Forum Replacement and Closure of GA

[Crazy Liz]

The time has come for me to go.

I came here a wide-eyed baby Christian. I leave a bitter but wiser one. You have no clue what it means to be a Christian. Closing down GA does not make the questions go away. It just means that you no longer have to answer them. It means that a stronger and more loving Christian will have to break through the bitterness and ill-treatment before questions can even be answered.

Please ban me now. I am done with this place. I will keep my ear to the ground and if this place is sold, I will return. Lee D is disobeying the command of Christ to go into the world and spread the gospel. Jesus never said create hidey-holes and cross the street in case a sinner crosses your path.

If anyone wants to follow me out the door, I will be at Talk Rational.

Lisa

How come there's no rep button on Lisa's post?

 

[synger]

"We recognize that real seekers are looking for real answers, and the first reply given may be insufficient to achieve this. It is acceptable for the Original Poster (OP) to probe the answers given, and to continue the discussion on lines which help to clarify their understanding of the Christian faith. If another non-Christian seeker wishes to ask questions about the Christian faith, they may start their own thread. No more than one non-Christian (the OP) may post in a thread."

In other words, there is no opportunity for non-Christians to support each other, to help a 'seeker' formulate difficult questions, to bring up points the OP may not have thought about. Not all non-Christians are as verbally able as others, and theism is a difficult subject to discuss even with the best of intentions. It is a format I will not participate in, and I seriously doubt there will be much traffic there.

I agree with you. On the one side, we have GA, which has an open format for debate that has led over and over to flame-wars and insult-matches. We've tried various things to try to help keep the vitriol to a dull roar, like changing the FSGs and training new staff and trying to be more involved in the threads. We even closed the forum for a cool-down time, to show how seriously we took the problems.

On the other hand, we have this new forum, which has a new name that we hope will help frame the discussions a bit more clearly and discourage the sort of mud-slinging and all-out attacks from both sides that make GA such a minefield at times.

You are right. This new format may indeed limit some of the peer-to-peer discussion that helps non-believers form their questions and challenge the answers they get until they are clear. It is my hope that this middle ground between no changes in GA and no forum at all will give us a chance to begin the discussion again. Perhaps as we explore Christianity together, we Christians will better understand the limitations and confusions non-Christians see in it, and non-Christians may better understand the hope that we have in Christ.

 

[Bombila]

I agree with you. On the one side, we have GA, which has an open format for debate that has led over and over to flame-wars and insult-matches. We've tried various things to try to help keep the vitriol to a dull roar, like changing the FSGs and training new staff and trying to be more involved in the threads. We even closed the forum for a cool-down time, to show how seriously we took the problems.

On the other hand, we have this new forum, which has a new name that we hope will help frame the discussions a bit more clearly and discourage the sort of mud-slinging and all-out attacks from both sides that make GA such a minefield at times.

You are right. This new format may indeed limit some of the peer-to-peer discussion that helps non-believers form their questions and challenge the answers they get until they are clear. It is my hope that this middle ground between no changes in GA and no forum at all will give us a chance to begin the discussion again. Perhaps as we explore Christianity together, we Christians will better understand the limitations and confusions non-Christians see in it, and non-Christians may better understand the hope that we have in Christ.

I personally think the characterization of GA as a sewer and minefield is unfair and short-sighted, and again this blanket characterization points to an insulting approach to dealing with the majority of people who behave for the most part with decorum. Yes, there are often posts by people who are immature or offensive. The whole point of moderation is to address this kind of problem, and while I have been overall supportive of CF moderators, I really have never understood why they tend to fling their hands in the air and wax hysterical over their job in GA. There are certainly enough rules to cover any kind of situation that might crop up in a post.

What hope is there that Christians, with no input other than from one non-Christian at a time, will have any chance of recognizing their own failings in terms of communicating? They are wired to think they are right, and most will post answers along the lines of a certain drive-by poster whom we all know and love, all sweetness and no substance. You know I am right.

Once again, when does C&E close?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Also as noted in the title of this announcment General Apologetics will be closed as of Saturday, October 25 around 10 PM CST.

Oh Ratz!! That only leaves the GT board to debate on.........

 

[Criada]

I agree that the problems in GA were caused by only a minority of posters, and by no means all by non-Christians..
However, the problems are there, and something needed to be done to remedy them. This is the solution that has been proposed, and really, it is up to all of us to make it work. I think perhaps you are making the same kind of blanket generalisation which you accuse us of when you say that Christians do not recognise failings in communication, and will make posts without substance. Some will.. but I very much hope that we will call them on it, and that we will be able to develop real and meaningful discussions, without the distractions of the vitriol and personal comments which have come from both sides in the past.

 

[snoochface]

How come there's no rep button on Lisa's post?

Self-ban

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

What about the non-Christian religions board? What is the difference between them and atheists?

http://christianforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=76

 

[synger]

What about the non-Christian religions board? What is the difference between them and atheists?

Exploring Christianity is for those who are interested in learning about the Christian faith.

Non-Christian Religions is for those who are interested in learning about other faiths.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Exploring Christianity is for those who are interested in learning about the Christian faith.

Non-Christian Religions is for those who are interested in learning about other faiths.

There are also other forums for learning about other religions. Those that do not believe JESUS is Lord and Savior are all considered "atheists" to me. Sounds like discrimination to me and is just plain "NUTZ".

John 7:37 In yet the last day, the great, of the feast, stood the Jesus and cries-out, saying, "If-ever any may be thirsting, let him be coming toward Me and be drinking"; [Isaiah 43:19/Revelation 21:6]

Reve 21:6 And He said to me:" it-has-become.
I Am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I, to the one thirsting, shall be giving out of the spring of the Water of the Life gratuitously". [John 7:37/Reve 22:17]

 

[Bombila]

I agree that the problems in GA were caused by only a minority of posters, and by no means all by non-Christians..
However, the problems are there, and something needed to be done to remedy them. This is the solution that has been proposed, and really, it is up to all of us to make it work. I think perhaps you are making the same kind of blanket generalisation which you accuse us of when you say that Christians do not recognise failings in communication, and will make posts without substance. Some will.. but I very much hope that we will call them on it, and that we will be able to develop real and meaningful discussions, without the distractions of the vitriol and personal comments which have come from both sides in the past.

Criada, people in general, not just Christians, rarely recognize their own failings when placed in a situation where they essentially have an echo chamber to bounce their ideas off. That, IMO, is what the new forum format will produce, especially in the case of a non-Christian who is not good with words or not able to articulate what s/he really wants to understand or question.

The exact same format is used for Questions about CF, and I have made the same complaints about that.

I will not be participating in any forum which uses such a format. It is a cap-in-hand feudal approach to human interaction which should have been left in the Middle Ages where it belongs.

It is not up to me at all to 'make it work'. CF is a business, as has been pointed out continually when it suits, which is except when it suits to call it a 'ministry'. Businesses exist to generate profit for owners, in this case through ad revenue obtained because of the large number of members here who see these ads. Customers are required for businesses to make a profit. Businesses attempt to make their product attractive to the largest number of customers. If the largest number of customers for CF like the way it is set up, the business will remain successful.

I am not one of those customers who likes this change. I am still a customer interested in using one part of the boards, which is why I have asked when C&E is closing. Once C&E closes, I personally am no longer a customer, regardless of how successful the business remains based on the number of other satisfied customers. My business will go elsewhere.

 

[[serious]]

To treat an idea as dangerous enough to merit suppression is to admit it is reasonable enough to merit consideration.

Anyone secure in their own beliefs should not hesitate to test them against other ideas. "As steel sharpens steel..."

 

[Crazy Liz]

Criada, people in general, not just Christians, rarely recognize their own failings when placed in a situation where they essentially have an echo chamber to bounce their ideas off. That, IMO, is what the new forum format will produce, especially in the case of a non-Christian who is not good with words or not able to articulate what s/he really wants to understand or question.

The exact same format is used for Questions about CF, and I have made the same complaints about that.

I will not be participating in any forum which uses such a format. It is a cap-in-hand feudal approach to human interaction which should have been left in the Middle Ages where it belongs.

It is not up to me at all to 'make it work'. CF is a business, as has been pointed out continually when it suits, which is except when it suits to call it a 'ministry'. Businesses exist to generate profit for owners, in this case through ad revenue obtained because of the large number of members here who see these ads. Customers are required for businesses to make a profit. Businesses attempt to make their product attractive to the largest number of customers. If the largest number of customers for CF like the way it is set up, the business will remain successful.

I am not one of those customers who likes this change. I am still a customer interested in using one part of the boards, which is why I have asked when C&E is closing. Once C&E closes, I personally am no longer a customer, regardless of how successful the business remains based on the number of other satisfied customers. My business will go elsewhere.

I'm a customer who is quickly losing all interest in patronizing this establishment. It used to call itself a community. I participated as a member of a community. And like the community that happens to hang out at the Starbucks around the corner, a lot of us did get to know each other, become friends, and act as a community to one another, even though the place we met was a commercial establishment.

But if Starbucks started telling its customers who they could and could not talk to and what they could and could not talk about, they would drive away the community that made them money just by being present. That's what's happening at CF.

Yeah, it's a business decision. If the business goes broke as a result, then the owner made a business mistake and takes his lumps for his own mistakes.

If Starbucks started roping off sections where certain kinds of people could not go, or saying only one of "your kind" in this section at a time, believe me, the members of the community that used to hang out there would start talking about other places to go. So a smart Starbucks manager will make the first rule be one against talking about other brands of coffee, right?

And call the police every time someone says "Peet's" or even alludes to "Mountain Grown."

But once the manager gets an injunction & puts barricades in place to make sure nobody hands out bakery coupons within 100 yards of Starbucks, there won't be much business anymore.

Except maybe some people would go through the drive-through to get free gold stars and a chance to win a Starbucks t-shirt.

 

[Crazy Liz]

nm

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

But if Starbucks started telling its customers who they could and could not talk to and what they could and could not talk about, they would drive away the community that made them money just by being present. That's what's happening at CF.

Greetings. They could always segregate them.....Christians to the left and non-Christians to the right........

 

[Bombila]

Of course, most people who use GA aren't even aware of the closing. The big Announcements at the page top in GA, where a person would normally look for major changes, is fishing for Moderators. The modest not-even-bolded sticky says merely 'forum closure', without reference to what forum is closing. And of course one isn't allowed to talk openly in any of the threads by saying, 'hey, did you know this forum is closing?' or anything so straightforward and non-deceptive.

I for one would like to be able to speak freely, at least to that extent, without having my posts deleted. There are people who will be leaving CF who might like to say goodbye.

 

[drstevej]

This announcement is to make everyone aware of Exploring Chirstianity in Outreach that will replace Questions By Non Christiains.

The FSG's are below


Also as noted in the title of this announcment General Apologetics will be closed as of Saturday, October 25 around 10 PM CST.


Here is a statement from Lee
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=47885292&postcount=68


This announcment is going to be open and there will be some admins to be here to help facilitate discussion. Please post within the rules so the thread doesn't get heated and or closed.

If you have a complaint go to the Suggestion and Complaint Box.


God Bless,

Matt
For the Advisors and Lee

Sounds like a good concept. It allows for dialogue for those interested in knowing more and shields it as a "deconversion" insurgents' playground.

Good balance.

RD

 

[Criada]

I don't think there is a problem with you letting others know if they haven't seen the announcement... the point of this thread, i think, is to give people a chance to talk about this, so please, if most members aren't aware, let them know.

 

[faster_jackrabbit]

I don't think that the idea here is that everyone has to be 'pro-Christian', any discussion is welcome, otherwise the forum would be pointless. The type of posts which I think Lee is referring to are those deliberately mocking without being willing to engage in any actual discussion.

Being "mocking" has nothing to do with the content of the post.

 

[KCDAD]

Oh... going the way of C.A.R.M. I see. No decent, agree with me or else. At least that is a way to feel like you are right.

As Lisa so appropriately pointed out... that is not what being a Chrisitan is about... good luck. Circle the wagons and hope for the best.

 

[Gazelle]

This announcement is to make everyone aware of Exploring Chirstianity in Outreach that will replace Questions By Non Christiains.

The FSG's are below


Also as noted in the title of this announcment General Apologetics will be closed as of Saturday, October 25 around 10 PM CST.


Here is a statement from Lee
http://christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=47885292&postcount=68


This announcment is going to be open and there will be some admins to be here to help facilitate discussion. Please post within the rules so the thread doesn't get heated and or closed.

If you have a complaint go to the Suggestion and Complaint Box.


God Bless,

Matt
For the Advisors and Lee