Why does it seem that Christians fear inquiry?

[DarkProphet]

The GA forum being closed is one sign of this but overall I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

 

[Ikuis]

The GA forum being closed is one sign of this but overall I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

I think this is a good topic to talk about.

Essentially, I think it is worth remembering that Christian belief is not the end qualification of a period of study and a qualifying exam like a university degree. In fact I am sure that all Christians will immediately agree that they do not understand everything (or sometimes even very much) of all the details of what their faith is about. This is particularly so in areas of Christian practice which are not clearly defined by rules and regulations. For example, the quantity of water in baptism, how to respect the Holy Day, how spiritual gifts are manifested, and so on. Therefore, there is a natural reluctance to risk spreading erroneous information when one is unsure.

It is also a characteristic of being Christian that one is always "in the process of becoming". No-one reaches the point of being a "perfect Christian". Therefore there are always weaknesses in certain areas as we evolve from the "milk" to the "meat" of our faith. Therefore we often have ourselves as many questions as we feel we have answers!

This means many Christians are sometimes shy or worried about debating Christian issues because they feel inadequate or they fear attack against their weaknesses even though their core faith in Jesus Christ is invincible.

In addition, faith is an intensely personal matter that forms part of our deepest self-awareness and the foundations upon which we build our conception of existence and our place, purpose, and future within the universe. Humans do not generally readily offer their personal issues simply for open criticism by others, and this is especially true of one's faith. However, when one feels that exposing such issues may be of help and genuine interest to others then we usually find Christians are delighted to share their beliefs and experiences, and even their doubts and problems, too!

I guess there are two principle different approaches to discussing Christian beliefs. One is apologetics, where I think Christians are more sensitive to determining whether enquiries are genuine or simply attacks, and the other is evangelical, where they are taking the Christian message out into the world. In this latter case, Christians readily anticipate argument and defence from those they are preaching to.

I am sure there is a lot more to say here, but I would like to emphasise that an apparent reluctance or fear to meet enquiries is not a reflection of weakness in the faith itself, rather it is a measure of the personal readiness, motivation and spiritual guidance within the person themselves combined with their discernment of the authenticity and intention of the enquirer.

Three biblical guidelines:

"...Therefore go and make disciples of all nations..." Matt 28:19

"Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience..." 1 Pet 3:15-16

"Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces" Matt 7:6

I think these tell us to a) take the initiative in talking about our faith, b) be always ready and willing to discuss and explain it whenever asked, and c) avoid unnecessary and futile conflict by withdrawing from, or avoiding, deliberate and malicious attacks from the outside.

Open, well-intentioned and positive discussion is of benefit and edification for all parties, both believer and non-believer, and I do not recall having seen Christians reluctant to participate in discussions within that kind of framework.

 

[AV1611VET]

The GA forum being closed is one sign of this but overall I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

We're scared you guys won't understand us; and speaking from experience, that's a well-founded fear.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 

[Chesterton]

The GA forum being closed is one sign of this but overall I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

I’ve found the opposite; I’ve found that Christians generally welcome inquiry into their beliefs. One reason I became a Christian is that the world view presented by the Christian faith holds up better under inquiry than any other “system” I inquired about.

I’d only been a member of CF for about half a year, and in GA I saw everything but the kitchen sink thrown at Christianity; so much so that even in that short a time the questions started repeating themselves such that they fell into one of several categories (the problem of evil, the justice of hell, etc.).

And I don’t know fully the site’s reasons for closing GA, but I could see that there was too little inquiry, and too much outright mockery, antagonism and attempts at de-conversion. In one of the last threads after the announcement of the closure, several non-Christians admitted they would miss the entertainment value of GA. None of them lamented the fact they couldn’t make inquiry or read apologetics.

Inquire all you want; it's welcome. Of course that doesn’t mean we have an answer to every question, any more than scientists have an answer to every question about the physical universe.

 

[RobinRedbreast]

I have no personal issues with inquiry. I used to be an atheist, I only ended up a Christian through very serious inquiry.

However, here's the problem we most often come across: There is many a non-Christian who does not wish to "inquire" for any purpose other than to create issues. Flaming, baiting, mocking, belittling, and basically everything that falls under the "flaming" rule of CF: This is a very common trend in the so-called "inquiry" phase that some people embark on around Christian Forums.

So for me, truthful honest inquiry is very welcome. When I was an atheist, I sought out God truthfully and lo and behold I found Him. I went with an open heard and an open mind to learning and discovering and re-discovering things I thought I already had the answers to.

Many people enter the so-called "inquiry" process with a closed mind, at best, at worst a negative attitude full of hatred, malicious intent, and a "I'll prove you wrong" attitude. None of this will get a person anywhere, and these traits are not indicative of anyone seeking answers. A person who comes into an inquiry with a stand-offish nature only serves to debate for the sole purpose of debate; not, I imagine, for the purpose of truly seeking answers which may be different from what he or she thought the answer woudl be. This is the key. In an inquiry process, you must be open to finding answers you never thought were even possible. If you are set in your ways, your mind will absorb very little new information.

Inquiry, as defined by wikipedia: Inquiry or enquiry[1] is any process that has the aim of augmenting knowledge, resolving doubt, or solving a problem.

You cannot solve a problem if you start out by saying "There is no solution", you cannot resolve doubt by saying "I will always doubt, this will never change", and you cannot augment knowledge by saying "I am right, and you are wrong, that is simply the way it is" -- however, each of these attitudes? Is almost always present in your average "inquiry" that I see on a regular basis. When the beginning of the process is flawed, nothing but rotten fruit is produced, instead of good fruit.

Anyway, that's my take on things


Reminder:

I will remind you all at this time, that ranting/raving/debating/complaining about the rules or staff actions in public is prohibited (no one has done that yet, just making sure you remember ) and discussion of previous staff actions such as the closure of GA will be carefully watched, because in the past these conversations have proven to get quite off-topic. If you have questions about the closure of GA, please seek counsel from a staff member in private. I must request at this time that any specific discussion of the closure of GA should not to continue on in public.

I will give this thread the benefit of the doubt, and assume you can head this warning. Please stick to the actual topic at hand, which is a very valid one: "I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?"

 

[Ikuis]

I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

DP, I think it would be helpful if you could explain a little more about your interest in this issue. Do you find it difficult to find Christian commentary about their faith? Are there areas where you are particularly lacking in assistance?

When I think about it, I am not so sure that "fear" is the correct term - certainly there are times and situations when one is reticent to be drawn into conflict for nothing more than its own sake. But that in itself is a Christian behavioural characteristic, and, I think, one to be proud of:

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Rom 12:18

Sound communication, especially regarding faith matters, is important, and so could you add a little more explanation why and how you experience this, why you think this is the case, and why this is a frustration for you? - or have we already answered your query sufficiently?

 

[salida]

Scared? Hmm, that depends on the christian. Bring it on sir. I'm certainty not afraid - I welcome it very much.

 

[DarkProphet]

I think these tell us to a) take the initiative in talking about our faith, b) be always ready and willing to discuss and explain it whenever asked, and c) avoid unnecessary and futile conflict by withdrawing from, or avoiding, deliberate and malicious attacks from the outside.

Open, well-intentioned and positive discussion is of benefit and edification for all parties, both believer and non-believer, and I do not recall having seen Christians reluctant to participate in discussions within that kind of framework.

I have, all the time in the old forum and in person. For example, a while ago an immature poster pointed out a story that made Catholics look bad (they were sending death treats over a wafer). Yes, this opened up hostilities but it also opened up an opportunity for Catholics to explain their beliefs. No one took that opportunity, even when asked to.

 

[DarkProphet]

We're scared you guys won't understand us; and speaking from experience, that's a well-founded fear.

This is a valid point. Our differing use of words hampers communication. For example, when someone says God IS love, how am I supposed to take that? I don't believe in God and love is a feeling so am I supposed to assume that God is simply a feeling? Or when someone says that they "talk" to God, what does that mean? That they have full on conversations with God or that it's all one way?

Communication in this context is an uphill battle but just because it's hard doesn't mean all attempts should be cut off.

 

[DarkProphet]

I’ve found the opposite; I’ve found that Christians generally welcome inquiry into their beliefs. One reason I became a Christian is that the world view presented by the Christian faith holds up better under inquiry than any other “system” I inquired about.

I’d only been a member of CF for about half a year, and in GA I saw everything but the kitchen sink thrown at Christianity; so much so that even in that short a time the questions started repeating themselves such that they fell into one of several categories (the problem of evil, the justice of hell, etc.).

And I don’t know fully the site’s reasons for closing GA, but I could see that there was too little inquiry, and too much outright mockery, antagonism and attempts at de-conversion. In one of the last threads after the announcement of the closure, several non-Christians admitted they would miss the entertainment value of GA. None of them lamented the fact they couldn’t make inquiry or read apologetics.

Inquire all you want; it's welcome. Of course that doesn’t mean we have an answer to every question, any more than scientists have an answer to every question about the physical universe.

The problem is that you seem content with the unanswered questions, even the big ones like what does it take to get into heaven or how can you be sure God is really like you think he is?

 

[DarkProphet]

Many people enter the so-called "inquiry" process with a closed mind, at best, at worst a negative attitude full of hatred, malicious intent, and a "I'll prove you wrong" attitude. None of this will get a person anywhere, and these traits are not indicative of anyone seeking answers. A person who comes into an inquiry with a stand-offish nature only serves to debate for the sole purpose of debate; not, I imagine, for the purpose of truly seeking answers which may be different from what he or she thought the answer woudl be. This is the key. In an inquiry process, you must be open to finding answers you never thought were even possible. If you are set in your ways, your mind will absorb very little new information.

What if the answer is that there is no answer? What then?

 

[DarkProphet]

DP, I think it would be helpful if you could explain a little more about your interest in this issue. Do you find it difficult to find Christian commentary about their faith? Are there areas where you are particularly lacking in assistance?

When I think about it, I am not so sure that "fear" is the correct term - certainly there are times and situations when one is reticent to be drawn into conflict for nothing more than its own sake. But that in itself is a Christian behavioural characteristic, and, I think, one to be proud of:

"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone." Rom 12:18

Sound communication, especially regarding faith matters, is important, and so could you add a little more explanation why and how you experience this, why you think this is the case, and why this is a frustration for you? - or have we already answered your query sufficiently?

It's hard to take the GA closer as anything other then a sign of fear but beyond that there have been times where Christians in person have been reluctant to talk about their faith. This is important because their faith is what (in theory at least) drives their actions.

An example, an ex-Christian friend of mine and me were talking about children being obedient to their parents. My ex-Christian friend made the point that commandment to obey your parents assumes that the parents are following Christian principles and if they don't then the child is free that obligation. I said that Leviticus tells parents to stone their children if they become disobedient so they would never get the chance. When we asked our Christian friend's (who happens to be a youth minister) opinion on this he quickly changed to subject without answering.

 

[DarkProphet]

Scared? Hmm, that depends on the christian. Bring it on sir. I'm certainty not afraid - I welcome it very much.

Unfortunatly your fellow Christians have barred me from taking you up on that.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If inquiry was feared here how are you able to ask anything here of christians and christianity? You asked youre OP didnt you? You can easily ask other questions too.

 

[RobinRedbreast]

What if the answer is that there is no answer? What then?

"There is no answer" is still an answer.

Everything has an answer. However.. not every answer is, or ever will be, known to man. The nature of a mortal life. *shrugs* We will never comprehend all that is.

I'm ok with that. I'd give myself an anurism trying to come up with every single answer to every single question. I'm ok with some things being a mystery and being able to say "You know, I don't really know."

Truth is, at the end of the day, everyone's faith requires a leap to cross bounds where there may "appear" to be no answer. That appearance is more or less an illusion of sorts, but for us as mortal beings? We have to make due with what we can understand and comprehend.

This is why people who refuse to settle for anything less than 100% concerete physical/spoken/shown-to-the-eyes proof, will most likely never be satisfied. That doesn't perturb me any. I am not responsible for anyone's salvation but my own. Each person will explore in his or her own way.

Unfortunatly your fellow Christians have barred me from taking you up on that.

If you want to discuss with him, go for it PM him, have at 'er. Fact is, if the discussion is only good in public, that is indicative of a problem. We have always had Private Messages here at CF, everyone is free to use them at their own leisure

 

[DarkProphet]

If inquiry was feared here how are you able to ask anything here of christians and christianity? You asked youre OP didnt you? You can easily ask other questions too.

I cannot ask ANYTHING, many things I would want to ask would probably be viewed as "blasphemy". In anycase, when I was able to ask more in the old forum Christians would frequently give a non-answer and then run away when asked to clarify. This is also relating to a general trend among Christians to cut off discussion.

 

[DarkProphet]

"There is no answer" is still an answer.

Everything has an answer. However.. not every answer is, or ever will be, known to man. The nature of a mortal life. *shrugs* We will never comprehend all that is.

I'm ok with that. I'd give myself an anurism trying to come up with every single answer to every single question. I'm ok with some things being a mystery and being able to say "You know, I don't really know."

Truth is, at the end of the day, everyone's faith requires a leap to cross bounds where there may "appear" to be no answer. That appearance is more or less an illusion of sorts, but for us as mortal beings? We have to make due with what we can understand and comprehend.

This is why people who refuse to settle for anything less than 100% concerete physical/spoken/shown-to-the-eyes proof, will most likely never be satisfied. That doesn't perturb me any. I am not responsible for anyone's salvation but my own. Each person will explore in his or her own way.

Except that all logic and evidence points away from your God. All questions that would reveal more leading to your God yield nothing. How am I supposed to take that?

If you want to discuss with him, go for it PM him, have at 'er. Fact is, if the discussion is only good in public, that is indicative of a problem. We have always had Private Messages here at CF, everyone is free to use them at their own leisure

But public discussion that might make Christians or Christianity look bad is barred. Fine, this is your board but you will have to coincide that makes your position look weak.

 

[Angel4Truth]

Unfortunatly your fellow Christians have barred me from taking you up on that.

You are aware that Cf has a pm system you arent barred from using if you want a conversation with them yes?

 

[aiki]

Except that all logic and evidence points away from your God. All questions that would reveal more leading to your God yield nothing.

My experience of where logic and evidence takes me relative to God has been quite the opposite.

[/QUOTE]How am I supposed to take that?[/QUOTE]

I'm assuming this is a rhetorical question? Quite obviously, you will take it as your bias allows.

Peace.

 

[RobinRedbreast]

But public discussion that might make Christians or Christianity look bad is barred. Fine, this is your board but you will have to coincide that makes your position look weak.

We have debate sections on CF for the purpose of.. well, debate. Where people do discuss the things we do NOT allow to be discussed or debated elsewhere. The format for the forum you are in is locked with specific rules; however, there are other forums in which to participate, if that is what you are looking for. Ethics and Morality, for instance, might be more to your liking if it is a back-and-forth nature you are seeking.

However, side-bar discussions within a thread back-and-forth between two members are not permitted here, not because it "makes us look bad", but because it derails the thread in question away from the specified purpose of Exploring Christianity.

Brings me to my next question...

How do you feel the answers we could give to your question here will help you on your personal journey as a seeker? The purpose of EC is of course for non-Christian seekers with genuine questions to post and receive insight.

Your inquiry is most welcome here. The thread on inquiry itself though is confusing as to how this pertains to your personal journey. Do you feel barred from proper discussion by Christians in general, or is it only the rules of this sub-forum or some other areas of CF that you take issue with?

Just curious

Except that all logic and evidence points away from your God. All questions that would reveal more leading to your God yield nothing. How am I supposed to take that?

Logic and evidence has pointed me directly to God. So I suppose your answer may not be 100% accurate (this is a side-bar discussion I cannot possibly get into here though as my personal journey through logic to God has taken many years of study/research [in science and logic, not in scripture or faith])