Pope: Saving world from homosexuality like saving rainforests

[morningstar2651]

Then why does He not once mention it? Why doesn't He give guidelines for gay marriages as well as straight marriages? Why does He only ever refer to marriage as a man and woman when giving guidelines on how marriage should be?

Such as the guideline of how to treat your multiple wives?

Exodus 21:10 If he take him another wife; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

 

[angellica]

Because the audience He was speaking to were mainly Jewish, and they did not have such things.

Jews can't be gay? What??

 

[WatersMoon110]

Loving someone as yourself does not mean abandoning your beliefs to appease that person, nor does it mean walking on eggshells so as to avoid hurting their feelings or causing controversy.

But loving someone as yourself means making an attempt to understand them, and to see things from their point of view. It means being open to compromise on many issues.

It is not loving to just condemn others.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

It said it was unnatural and a perversion. I don't see how you get healthy and wholesome from that.

You are claiming something the bible does NOT say.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Well I guess if you say you know more than me then it must be true -_-.

Is that what I said?

 

[angellica]

You are claiming something the bible does NOT say.

Romans 1:24-28

"Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator--who is forever praised. Amen. Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a depraved mind, to do what ought not to be done."

 

[angellica]

But loving someone as yourself means making an attempt to understand them, and to see things from their point of view. It means being open to compromise on many issues.

It is not loving to just condemn others.

It does not mean compromising or caving in on your beliefs and what the Bible tells us.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

Romans 1:24-28



This is the 3rd or 4th time you have posted this passage - without knowledge of what it means.

Go get some sleep - greet the Christ Child in your morning Christmas service, and we'll get back to it when you can bring something new to the discussion.

 

[morningstar2651]

Ritual sex is not the same as a relationship.

Marriage is not the same as sex.

Are we clear on these two points yet?

 

[WatersMoon110]

Jews can't be gay? What??

I would expect better from someone who so often complains that others are twisting their words...

I said, and meant, that Jews didn't have gay marriage among them. I didn't say that they couldn't be gay - because there are certainly gay (and bisexual) Jewish people that I know. I would assume that there was still some chance of their people being attracted to members of their own gender back then. But they would have acted upon it differently, as Jews living in their society (which was segregated from Roman society in many ways) back then.

I firmly believe that if Jesus were here on Earth today, He would also speak in favor of monogamous same sex marriage. Because He would be speaking to us, about things relevant to our society - just like He was speaking to them back then. They would have been pretty confused if He just randomly said "And two men can marry, or two women. God told me that was going to be cool with Him in a couple thousand years."

 

[angellica]

Romans 1:24-28



This is the 3rd or 4th time you have posted this passage - without knowledge of what it means.

Go get some sleep - greet the Christ Child in your morning Christmas service, and we'll get back to it when you can bring something new to the discussion.

I bolded where it said unnatural and perversion when speaking of homosexual sex. You said it did not say that, but it did.

 

[SiderealExalt]

If I assumed what the Bible was "telling" me was worth actually practicing. Last time I read, the bible also tells me to condemn and stone or otherwise do in unbelievers and others, and God commands some rather disgusting behavior. If I don't trust this book on issues as large as killing well...my capacity to trust it on something as trivial as sexual preference isn't going to make the cut.

I think I still prefer judging by the content of character, not on religious affiliation(or lack there of) or on sexual preference. I know I know...crazy talk.

 

[WatersMoon110]

It does not mean compromising or caving in on your beliefs and what the Bible tells us.

From my point of view, it does when what the Bible says is unethical. When it conflicts with reality, the Bible is wrong - not reality (in my opinion ).

You know, you are the first person to test my faith in Jesus, the Christ, since I converted. *shakes head sadly*

The Loving God that I (still) know would not create people who romantically love people of their own gender, and then condemn them for it.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

If I assumed what the Bible was "telling" me was worth actually practicing. Last time I read, the bible also tells me to condemn and stone or otherwise do in unbelievers and others, and God commands some rather disgusting behavior. If I don't trust this book on issues as large as killing well...my capacity to trust it on something as trivial as sexual preference isn't going to make the cut.

I think I still prefer judging by the content of character, not on religious affiliation(or lack there of) or on sexual preference. I know I know...crazy talk.

do you realize that the reason it says those things is in order to make us realize how horrible it is to break God's law and shows us the severity of it. I mean if talking back to ones parents deems the justice of stoning can you imagine what adultry and deception is like? It shows us the severity of breaking God's law. So while it is justifiable to stone a disobediant child(because every sin is as severe as requiring death) it shows that we forgive and show mercy to others. The Law paved the road to Salvation. The Law is a mirror that is used as a standard against us. It shows us that it is impossible to live a perfect life and are in need of a Savior.

 

[ChaliceThunder]

I bolded where it said unnatural and perversion when speaking of homosexual sex. You said it did not say that, but it did.

All your wishing that it did say that won't make it so.

You cannot read that passage in context, and find a blanket condemnation of homosexuality.

The only way you can find a "condemnation" of sorts, is to read it through your own prejudiced glasses.

Try again.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

Because the audience He was speaking to were mainly Jewish, and they did not have such things.

actually most of Paul's audience were Gentiles(Corinth, Ephesus, Collosia, Macedonia, Rome, etc) all gentile greek areas where homosexuality and fornication was very common,, except when he went back to Jerusalem for a little. Jude also brings it up

Jude 1:7 - Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

 

[angellica]

From my point of view, it does when what the Bible says is unethical. When it conflicts with reality, the Bible is wrong - not reality (in my opinion ).

You know, you are the first person to test my faith in Jesus, the Christ, since I converted. *shakes head sadly*

The Loving God that I (still) know would not create people who romantically love people of their own gender, and then condemn them for it.

Being a Christian means we are set apart from the world and its views and beliefs and morals. We are held to God's laws as well. God created people who commit murder and he condemns murder. He created liars, alcoholics, adulterers, etc. He hates the sin but not the sinner .

 

[morningstar2651]

do you even realize that the reason it says those things is in order to make us realize how horrible it is to break God's law and shows us the severity of it. I mean if talking back to ones parents deems the justice of stoning can you imagine what adultry and deception is like? It shows us the severity of breaking God's law. So while it is justifiable to stone a disobediant child(because every sin is as severe as requiring death) it shows that we forgive and show mercy to others. The Law is a mirror that is used as a standard against us. It shows us that it is impossible to live a perfect life and are in need of a Savior.

Actually, some sins just make you unclean until you sacrifice some animals, such as wet dreams, menstruation, and childbirth.

Leviticus 15:16-33 (New International Version)


16 " 'When a man has an emission of sperm, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has sperm on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of sperm, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
25 " 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
28 " 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
31 " 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, [a] which is among them.' "
32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of sperm, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.



Deuteronomy 23:10-11 (New International Version)

10 If one of your men is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, he is to go outside the camp and stay there. 11 But as evening approaches he is to wash himself, and at sunset he may return to the camp.



Leviticus 12

Purification After Childbirth

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding. 6 " 'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. 7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
" 'These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. 8 If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Being a Christian means we are set apart from the world and its views and beliefs and morals. We are held to God's laws as well. God created people who commit murder and he condemns murder. He created liars, alcoholics, adulterers, etc. He hates the sin but not the sinner .

So then stop forcing those outdated views on everyone else.

 

[OphidiaPhile]

Actually, some sins just make you unclean until you sacrifice some animals, such as wet dreams, menstruation, and childbirth.

Leviticus 15:16-33 (New International Version)


16 " 'When a man has an emission of sperm, he must bathe his whole body with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 17 Any clothing or leather that has sperm on it must be washed with water, and it will be unclean till evening. 18 When a man lies with a woman and there is an emission of sperm, both must bathe with water, and they will be unclean till evening.
19 " 'When a woman has her regular flow of blood, the impurity of her monthly period will last seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean till evening.
20 " 'Anything she lies on during her period will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 21 Whoever touches her bed must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 22 Whoever touches anything she sits on must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening. 23 Whether it is the bed or anything she was sitting on, when anyone touches it, he will be unclean till evening.
24 " 'If a man lies with her and her monthly flow touches him, he will be unclean for seven days; any bed he lies on will be unclean.
25 " 'When a woman has a discharge of blood for many days at a time other than her monthly period or has a discharge that continues beyond her period, she will be unclean as long as she has the discharge, just as in the days of her period. 26 Any bed she lies on while her discharge continues will be unclean, as is her bed during her monthly period, and anything she sits on will be unclean, as during her period. 27 Whoever touches them will be unclean; he must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.
28 " 'When she is cleansed from her discharge, she must count off seven days, and after that she will be ceremonially clean. 29 On the eighth day she must take two doves or two young pigeons and bring them to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 30 The priest is to sacrifice one for a sin offering and the other for a burnt offering. In this way he will make atonement for her before the LORD for the uncleanness of her discharge.
31 " 'You must keep the Israelites separate from things that make them unclean, so they will not die in their uncleanness for defiling my dwelling place, [a] which is among them.' "
32 These are the regulations for a man with a discharge, for anyone made unclean by an emission of sperm, 33 for a woman in her monthly period, for a man or a woman with a discharge, and for a man who lies with a woman who is ceremonially unclean.



Deuteronomy 23:10-11 (New International Version)

10 If one of your men is unclean because of a nocturnal emission, he is to go outside the camp and stay there. 11 But as evening approaches he is to wash himself, and at sunset he may return to the camp.



Leviticus 12

Purification After Childbirth

1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period. 3 On the eighth day the boy is to be circumcised. 4 Then the woman must wait thirty-three days to be purified from her bleeding. She must not touch anything sacred or go to the sanctuary until the days of her purification are over. 5 If she gives birth to a daughter, for two weeks the woman will be unclean, as during her period. Then she must wait sixty-six days to be purified from her bleeding. 6 " 'When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. 7 He shall offer them before the LORD to make atonement for her, and then she will be ceremonially clean from her flow of blood.
" 'These are the regulations for the woman who gives birth to a boy or a girl. 8 If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean.' "

That is all rather ridiculous and now it is unclean to have sex when the woman is on her period which is oddly enough often the height of the sex drive.