Roman church errors and inventions

[simonthezealot]

Simon, the Catholic Church has many different orders but they all adhere to the same teaching (even if you disagree with that teahcing).

With Protestant churces they are inventing new teachings every day. There is no unity and a lot of division.

I'm not a protestant I am a bible Christian and there is only 1 truth my friend...And Christ testified to it.

 

[AmericanCatholic]

But that doesn't change the fact that he died.

Josiah did not claim that the saints in question died. He claimed they are "dead"; IOW, currently not among the living. However, since we know that the Lord is the God of the living, not the dead, and that both Peter and Mattias are saints, they are in fact among the living. Jesus died also -- should we stop recognizing Christ and forget his resurrection?

That is a novel idea, that a commission to preach is "an authority"

A commission is a form of authority in which a sovereign power (i.e. Jesus) grants "an office, right, monopoly, title, or status" (i.e. to preach) to a subject (i.e. the Apostles). Not everyone is commissioned to preach, and those that do preach without commission often do injustice to the Word of God.

Actualy not.

Actually, yes. What's individualistic and arbitrary about this?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Josiah did not claim that the saints in question died. He claimed they are "dead"; IOW, currently not among the living. However, since we know that the Lord is the God of the living, not the dead, and that both Peter and Mattias are saints, they are in fact among the living. Jesus died also -- should we stop recognizing Christ and forget his resurrection?

What I said is the Peter died. I suggested that since Matthias would now be over 1900 years old, it's likely he had died, too. Of course they are saints (as all believers are), but Peter or Matthias is not the Bishop in Rome, the Bishop in Rome is Joseph Ratzinger - surely you know that.

 

[AmericanCatholic]

What I said is the Peter died.

Actually, you said this:

The fact is Peter is dead.

The only reconciliation available to you now is to claim that Christ was in error to claim that believers would have life after (the event of) death; assuming, of course, you actually believe what you say.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I'm not a protestant I am a bible Christian and there is only 1 truth my friend...And Christ testified to it.

Such as Peter being the holder of the Keys and being made the Shephard of His flock?

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Actually, St. Peter is very much alive.

Actually, he died in 67 AD.
Nor is he the Bishop in Rome. Joseph Ratzinger is.

Actually, Jesus "pointed us" to the Word of God, which includes Scripture.

He never ONCE pointed us to the Catholic Denomination or to any Bishop who happens to be in Rome. He did point us to Scripture over 50 times. He did promise the Holy Spirit to us. He did command us not to lord it over others as the gentiles (ie Romans) do. But He NEVER so much as mentioned any Catholic Church or Bishop in Rome. Not once. Ever. For anything. About anything.

Actually, Catholics declare the Church, as the Body of Christ, and not themselves individually, to be the "sole (and infallible...) authority".

What I said is the the Catholic Church declares itself to be the sole interpreter, thus it embraces absolute individual interpretation - INSISTING that there is ONE and only ONE authoritative interpreter - ITSELF. It goes on to declare itself ultimately infallible in such. Read your Catechism # 87 to see what role it gives to ANY and ALL others.



The fact remains: ALL of the Scriptures offered speak of CHRISTIANS and NEVER of the Catholic Church or the Magisterium thereof or any one who happens to be the Bishop serving in Rome. The fact remains: There is ZERO substantiation that Jesus ever promised the Catholic Church or the Magisterium of it or the Bishop in Rome anything. Ever. There is ZERO substantiation that Jesus ever authorized the Catholic Church or the Magisterium thereof or anyone who happens to be the Bishop in Rome to do anything . For anyone. About anything. Ever. The Scriptures quoted here are all spoken to PEOPLE, not the RCC. The RCC and LDS may CLAIM anything their egos will permit them to do with a straight face , but it doesn't make it true, it just makes it a remarkable, egotistical, accountability-evading, entirely unsubstantiated self-claim.




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[JacktheCatholic]

What I said is the the Catholic Church declares itself to be the sole interpreter

Because it is the first Christian church and spoken if in scripture.

"the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth"

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Because it is the first Christian church and spoken if in scripture.

"the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth"

Wow! You didn't say the first "Catholic" church

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Because it is the first Christian church and spoken if in scripture.

1. There is ZERO evidence that ANY denomination existed before the 4th Century, much less that the specific, particular CATHOLIC Church existed then.

2. No, the Catholic Church is never mentioned in Scripture.

3. But you seem to be agreeing that it's actually the CATHOLIC CHURCH that holds to extreme individual interpretation, declaring itself that there is but ONE authoritative interpreter - ITSELF. All others are permitted by it to do one thing: docilicly accept what it says for when it speaks, Jesus speaks. There is no more extreme form of individual interpretation (although for some time the LDS came very close but it has in recent years backed way off from that, leaving the RCC alone in that camp).




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[GratiaCorpusChristi]

Because it is the first Christian church and spoken if in scripture.

"the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth"

As a good Catholic, you should know that the Catholic Church is the result of a long process of evolution and the development of doctrine (I reference here the excellent doctrinal theories of John Henry Newman and Yves Congar).

The Catholic Church is a successor to the church of the first century, but no more so than the Orthodox Church.

 

[AmericanCatholic]

Actually, he died in 67 AD.

Actually, that's not the claim of yours I'm disputing. It would be nice if you could stay on subject. Thanks.

He never ONCE pointed us to the Catholic Denomination or to any Bishop who happens to be in Rome.

Actually, Jesus pointed directly to St. Peter.

He did point us to Scripture over 50 times.

Actually, Jesus pointed us to the Word of God, which I mentioned earlier. Please stop repeating yourself because it's not very engaging to keep repeating myself after you.

But He NEVER so much as mentioned any Catholic Church or Bishop in Rome.

Actually, he mentioned St. Peter multiple times.

What I said is the the Catholic Church declares itself to be the sole interpreter, thus it embraces absolute individual interpretation - INSISTING that there is ONE and only ONE authoritative interpreter - ITSELF.

Actually, the Church embraces multiple interpreters.

As for the rest of your post, I'm sure I can copy and paste previous responses of mine in other threads and have them retain their applicability. Take care.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Actually, that's not the claim of yours I'm disputing. It would be nice if you could stay on subject. Thanks.

Then, if you agree that Peter DIED and that Joseph Ratzinger is now the Bishop in Rome, then your point is moot.

Actually, Jesus pointed directly to St. Peter.

Never as the infallible authority. On anything. And see the above, we agree he died a very, very long time ago and is no longer the Bishop of Rome (or anywhere else, for that matter).

While Jesus refered to Peter as Satan on one occasion, He DID direct us to the Authority and Norm of Scripture. Some 50 times. And while He NEVER so much as even MENTIONED the Catholic Church for anything whatsoever, He did promise us the Holy Spirit.

Actually, the Church embraces multiple interpreters.

The Catholic Church recognizes only ONE authoritative interpreter: Itself.
The role of everyone else is stated in your Catechism, # 87.




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[AmericanCatholic]

Then, if you agree that Peter DIED and that Joseph Ratzinger is now the Bishop in Rome, then your point is moot.

Jesus also died, so I suppose that makes your point moot.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Jesus also died, so I suppose that makes your point moot.

Reve 2:17 And when I saw Him, I fall toward the feet of Him as dead, and he places the right-*hand of Him on me saying: "No be fearing! I am the first and the last
18 and the living-one! And I became dead, and behold! living am-I into the ages to-the ages [*Amen]. And I am having the Keys of the Death and of the Hades

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Jesus also died

1. I never said that Jesus is the head of my denomination, and therefore whenever the President of my denomination speaks, Jesus speaks, and therefore my denomination cannot err in matters of faith and morals or that it is absolutely essential for salvation that every human creature be subject to Jerry Kieschnick, or that Jesus founded my denomination, etc.

2. Are you claiming that Peter = Jesus or that Peter rose from the dead as Jesus did, or that Peter is the incarnate second person of the Trinity? Why are you trying to equate Peter with Jesus?


Jesus NEVER authorized the Catholic Church to do anything. For anyone. About anything. Ever.
Jesus NEVER promised the Catholic Church anything. About anything. For anything. Ever.
OR the LDS.






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[Rick Otto]

Jesus also died, so I suppose that makes your point moot.

It isn't the obvious fact that they've both died that makes for mootness.
It is in the divinity (or lack thereof)of the one doing the dying & in how significantly that death affects the rest of humanity.

You're right, Jesus is irreplaceable, but The Comforter isn't exactly 2nd-rate as vicars go.

 

[CaliforniaJosiah]

It isn't the obvious fact that they've both died that makes for mootness.
It is in the divinity (or lack thereof)of the one doing the dying & in how significantly that death affects the rest of humanity.

You're right, Jesus is irreplaceable, but The Comforter isn't exactly 2nd-rate as vicars go.

Good point (as usual)....

Jesus never promised anyone an infallible/unaccountable denomination.
He promised the Holy Spirit.
Jesus never spoke of any authority or normative function from the RCC or LDS.
He did not only speak of but used the Authority and normative function of Scripture. Over 50 times.





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[AmericanCatholic]

I never said that Jesus is the head of my denomination

Then I suppose likewise that you will never claim that your denomination is a part of the Christian church.

Why are you trying to equate Peter with Jesus?

Why are you claiming that Peter is dead when (1) you recognize his sainthood and (2) (supposedly) confess that there is life in Christ?

 

[Zoness]

In response to the OP:

-Purgatory
-Veneration of Mary & Saints
-Papacy
-Emphasis on works
-Indulgences

 

[Photini]

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