On atheists and Hell...

[PreachersWife2004]

...and a pastor's wife saying the things you're saying.

Which is what? Other than "please answer the question posed rather than insulting people".

And I would forgive you, but you believe that what you say is just fine when you say it to me.

Again, what exactly is that I've said to you that is so horrible? I told you I would pray that God grant you more discernment and you answer back that you hope that my husband shows better discernment in leading his congregation than he did in choosing his wife. You've chosen to personally insult me on several levels, yet all I've done is tell you that there are better ways to bring the gospel to people and ask you to explain how you came to the conclusion you did when you read Romans.

And I'm well versed with the "pearls before swine" verse. If I didn't have a grasp of what it really means, I'd be totally offended, but you don't me even remotely close enough to know whether I'm "swine" or not. If you'd look past the surface of what you THINK you see, you'd see that I am the farthest thing from the swine mentioned in that verse.

You're beating on the wrong person, Jim. And everyone is reading it right here in this thread.

 

[truthshift]

This place is where sound doctrine goes to die.

I'm sorry but I have to make note that if it were sound, it wouldn't die.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I'm sorry but I have to make note that if it were sound, it wouldn't die.

 

[PastorJim]

You're beating on the wrong person, Jim. And everyone is reading it right here in this thread.

Well, like they say, you can tell a lot about somebody's character by their friends.

 

[PastorJim]

How about answering the question instead of responding with what could be considered a put down?

I answered the question several times.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Well, like they say, you can tell a lot about somebody's character by their friends.

So what do you think of Jesus hanging out with the tax collectors and the prostitutes? You must think quite lowly of Him based on that sentence.

I happen to love everyone and have a desire that all be saved (even if those in this thread disagree with that). As I've said, most of these people probably don't agree with much of my theology. But I cherish them anyway, and I still pray for them.

 

[TheBear]

The Bible never says anything about "accepting Jesus". To the contrary, it tells us that it's up to Jesus to accept us.



Not what the Bible teaches.

Regardless... Since I don't believe in Jesus Christ, I apparently haven't been accepted. Are you suggesting that I will be accepted before my death? Or what? Do I have no say in the matter?



What does it teach regarding people who haven't accepted Jesus Christ as their Savior? As far as I've understood, people either go to Heaven or Hell.

It doesn't say anything about them because the concept of "accepting Christ" isn't found any where in scripture.

Alright... let me rephrase:

"What does the Bible say concerning people who do not believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior?"

Better?

I think what you mean is, "what does the Bible say about people who are not born again, who have not repented of their sins and put their faith in Christ's atonement on their behalf".

It says they face God's wrath on Judgement Day and go to Hell.

Wow. That was like pulling teeth. Why did we have to go through all the semantics hoops to get your answer? Why all the playing dumb with what he was getting at, when you knew the gist of his question all along?

 

[PastorJim]

Wow. That was like pulling teeth. Why did we have to go through all the semantics hoops to get your answer? Why all the playing dumb with what he was getting at, when you knew the gist of his question all along?

No, the only thing I knew about his question was that he was deliberately misrepresenting what Christianity teaches in order to paint Christianity in a bad light.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Ah, yes, the mythical Emergent Church movement Jesus.



Except for me, who you treat like [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].

And again, I say, show me where I did this.

 

[Tenebrae]

Ah, yes, the mythical Emergent Church movement Jesus.

That would be the biblical Jesus, unless you are insinuating that the parts where Jesus ate with tax collectors or allowed a woman of ill repute to wash his feet with her hair are additions to the primary account

Except for me, who you treat like [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].

Theres that whole golden rule thing, treat other people as you want to be treated.

Be rude to people, refuse to answer their questions, and generally hostile, don't be surprised when you get a less than charitable response back. However when you stop acting like a cat backed into a corner, hissing and spitting at anyone that comes near you or asks you a question you dont know the answer too, you'll find people treat you a lot differently

 

[TheBear]

If I knew you wouldn't budge off the train tracks no matter how hard I pushed, but I kept telling you about the train coming, would your death still be on my hands when the train came and killed you?

But how would you know the train was coming?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

But how would you know the train was coming?

Because I had the schedule.

 

[God-free]

I've only read about half the comments so far. No-one seems to have addressed this.
(bolding mine)

What I'm having trouble with is the inexplicable injustice which is a person who, simply for not believing in Jesus Christ, will be sent to be tortured for all eternity in the fiery pits of Hell. What that makes me think of is a petty God.

What it makes me think is that you really don't care what Christianity teaches because nowhere in the Bible or in Christian teaching will you find that people go to Hell because they don't believe in Jesus.

John 3:18 (KJV)
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
​

There it is.

~Barbara

 

[TheBear]

....

 

[TheBear]

Because I had the schedule.

Was it an old, outdated schedule, or a current schedule?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Was it an old, outdated schedule, or a current schedule?

all of the above. just in case. But in seriousness, the schedule never really changes. Some might look at 23:00 and not understand what it means, but it still means 11:00pm.

I totally used this train analogy on another board somewhere and the person that I was talking to and I went off on such a tangent that we totally forgot what the initial question was.

 

[TheBear]

all of the above. just in case. But in seriousness, the schedule never really changes. Some might look at 23:00 and not understand what it means, but it still means 11:00pm.

I totally used this train analogy on another board somewhere and the person that I was talking to and I went off on such a tangent that we totally forgot what the initial question was.

I understand.

So, you have a schedule and there are tracks. The person can see and feel the tracks. I doubt the person would say to you - "There are no such things as trains."

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I understand.

So, you have a schedule and there are tracks. The person can see and feel the tracks. I doubt the person would say to you - "There are no such things as trains."

Maybe not...but the analogy works to a certain degree. They might actually believe that there are trains, but they don't believe that one is on its way, even though I have the schedule and I've shown it to them.

I know many people poo-poo Hell. I'm not one of them. I don't live in fear of it, obviously, but the thought that some of my friends would be there doesn't set well with me.

 

[TheBear]

Maybe not...but the analogy works to a certain degree. They might actually believe that there are trains, but they don't believe that one is on its way, even though I have the schedule and I've shown it to them.

I know many people poo-poo Hell. I'm not one of them. I don't live in fear of it, obviously, but the thought that some of my friends would be there doesn't set well with me.

It's about putting the cart before the horse. The existence of a god needs to be established first. The next thing that needs to be established is the God of the Bible specifically. After that, a specific interpretation of the Bible needs to be established. Only after all that is established can you go forth with any warnings.

The way you're approaching it bypasses most of the above, and goes straight for the warning. It's more akin to warning someone sitting on a park bench, that they need to get up because a train is coming.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

It's about putting the cart before the horse. The existence of a god needs to be established first. The next thing that needs to be established is the God of the Bible specifically. After that, a specific interpretation of the Bible needs to be established. Only after all that is established can you go forth with any warnings.

The way you're approaching it bypasses most of the above, and goes straight for the warning. It's more akin to warning someone sitting on a park bench, that they need to get up because a train is coming.

Oh, hell is one of the last things I talk about with atheists generally. I'd rather bring people by talking about the love that God has for his people, not by scaring them into not wanting to go to Hell.

These days, I haven't done much witnessing to many atheists. I was too busy doing other things. I just hope that my presence here isn't taken as me trying to get y'all to believe - I hope my presence here can brighten at least a couple of people's days, whether you are Christian or not...

I've heard great things about you, Bear. I can totally say that those people were spot on.