine]

does anyone know what the word "permanent" means?

Matt. 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
6"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
7They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
9"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

 

[No Swansong]

does anyone know what the word "permanent" means?

Matt. 19
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
6"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
7They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
9"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."
11But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

Well some of us do Nadine!

 

[Nadiine]

Well some of us do Nadine!

lol
I guess so....

I don't see how the bible can any more clear on it - yet people deny
even that in search of pleasure.

I doubt alot of people know what suffering for Christ means lately.
Suffering includes alot more than mere persecutions - it also means
going without things & staying pure even when we'd like something
else in life.

We lose this life to gain the next life - the next one is the most
important; instead, we see people putting ALL their stock into
being [temporarily] happy down here (usually in sin to get it).

That's not Christianity.

 

[holo]

Listen, I don't need to hold your hand to tell you what the bible
says so clearly.

if you dislike that, then maybe you should rethink your beliefs or claims.

I truly get sick of all this questioning of God's EASY to grasp word on
these subjects that spell it right out for you.

I'm asking you some simple questions based on the implications of your theology.

I find it weird that God supposedly would be OK with me marrying someone after a lifetime of shacking up, but not if I'd been married for a few years first.

Your "easy to grasp word" simply doesn't make much sense and makes God look whimsical at best, evil at worst - you yourself would probably not treat your own children like you claim God treats us.

It's not about denying what the scriptures say, it's about how we should understand them, and about the problems with some of the interpretations.

 

[No Swansong]

I'm asking you some simple questions based on the implications of your theology.

I find it weird that God supposedly would be OK with me marrying someone after a lifetime of shacking up, but not if I'd been married for a few years first.

Your "easy to grasp word" simply doesn't make much sense and makes God look whimsical at best, evil at worst - you yourself would probably not treat your own children like you claim God treats us.

It's not about denying what the scriptures say, it's about how we should understand them, and about the problems with some of the interpretations.

I'll answer it for you. God is more interested in your character than your comfort.

 

[holo]

I'll answer it for you. God is more interested in your character than your comfort.

If so, it's weird that he would condemn me for marrying someone if I've been married before, but not if I skipped the whole wedding stuff and just lived with a woman as if we were husband and wife...

The point is, if God is so "technical" about stuff, we get all sorts of "techincal" problems. I've seen christians been all OK with someone who used to be "shacking up" and then married someone else, but if they were married and that didn't work out, they're pretty much screwed. Forever.

Anyway, it's not true that God is more interested in my character than in my comfort. If he's my dad, he'll treat me like a son and not as a slave. I have a child on the way myself, and the only reason I want the child to have character is for his own comfort and well-being. Not for me or anybody else. I'm not having a child so that he or she may live up to this or that expectation or demand or set of rules, that's not what being a father is all about. But maybe I have more grace for my children than God does...

 

[sunlover1]

So if I just "shack up" as people like to call it, for years, have children and all, but never get married, I won't sin if I choose to marry somebody else later? But if I did get married hastily at 18, with someone I never should've married, I must either stay with her or never be with anybody else again, ever? That's God's good will for us?

If I may. From what I've learned about God, His good will for us is
simply that we do nothing on our own. Adams mistake was acting without
God's endorsement. When we make ourselves god, and sort of disconnect
from the Head, we find ourselves, as you said, sinning.
Our relationship isnt' based on rules, laws. That was a "shadow".
The 'real deal" is God IN us. We now HEAR His voice in every decision.
So before they said do not divorce except for adultry, now Jesus
raised the bar... Dont divorce! Period.
So NOW, there IS no excuse, because we have God in us, we actually
must rise to a higher standard of perfection! Be HOLY as our Father
is HOly.

You might say, 'so live a life of unhappiness if i hate my wife?"
NO. Learn to be content in ALL things.
Walk in the spirit rather than in the flesh.
Set your sights on things above, not on things of the earth.
Store the treasure in Heaven where nothing will eat it up.
ETC

I find it weird that God supposedly would be OK with me marrying someone after a lifetime of shacking up, but not if I'd been married for a few years first.

Again, its' not about RULES to follow, it's about following the Lord
as He leads. LETTING Him rule in every single area, every single decision.

And often we dont, and often we try and fall down and then with His
help, we get back up and try again. Why? To "make it to heaven"?
NOooooo. But because He said that if we LOVE him...
We'll.... OBEY him.
Obey what? Rules? No, His voice.

Too much free grace BS being spouted from the pulpits these days.
We need to read, meditate on, and study the Word of God and
spend time WITH Him so that we can have a clear head and a pure
heart.

3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation,
it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should
earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old
ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men,
turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,
and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=50085659#_ftn1
http://christianforums.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=50085659#_ftnref1