Why does it seem that Christians fear inquiry?

[PastorJim]

The GA forum being closed is one sign of this...

GA was closed because the atheists were so obnoxious that every thread ended up in a fight or closed altogether and because they kept on violating the rules, not because we're afraid of questions.

Besides, if you go back and look at the old GA threads, most threads weren't based on questions but on accusations about Christianity that we were expected to defend.

...but overall I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

Maybe some do, but that's a problem with that individual, not with Christianity. The vast majority of Christians I'm aware of welcome questions.

 

[NewToLife]

My perception is also that GA was not closed out of fear, I was never particularly afraid of posting in GA but I wasnt really sorry to see it go and indeed advocated for it's closure long before it was finally closed. I do miss a number of the atheist posters, Danhalen, Eudaimonist and a few more but for the most part the atheist community in GA is I think no great loss at all. My perception is that there was very little genuine inquiry in GA, a great deal of mockery and an obvious hostility and desire to cause offense and disruption on the part of many posters. A number of the atheist posters were also rather brazenly in breach of the rules as far as attempting to proselytize their 'faith'. Perhaps the answer to why Christians on GA were sometimes unwilling to deal with your inquiries lays not with us so much as with those on your side of the debate? Afterall even an honest question would often be swamped and sidetracked in short order should a decent Christian response be given and this ignores that there were very few questions that hadnt been thoroughly answered just to be resurrected in a new thread as though what was said before had never been said.

Personally I think that there is really only so much abuse of hospitality that should be tolerated before someone is requested to leave. I dont think asking someone who repeatedly abuses your hospitality to leave is anything like a sign of fear.

For my part my time on GA did not damage my faith but did drastically lower my opinion of atheism, certainly in it's militant form.

 

[chosenpath]

I'm not familiar with the GA Forum so I can't comment on this subject.

I am intrigued by your question on christians being fearful of inquiry on their faith.

What exactly do you mean by fear?

Let me give you two examples:


Fear of torment?
1 John 4:8
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.


Fear of displeasing you?
Jeremiah 42:6
Whether [it is] pleasing or displeasing, we will obey the voice of the LORD our God to whom we send you, that it may be well with us when we obey the voice of the LORD our God."

 

[DarkProphet]

I'm not familiar with the GA Forum so I can't comment on this subject.

I am intrigued by your question on christians being fearful of inquiry on their faith.

What exactly do you mean by fear?

Probably fear of analyzing their own beliefs. This comes out in the form of running away from hard questions about Christianity.

 

[chosenpath]

I analyze my beliefs in God everyday and never come up empty. I have never ran away from any questions about my christianity, but I have been fired from people because of my belief in God. I wonder if they were threatened and challenged by their own beliefs?

 

[DarkProphet]

I analyze my beliefs in God everyday and never come up empty.

So you (and many other Christians) say but I've yet to see it.

I have never ran away from any questions about my christianity, but I have been fired from people because of my belief in God. I wonder if they were threatened and challenged by their own beliefs?

Fired from people?

 

[PastorJim]

You know, Dark Prophet, I think you, yourself, are a good example of why Christians don't care to answer your questions. In another thread, you asked us questions about how atheists can know that there is a God, or words to that effect.

We were very respectful to you and several of us tried to answer your questions completely and in detail, but in the end, true to form, you ended up insulting us by saying that the only reason we're Christians is that we have "low standards".

Like I said, it isn't that we're afraid to answer questions (in my church, we have an apologetics class where students are required to debate apologetics issues from both sides, including the non-Christian and atheist point of view), but that we just don't want to put up with the constant insults like the one you had to resort to in the other thread.

I think most of us here have proven that we're more than happy to answer questions and examine our beliefs for the benefit of non-Christians, as long as their questions are asked sincerely and in good faith (no pun intended).

 

[chosenpath]

So you (and many other Christians) say but I've yet to see it.

So basically we are displeasing you. Like PastorJim said they have answered your questions with heartfelt answers. So you are dismissing them just as I was fired. Yes fired by people!

 

[NewToLife]

You know, Dark Prophet, I think you, yourself, are a good example of why Christians don't care to answer your questions. In another thread, you asked us questions about how atheists can know that there is a God, or words to that effect.

We were very respectful to you and several of us tried to answer your questions completely and in detail, but in the end, true to form, you ended up insulting us by saying that the only reason we're Christians is that we have "low standards".

Like I said, it isn't that we're afraid to answer questions (in my church, we have an apologetics class where students are required to debate apologetics issues from both sides, including the non-Christian and atheist point of view), but that we just don't want to put up with the constant insults like the one you had to resort to in the other thread.

I think most of us here have proven that we're more than happy to answer questions and examine our beliefs for the benefit of non-Christians, as long as their questions are asked sincerely and in good faith (no pun intended).

I think that hits the nail firmly on the head, it really isnt the fear DarkProphet imagines that causes atheists such as himself to experience Christians hesitating to engage them seriously, it's usually in fact a simple human aversion to the kinds of behaviour any attempt at real dialogue with militant atheists often elicits from those militant atheists.

To be fair I have never actually encountered such behaviour from atheists outside of the internet and the high profile atheist rabble rousers such as Dawkins.

 

[DarkProphet]

You know, Dark Prophet, I think you, yourself, are a good example of why Christians don't care to answer your questions. In another thread, you asked us questions about how atheists can know that there is a God, or words to that effect.

We were very respectful to you and several of us tried to answer your questions completely and in detail, but in the end, true to form, you ended up insulting us by saying that the only reason we're Christians is that we have "low standards".

What I said was, "It would be easy to be a Christian if you have low standards". That is low standards in regards to what you view as an event from God. You'll notice in that thread that no Christian actually gave a set of standards to judge by anything other then personal feeling.

Like I said, it isn't that we're afraid to answer questions (in my church, we have an apologetics class where students are required to debate apologetics issues from both sides, including the non-Christian and atheist point of view), but that we just don't want to put up with the constant insults like the one you had to resort to in the other thread.

I think most of us here have proven that we're more than happy to answer questions and examine our beliefs for the benefit of non-Christians, as long as their questions are asked sincerely and in good faith (no pun intended).

I'll admit that Christians do answer questions, it's just that they seem to be the same trite and meaningless answers. When pressed for more specifics they run away. Seriously how many times have I heard that line about the Bible being written by so many authors over so many years and it not contradicting itself. Then of course I pull out a simple contradiction, and they are at a loss. This wouldn't be a problem in itself but all discussion ends at that point.

 

[AV1611VET]

This wouldn't be a problem in itself but all discussion ends at that point.

Why shouldn't it?

If the Bible is the infallible Word of God, as we say It is --- and if you find what you believe to be a contradiction in It that we absolutely cannot explain --- what's the alternative? Abandon our faith and agree with you that it's a contradiction?

I don't think so.

 

[DarkProphet]

Why shouldn't it?

If the Bible is the infallible Word of God, as we say It is --- and if you find what you believe to be a contradiction in It that we absolutely cannot explain --- what's the alternative? Abandon our faith and agree with you that it's a contradiction?

I don't think so.

So you're saying that the right course of action is to run away from inquiry? To NEVER question the foundations of your faith?

 

[AV1611VET]

So you're saying that the right course of action is to run away from inquiry?

Nope --- our course of action at this point would be to stand still ---

And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD...

---

To NEVER question the foundations of your faith?

Contradictions are NOT the foundations of our faith.

 

[seashale76]

It works two ways, dunnit? I've seen Christian answers ignored because it wasn't what the expected answer should have been in the mind of the atheist, and thus didn't fit into the discussion agenda. In other words, it wasn't easily argued against (or actually truly proved the OP wrong) so the easy option was to pretend it didn't exist.

I've seen plenty of folks who didn't like the answers they were given- and then went on to complain about the ones they received that weren't well thought through, explained, etc.- and I've seen plenty of folks complain when they couldn't counter something because they weren't even willing to concede that the problem wasn't the answer, but their perception of what it meant.

Pardon me, but you seem rather obsessed with a God you don't believe in. The atheists and agnostics I know in the real world are not- they could care less about the topic and certainly don't wish to discuss it seriously if it ever comes up- even those who have an interest in religious studies.

My perception in this case is one of two things: You are either here with the agenda to de-convert Christians for some weird personal reasons, or you are tormented by the idea of God and are fighting your own convictions and you're lashing out. I don't get the impression that you're here in the hopes of finding faith; you just want to argue and be right about everything and are upset that your forum to try and do that has been taken away. Ennui must have set in and this is a pout thread. If I'm wrong about any of it, I apologize, but you do come off that way.

ETA: I'm assuming you know the basics of Christianity and if you don't, if you're serious, you can read about it and visit any sort of church you'd like. You have a lack of faith and expect us to make some profound statement that will inspire you to such an experience. You're going about it all wrong, if that's what you want. Try talking to the God you don't believe in to give you faith. We can't help you here.

 

[PastorJim]

I'll admit that Christians do answer questions, it's just that they seem to be the same trite and meaningless answers. When pressed for more specifics they run away.

I don't think that's true. I don't run away. AV1611 doesn't run away.

As for "trite and meaningless" when an atheist asks me why we eat shellfish and wear mixed fibers, they might think it's "trite and meaningless" to explain that that was a command given to a specific group of people for a specific period of time and we are not that people and that time is passed, but that's the answer. You can repeat "trite and meaningless" all you like, but the bottom line is that the answer is true.

When an atheist says that the Bible commands a rape victim to marry her rapist, they get very upset when we point out that she is not commanded to marry the rapist, but that the rapist is commanded to pay restitution, including marriage, if that's what the victim wishes, but that's the truth.

The point isn't whether you think the answer is trite and meaningless, but whether or not the answer is true.

Frankly, I find most atheist arguments trite and meaningless, but I'm bound by reason to evaluate them on the merits of the facts presented in the argument, not how I would grade the presentation of the argument.

The problem is not that the answers are trite and meaningless, it's that they're not the answers you want to hear.

Seriously how many times have I heard that line about the Bible being written by so many authors over so many years and it not contradicting itself. Then of course I pull out a simple contradiction, and they are at a loss. This wouldn't be a problem in itself but all discussion ends at that point.

And how often have we explained why contradictions are not actually contradictions, only to have atheists ignore the answer.

 

[PastorJim]

It works two ways, dunnit? I've seen Christian answers ignored because it wasn't what the expected answer should have been in the mind of the atheist, and thus didn't fit into the discussion agenda. In other words, it wasn't easily argued against (or actually truly proved the OP wrong) so the easy option was to pretend it didn't exist.

One of the most common and irritating things they do is that they'll bring up something like not eating shellfish or mixed fibers or trimming your beard or something and then, when you explain why that was a command specifically to the Jews under the Old Covenant and that we are the church under the New Covenant, and how Christ has fulfilled the Old Covenant, they'll completely ignore the answer and then go to another forum and ask the very same question.

They don't want the answer. They want something they can use to try to discredit Christianity and as long as they keep hitting a new forum, there will always be some unsuspecting person either posting or lurking, who doesn't understand about the difference between the Covenants who will take their posts seriously.

Pardon me, but you seem rather obsessed with a God you don't believe in.

I've often wondered the same thing. So they don't believe God exists. We don't go around campaigning against things we think don't exist.

My perception in this case is one of two things: You are either here with the agenda to de-convert Christians for some weird personal reasons, or you are tormented by the idea of God and are fighting your own convictions and you're lashing out. I don't get the impression that you're here in the hopes of finding faith; you just want to argue and be right about everything and are upset that your forum to try and do that has been taken away. Ennui must have set in and this is a pout thread. If I'm wrong about any of it, I apologize, but you do come off that way.

The moderators won't let me say the word that comes to mind, but it starts with a "T".

 

[NewToLife]

I've seen plenty of folks who didn't like the answers they were given- and then went on to complain about the ones they received that weren't well thought through, explained, etc.

This again is very accurate, I personally must have seen dozens of threads where an atheist OP would receive a detailed intelligent answer yet the atheist reaction would not be to engage the that post, instead a less challenging post would get a reply, a flame war would be initiated or a thread derail would be engineered. This does not to me speak of an intellectually brave atheist community looking to truly be challenged and cowardly Christains running from their intellectual might.

 

[BereanTodd]

As a former atheist of many, many years, I certainly do not run from questions, I welcome inquiries, and I make them of my own faith all of the time. I believe the Christian faith stands strong against any and all scrutiny if one will honestly seek and judge without bringing any predjudice to the table.

The problem with many (most) people who make claims such as the OP is that they are not trying to honestly judge the Christian faith, they are coming thinking that they are going to convert Christians to atheism. Note that I am not saying specifically anyone in this thread is doing that, as I haven't read a lot of the thread. But in my experience that is a common theme I have encountered.

 

[ephraimanesti]

The GA forum being closed is one sign of this but overall I've found that Christians both here and in person fear inquiry into their beliefs. Why is this?

To the contrary, Christians are eager to discuss their Faith and to answer any and all questions pertaining to it. As Paul enjoined Timothy and, by extention, all Believers, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke, and encourage--with great patience and careful instruction. For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers--[Richard Dawkins and his ilk, for example]--to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths--[such as The God Delusion, for example]. But you, keep your head in all situations, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, discharge all the duties of your ministry."(II Timothy 4:2-5)

However, in this Forum and the GA Forum before it, there is no honest "inquiry into Christian beliefs." All the atheist "regulars" have been asking the same questions for years, have long ago heard all the answers to their oft repeated questions, and have been using the same innane "cut-and-paste" responses ad infinitum.

There is no honest seeking after an understanding of Christian beliefs--it is all a game played to boost egos and calm fears and doubts, smothering the awareness within the players that turning ones' back on God is not a good career move, spiritually speaking by trying to make the beliefs of Christians ludicrous by misrepresentation, exaggeration, and innuendo.

So i gues what i am saying is that it is not that Christians do not seek honest dialogue regarding their beliefs and the reasons for these beliefs, it is more a question of "why bother" in this particular venue--why put time and effort into trying to completely and honestly answer a question when the questioneer is already working on arranging his questions 5 or 6 moves ahead and has no real interest in the answer to the present question--he/she has already heard it hundred of times before--but is, tongue in cheek, merely trying to lead the Christian into a "gottcha!" situation where points can be scored and a reputation for "debunking credulous fools" enhanced and ones' own fears regarding negative consequences of denying God quelled--momentarily, at least.

More power to those--and there are some exemplory ones--who are still "fighting the good fight", but generally i prefer to do it elsewhere given that beating ones' head against a stoney heart just produces headaches.

As far as i can see, the only valid rational for participating here at all is to hopefully feed the lurkers who are "watching" the show.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[LordTimothytheWise]

The problem is that you seem content with the unanswered questions, even the big ones like what does it take to get into heaven or how can you be sure God is really like you think he is?

No matter what you believe or don't there will always be unanswered questions. There is no real solution for that. This universe is mysterious, and not exactly good at protecting one's preconceptions. As for the identity of God, I think I can trust that Jesus was honest with me. I also believe that Christ will not turn away anyone who humbly and honestly is seeking him. I have yet to see anyone deny this.

I think they shut down the apologetics forum because there was that much more mocking than inquiry, and pretty much all the big topics tend to just be repeated over and over in cycles, and nothing (or very little) new was being discussed.

On the other hand, you could always message a mod to ask if you want to be sure.

As a Christian (and another former atheist) I have no qualms about rational inquiry. I quite enjoy it. In the words of Salida, Bring it on.