It Is Ok To Make A Negative Confession..

[SpiritPsalmist]

Pontius Pilate cyncially asked Jesus 'What is truth?'.

Jesus said we would know the truth and the truth will set us free.

You said, "speak the truth". My question, What do YOU believe is truth? Do you believe truth to be whatever one perceives it for the moment? Is truth to you what you feel? I know what is truth. It's what God says. Nothing more, nothing less. However, here, there are many who seem to think truth is whatever comes into their thoughts and out of their mouths. My dad continously puts down other people and when questioned about it says, "I'm only speaking the truth". That's not truth, that's corruption of his heart spilling out of his mouth.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

From a scriptural point of view, a "negative confession" means to assent and speak contrary to what God has said.
God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness in Christ.
To say anything contrary to this is unbelief and an evil report.
It is rebellion.
You cannot think and speak against God and then expect things to go well for you.
He is merciful and will forgive. But at some point we need to grow up in the word and begin to side with Him.
That is faith.

 

[Strong in Him]

From a scriptural point of view, a "negative confession" means to assent and speak contrary to what God has said.

It all depends on how you interpret the word and what you believe God has said.

For example, there is a massive thread on the GT forum about women pastors/preachers. Basically the argument is "God has called us", "oh no he hasn't; it says so in the Bible."
I have been told that I am disobeying God, that my call is down to feminism, personal ambition, or whatever. Some have even suggested that women preachers/pastors is a thing of the devil. The word says women must be silent, therefore the word means that women must be silent. Any testimony of what God is doing today is therefore invalid because it does not line up with Scripture (apparently.)

People have, and do, use the same reasoning about having your head covered in church, not having blood transfusions and any other number of issues - because it says so in the word. Some people even manage to justify a belief that the gifts of the Spirit are not for today, that Jesus wasn't really God or that the trinity is a flase belief - because of how they read Scripture.

So for them, I am making negative confession and speaking against God when I say "God called me". I don't believe I am, and neither do many others. But by your definition, then that is what I am doing.

As far as I can see, this negative confession belief applies only to the issues of healing and prosperity. If the belief is that Scripture says that we have the right to full health because it was provided at the cross, and we have the right to a lot of money because God wants us to have good things, but someone comes along and says that they don't believe that and that they pray "thy will be done"; THEN they are told they are making negative confession.

So it all depends on who you talk to and what their understanding of Scripture is.

 

[pinetree]

Matthew 12:33-35 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things."



And they claimed things that were untrue despite God's promise to them. Instead of "We're thirsty" they said, "we're going to die".



What about it? I'm not going to speak negatively. God has promised to keep me, any negative speaking would only put me into the category of stiff necked.




My point exactly! Due to assuming it is obvious, there is a lack of study. Someone from England could send you a letter and use words that mean something in particular to them yet mean something totally different to you. You would think you understood, but in fact you would not...unless of course you knew what that person meant when they used the word that meant something different to you.

what does that have to do with the silly positive confession doctrine,that puts a human beings words,as an all powerful idol..?

 

[pinetree]

Come on guys! Saying stuff like this is no better than the news and their twistings of the facts in order to get an interesting story. We are not to speak the opposite of what God would say. That's what Balaam was hired to do but he only speak what God said about Israel.

When in the middle of financial struggles is it ok to say "I'm going down"? Or is it better to say, "God will supply"? Saying "God will supply" does not mean that one sits on their hiney and does not take up and use any tools that God places in their hands. It also does not mean that one goes all over town saying how "God has deserted me and I'm going to die in poverty."

Look at the confession of the greatest of all men..

Matt 11:2
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples 3to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

Now,do we speak from our hearts,or walk by a formula based on my human words..

He doubted,he said it!

 

[pinetree]

Pontius Pilate cyncially asked Jesus 'What is truth?'.

Jesus said we would know the truth and the truth will set us free.

good words!

I think it is better to just speak,knowing if something I believe to be true,changes,fine..

No big deal,God understands..

He is big on freedom!

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

good words!

I think it is better to just speak,knowing if something I believe to be true,changes,fine..

No big deal,God understands..

He is big on freedom!

Really? And just what is it that you understand when you tell your kids not to do something and they do it anyway?

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

Look at the confession of the greatest of all men..

Matt 11:2
When John heard in prison what Christ was doing, he sent his disciples 3to ask him, "Are you the one who was to come, or should we expect someone else?"

Now,do we speak from our hearts,or walk by a formula based on my human words..

He doubted,he said it!

Ah, again, since you think it's not important, you don't know the history behind his question And, He asked Jesus directly, through his disciples. IF it was truly a doubting question, which I don't believe it was, He did not go around spreading his doubts to others.

 

[pinetree]

From a scriptural point of view, a "negative confession" means to assent and speak contrary to what God has said.
God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness in Christ.
To say anything contrary to this is unbelief and an evil report.
It is rebellion.
You cannot think and speak against God and then expect things to go well for you.
He is merciful and will forgive. But at some point we need to grow up in the word and begin to side with Him.
That is faith.

Were the psalms,and the book of Job,written out of personal subjective experiences,or objective ..

What God says to a human heart,at different crossroads,may vary..

David and Job were praised as spiritual men..

Yet their writings were filled with complaint,and troubles..

Some might say,here is an scripture..

It says, "My peace I give unto you.".

Yet we all know that often saints dont always have peace..

So,what truth do we confess,experience,or what we would like it to be?..

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

what does that have to do with the silly positive confession doctrine,that puts a human beings words,as an all powerful idol..?

The OP says nothing about silly positive confession doctrine. It says that talking nagatively is not only OK but perfectly acceptable before God.

It was Jesus who said "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Mt 12:36-38)

I'd say He's made a pretty clear case for not going around saying things that are not according to what God says.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The OP says nothing about silly positive confession doctrine. It says that talking nagatively is not only OK but perfectly acceptable before God.

It was Jesus who said "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” (Mt 12:36-38)

I'd say He's made a pretty clear case for not going around saying things that are not according to what God says.

You are correct Q.
Our words are important for many reasons. It is not a situation where you can just sit back and ramble off any old thing that comes to mind and expect it all to be fine. There are ramifications. Jesus would not have said what He did if it were not true. To think "God understands... it does not matter what I say or do. That is grace" is a symptom of the influences of mere theism. From out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.Denying the word of God and making lite of what He said and did is not "ok." There is evidence of unbelief there. It does not please God.

 

[pinetree]

Really? And just what is it that you understand when you tell your kids not to do something and they do it anyway?

I am sorry,but I dont understand wht this has to do with the positive confession doctrine,or it's ramifications.

That is the theme here.

It is a sprirtual bondage,to live in Christ,thinking that you have to have every confession in line or else!

 

[pinetree]

It all depends on how you interpret the word and what you believe God has said.

For example, there is a massive thread on the GT forum about women pastors/preachers. Basically the argument is "God has called us", "oh no he hasn't; it says so in the Bible."
I have been told that I am disobeying God, that my call is down to feminism, personal ambition, or whatever. Some have even suggested that women preachers/pastors is a thing of the devil. The word says women must be silent, therefore the word means that women must be silent. Any testimony of what God is doing today is therefore invalid because it does not line up with Scripture (apparently.)

People have, and do, use the same reasoning about having your head covered in church, not having blood transfusions and any other number of issues - because it says so in the word. Some people even manage to justify a belief that the gifts of the Spirit are not for today, that Jesus wasn't really God or that the trinity is a flase belief - because of how they read Scripture.

So for them, I am making negative confession and speaking against God when I say "God called me". I don't believe I am, and neither do many others. But by your definition, then that is what I am doing.

As far as I can see, this negative confession belief applies only to the issues of healing and prosperity. If the belief is that Scripture says that we have the right to full health because it was provided at the cross, and we have the right to a lot of money because God wants us to have good things, but someone comes along and says that they don't believe that and that they pray "thy will be done"; THEN they are told they are making negative confession.

So it all depends on who you talk to and what their understanding of Scripture is.

My wife sitting here next to me,just said a loud amen!

 

[pinetree]

You are correct Q.
Our words are important for many reasons. It is not a situation where you can just sit back and ramble off any old thing that comes to mind and expect it all to be fine. There are ramifications. Jesus would not have said what He did if it were not true. To think "God understands... it does not matter what I say or do. That is grace" is a symptom of the influences of mere theism. From out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.Denying the word of God and making lite of what He said and did is not "ok." There is evidence of unbelief there. It does not please God.

Hi Dids..

In all the faith verses you can find...

Isn't really the emphasis on the faith that produces results?

You can do things by just faith without a confession..

But can you do things by confession alone?

Why all the stress about a human beings words?

When you got saved by faith,sure you confessed it to all..

But it says "when the heart turns"

The emphasis on the confess it doctrine has it all backwards...

They put all the stress on the confession,rather than what the confession is all about anyway..what is in the experience,is the key..

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

I am sorry,but I dont understand wht this has to do with the positive confession doctrine,or it's ramifications.

That is the theme here.

It is a sprirtual bondage,to live in Christ,thinking that you have to have every confession in line or else!

Jesus said, "You reap what you sow". There is no else as far as our salvation but we will still reap what we sow. If we sow words that are against what God says what is it we will reap? Nothing? Was Jesus a liar? Is He being too OT for you?

I don't believe we have to have every confession in line...but we must be careful what we say. If not for our own selves for others. Scripture says that we will answer for our words....did you read the one I gave you from Matthew?

From a statement you made in one of the posts though, I'm wondering why you are making such a big deal about the teachings of others. You said,

I think it is better to just speak,knowing if something I believe to be true,changes,fine..

No big deal,God understands..

He is big on freedom!

I'm going to remember this statement. Every time you criticize what someone else is teaching I will play it back to you. If it's no big deal for you to speak and not answer to God then it's not for others either. In your own words, He's big on freedom

 

[pinetree]

Jesus said, "You reap what you sow". There is no else as far as our salvation but we will still reap what we sow. If we sow words that are against what God says what is it we will reap? Nothing? Was Jesus a liar? Is He being too OT for you?

I don't believe we have to have every confession in line...but we must be careful what we say. If not for our own selves for others. Scripture says that we will answer for our words....did you read the one I gave you from Matthew?

From a statement you made in one of the posts though, I'm wondering why you are making such a big deal about the teachings of others. You said,

I'm going to remember this statement. Every time you criticize what someone else is teaching I will play it back to you. If it's no big deal for you to speak and not answer to God then it's not for others either. In your own words, He's big on freedom

boy oh boy...

again,that statement is not about having doctrinal differences,it is about walking around thinking that every word one speaks,alters what will happen in the future..

 

[Strong in Him]

Jesus said, "You reap what you sow". There is no else as far as our salvation but we will still reap what we sow.

Often, by the Grace and amazing generosity of God, I reap what others have sown - in terms of their prayers, witness and blessings.

Very often God gives me what I do not deserve and may not even have asked for.
Sometimes I complain against him - he shows me love.
Sometimes I deny I can do something - he gives me the ability, nonetheless.
Sometimes I complain about the few aches and pains I have - he blesses me by taking them away or giving me strength to endure.
Sometimes I am very negative and very human - he still shows me love, and reminds me that I will never be seperated from it.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is a big difference between forgetting/denying what the Lord has done in your life, rejecting/disobeying his word or command, and saying to yourself, "I'm no good at this, I'm going to fail", or "I'm disabled", or whatever.

By the way what about situations where you have a very good idea of what will happen if people carry on along a certain path? Is it negative to say so? - Serious question.
E.g my former church has about 40 members - a few in nursing homes, a couple who are housebound; average age of the rest - 70. They mostly do not like change, they are very reluctant to help with anything "because they're old", and I honestly don't know where their faith is or if they have any concept of God stepping in, answering prayer and working in power.

I chose to leave that church and go somewhere that was growing and where I could enjoy worship, but the minister of my new church has also just taken over as minister of my former church. We've discussed the situation briefly, and I've told him that the church is in a bad way and, imo, it's just a matter of time before it closes. I do feel slightly guilty that I may have written them off and am not allowing God to perform a miracle, but, humanly speaking, I can't see any way they can remain open. I'm not even sure they should to be honest - if the idol of the building were removed, they'd soon find out who was really serious about worshipping God. Is it being negative to say to the minister that the church is probaly headed for closure? (Not that he's going to take any notice of me anyway.) Would it in fact be wrong to pray earnestly for revival if God wants to close the church and start again with the few people who really do believe in him?

Sorry, I appear to have gone off the subject rather. It's just that this is very much on my mind at the moment, even though, technically, it's none of my business.

I go to a church which is very similar to yours. I am an elder of that church. About three years ago we lost our minister, and half the membership left, leaving about 40 to continue on. The departing minister wrote a report and submitted it to the local Presbytery saying that St Aidan's should close down and the proceeds from the sale of the church should be used for local ministry. The church and its grounds are worth about $1.5 million NZ. When we were praying about that, the Lord told me, "I have not finished with this church yet!" and , "Fear not little flock, it is the Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom."

We have found that the Lord has kept us going and has provided many wonderful visiting ministries while we are looking for a new minister. We had a whole family join the church because they said that God had led them there.

Our people are elderly too, with just a few younger ones. They are also resistant to change, being staid Presbyterians, but they want God's will done in the church, and they don't want it to die.

We are honest about the state of our church, and we don't know really what we can do about it, but I know that our eyes are on the Lord, and if we obey His voice and His Word, then I know the Lord will come through for us.

But at the same time, we are not prepared to prophesy and say definitely what we think the Lord should do, ie: bring miraculous growth, hordes of young people, increase our membership by hundreds, etc, because we don't know what the Lord wants to do with us. We want to move ahead in faith, trusting the Lord day by day, and not in presumption, trying to second-guess God.

I think a lot of this "positive confession" stuff is trying to tell God what He should do. It is presumption and not faith. I believe that answer to it is what Jesus said: "What is that to you? Follow me." Following Jesus does not mean that we can determine the future, or that we even know what the future is going to be. It may mean following Jesus through personal suffering, poverty, failure, grief, heartbreak, as well as joy, rejoicing, success, prosperity.

The rule is that we should develop our love for Jesus for the Person He is, and not for what His benefits might be to us. A lot of this "positive confession" is in the area of covetousness in that we want Him to provide something for us. We imply that we will only love Him if He makes us wealthy, or have perfect health, or totally successful in business, or victorious over our enemies both within and without.

I don't think it works that way. There are many Scriptures that support the fact that we are going to have negative experiences in this world, but that He will be with us through them.

To say "I am going through a bad patch right now," is not necessarily a bad confession. A great confession would be: "I am going through a bad patch right now, and I know that the Lord is my strength and shield, a very present help in my time of trouble."

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Hello.
Could you please show me in scripture,where our words,create the future..

I'll just stick my oar in here, because I just can't help it...

I am not sure whether our everyday words actually create the future, but I know that our choices today create our future tomorrow in some way. I also know that we might have to give some sort of account of the things we say at some future time, and that thought scares me a little because I am not always careful about the words I say, especially when I use my sense of humour, which is not always reverent to say the least!

But the Lord did show me the type of words that can create a future for a person. That is when we speak prophetically as led by the Holy Spirit for a person. This is why the gift of prophecy is such an important gift, and carries quite a weight of reponsibility. The words we speak in prophecy for a group or a person can create a future for them, or at least affect their future. For example, a person may receive a prophecy that says things that God is going to do for them in times to come. There may be no present indication that those things could ever be possible, and it would be easy to discount the prophecy as being false; but, in six months time, when the recording of that prophecy is played back, or reread, it might be obvious that what was said is quickly coming to pass. Joel spoke a prophecy 800 years before the Day of Pentecost, and it came to pass all that time later. I believe that if the Holy Spirit leads a person to prophesy something for the future which, according to the evidence, does not exist right now, then God will create the future according to the Word He has spoken. Of course, we have to be careful that what we prophesy is actually what the Holy Spirit is saying, especially when we prophesy something that is going to happen in the future for a person. Remember the 400 prophets of Baal who prophesied that Ahab was going to win a mighty victory, when one prophet of the Lord said that he was going to die in battle and Israel was going to be without a shepherd. So it is not always the majority who are right.

But I would not want to put anyone off if they through their faith receive a word they believe is from the Spirit and through their obedience give it, even though their knees are shaking with fear while they are doing it. Many powerful words of prophecy have been given through people like that. It has all to do with the motivation and sincerity of people's hearts before God. False prophets are false because of their motivation and self commendation, and not because of the mistakes that a sincere-hearted believer might make in giving a word he truly believes is from God. But we cannot readily tell the motivation of a person's heart to know the difference sometimes, and that is why Paul teaches that prophecy should be judged before it is believed and accepted.

We have also heard of the expression, "self fulfilling prophecy." This is a mystery in a lot of ways, but it seems that people who go around constantly saying "aint it awful", seem to have more 'awful' things happen to them than people who go around saying, "isn't God good to me!"

I think that the "doom and gloom" merchants (including those in the church), may influence our future if we choose to believe what they say. But John says "Believe not every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they come from God or not."

So, capping it all off, I think that our future is determined by what we choose to believe today.

 

[SpiritPsalmist]

boy oh boy...

again,that statement is not about having doctrinal differences,it is about walking around thinking that every word one speaks,alters what will happen in the future..

Your op was about being able to speak "negative" and not reap any repercussions. Are you changing your op?

Would you deny that our words "could" alter the future?

According to the Word, saying the wrong thing can seperate friends. James said "IF anyone among you thinks he is religious, and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this one's religion is useless" (James 1:26). Further he says, "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is so set among our members that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and is is set on fire by hell". (James 3:6)

But no man can tame the tongue. It is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. (James 3:8) He who would love life and see good days, Let him refrain his tongue from evil, And his lips from speaking deceit" (1 Peter 3:10)

If the disciples thought it important to keep our tongues in check who do we think we are saying it does not matter what we say? It does matter. We may not "go to hell" for what we say but what we say, when negative, may be words "set on fire by hell". Should we be so cavalier in our thought of "oh, well, God understands". We will still reap something from our words.