Sans Scripture, Evolution?

[Nathan Poe]

What about the animals that evolution says went extinct? Where do they fit in, in this paradigm?

They didn't "fit in" -- which is why they went extinct.

 

[Tiberius]

What about the animals that evolution says went extinct? Where do they fit in, in this paradigm?

probably the same place that those millions of years old meteor impact craters have in your embedded age model of the world. After all, the impact never ACTUALLY happened, the world wasn't around at the time. The record is just there are part of the history that has been embedded in the world, yes? Same thing with fossils of extinct animals.

 

[AV1611VET]

Thanks AV - I have indeed read the book.

I truly find that impressive ---

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

That's what you want to believe, isn't it?

No thats a fact.

If you know different please give me links or references to eariler copies of the bible.

The bible is all second hand and made up as time went by.

 

[AV1611VET]

No thats a fact.

If you know different please give me links or references to eariler copies of the bible.

The bible is all second hand and made up as time went by.

Where have you been when I've take the Johanine Comma, probably the single most controversial passage in all of Scripture, and posted it from every authorized translation back to the AV1389 Wycliffe?

I've done that about four times in the past, and it's a lot of work --- but I've done it.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Where have you been when I've take the Johanine Comma, probably the single most controversial passage in all of Scripture, and posted it from every authorized translation back to the AV1389 Wycliffe?

I've done that about four times in the past, and it's a lot of work --- but I've done it.

No problem, just give an age for the oldest copy of the bible.

 

[Psudopod]

Where have you been when I've take the Johanine Comma, probably the single most controversial passage in all of Scripture, and posted it from every authorized translation back to the AV1389 Wycliffe?

I've done that about four times in the past, and it's a lot of work --- but I've done it.

I might have misunderstood what you meant, but if it only goes back to 1389, how does this invalidate Chordate's claim?

 

[AV1611VET]

No problem, just give an age for the oldest copy of the bible.

Yay --- found it in my notes!

Sorry for the rant --- here ya go ---

The Johannine Comma --- 1 John 5:7

AV1611 King James Bible

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AV1587 Geneva Bible

For there are three, which beare recorde in heauen, the Father, the Worde, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AV1568 Bishop's Bible

For there are three which beare recorde in heauen, the father, the worde, and the holy ghost, and these three are one.

AV1525 Tyndale Bible

(For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)

AV1395 Wycliffe Bible

For thre ben, that yyuen witnessing in heuene, the Fadir, the Sone, and the Hooli Goost; and these thre ben oon.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

Yay --- found it in my notes!

Sorry for the rant --- here ya go ---

The Johannine Comma --- 1 John 5:7

AV1611 King James Bible

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AV1587 Geneva Bible

For there are three, which beare recorde in heauen, the Father, the Worde, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AV1568 Bishop's Bible

For there are three which beare recorde in heauen, the father, the worde, and the holy ghost, and these three are one.

AV1525 Tyndale Bible

(For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)

AV1395 Wycliffe Bible

For thre ben, that yyuen witnessing in heuene, the Fadir, the Sone, and the Hooli Goost; and these thre ben oon.

I am quite certain there are older copies of the bible than you indicate here, going back to the codex.

Quote

The Codex Vaticanus (The Vatican, Bibl. Vat., Vat. gr. 1209; Gregory-Aland no. B or 03) is one of the oldest and most valuable extant manuscripts of the Greek Bible. Probably it is slightly older than Codex Sinaiticus, both of which were probably transcribed in the 4th century. It is written in Greek, on vellum, with uncial letters.

Either way, the fact remains that you and others are putting all your faith in the hands of scribes through time, particularly in reference to the Old Testament which is thousands of years to young to be even remotely original.

So to believe the Creationist stories in the OT, all faith is in the word of man, who we know often gets things wrong.

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Yay --- found it in my notes!

Sorry for the rant --- here ya go ---

The Johannine Comma --- 1 John 5:7

AV1611 King James Bible

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AV1587 Geneva Bible

For there are three, which beare recorde in heauen, the Father, the Worde, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.

AV1568 Bishop's Bible

For there are three which beare recorde in heauen, the father, the worde, and the holy ghost, and these three are one.

AV1525 Tyndale Bible

(For ther are thre which beare recorde in heuen the father the worde and the wholy goost. And these thre are one)

AV1395 Wycliffe Bible

For thre ben, that yyuen witnessing in heuene, the Fadir, the Sone, and the Hooli Goost; and these thre ben oon.

Very impressive. I didn't know that keeping a single sentence in a book unaltered over three centuries was humanly possible. Wait, no, actually I did.

What has the Johannine Comma to do with ChordateLegacy's question?

 

[AV1611VET]

I am quite certain there are older copies of the bible than you indicate here, going back to the codex.

I traced the Koine Language --- God's choice ---

And the common people heard him gladly.

Koine Greek is the popular form of Greek which emerged in post-Classical antiquity (c.300 BC - AD 300), and marks the third period in the history of the Greek language. Other names are Alexandrian, Hellenistic, Common, or New Testament Greek.

Either way, the fact remains that you and others are putting all your faith in the hands of scribes through time, particularly in reference to the Old Testament which is thousands of years to young to be even remotely original.

No --- we put our faith in God that He empowered Godly men to write (and preserve) His word.

 

[Psudopod]

No --- we put our faith in God that He empowered Godly men to write (and preserve) His word.

You're putting your faith in men who say that God empowered them. Which I rather think they would if they were trying to put across the bible as an authoritory text. You still have the problem that when it comes to contradictions between reality and the bible, you're putting your faith in something that can be created by men, rather than something that can't.

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

I traced the Koine Language --- God's choice ---No --- we put our faith in God that He empowered Godly men to write (and preserve) His word.

So you are putting your faith in something god done thousands of years ago, i.e. scribes writing and re writing the bible. Really and there me thing the Codex was one of fifty bibles commissioned by Emperor Constantine.

Quote:

What is the oldest known copy of the Bible?

The oldest known copy of the Bible (complete Bible) in the world is the Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the 3rd or 4th century A.D. The Codex, while not only translating Hebrew and Greek manuscripts into all Greek, documents the dramatic shift of preserving texts in a bound book form rather than the tradition of writing on scrolls. There is speculation this book was written in Egypt.

When the Emperor Constantine of the Eastern Empire (Greece) adopted Christianity, he commissioned the compilation of Greek versions of the principal Jewish and Christian scriptures. Although history records 50 manuscripts were written under the guidance of Eusebius, we're not totally sure this is one of those copies.

Since its discovery in bits and pieces of vellum at the Monastery of St. Catherine in Sinai, Egypt, almost half of the Old Testament has been lost. Constantin Tischendorf, a German scholar, was instrumental in the acquisition of these documents for his own country and Russia in 1844 and 1859. As is the case with antiquity, the codex carries a value not only historically, but monetarily.

The remainder of the codex is split between St. Catherine's Monastery, Sinai; the British Library, the University of Leipzip, Germany; and the National Library of Russia, St. Petersburg. Due to the fragility of the vellum, the manuscripts are kept under glass to protect them from further damage.

Current collaborative efforts are to completely digitize the codex to make it available for a world-wide audience in English; possibly German, Spanish, and modern Greek. This may include a free website, a high quality digital facsimile, and CD ROM. The oldest Bible in the world would be able to be seen by all, but not be damaged by constant handling.

The Catholic Church also has a similar copy called Codex Vaticanus, but is thought to be of a later date.

So it seems your faith is differently in the writings of men, for men, hundreds of years after Jesus and thousands of years after the OT.

 

[AV1611VET]

You still have the problem that when it comes to contradictions between reality and the bible, you're putting your faith in something that can be created by men, rather than something that can't.

No, it's obvious to me that you have the problem that when it comes to contradictions between reality and the Bible, I put my faith in...

 

[Split Rock]

No, it's obvious to me that you have the problem that when it comes to contradictions between reality and the Bible, I put my faith in...

"...my interpretation of scripture."

 

[Psudopod]

No, it's obvious to me that you have the problem that when it comes to contradictions between reality and the Bible, I put my faith in...

I don't have a problem, I just can't understand how someone keeps their head in the sand and ignores reality. in all honesty I wouldn't have a problem with it at all if you were constantly saying how evolution was wrong, even when you don't know what it is. I do thank you for being consideraly politer about scientists. I haven't seen any "scientinks" or similar comments from you and I know I personally appricate that.

I guess I just can't understand someone who seems adverse to learning. I guess it makes no sense to me the way it makes no sense to you that people don't believe in God. Oh well, life would be no fun if we were all the same, ne?

 

[AV1611VET]

Quote:

What is the oldest known copy of the Bible?

The oldest known copy of the Bible (complete Bible) in the world is the Codex Sinaiticus, dating from the 3rd or 4th century A.D. The Codex, while not only translating Hebrew and Greek manuscripts into all Greek, documents the dramatic shift of preserving texts in a bound book form rather than the tradition of writing on scrolls. There is speculation this book was written in Egypt.

...

The Catholic Church also has a similar copy called Codex Vaticanus, but is thought to be of a later date.

So it seems your faith is differently in the writings of men, for men, hundreds of years after Jesus and thousands of years after the OT.

There are two major documents we are taught to stay away from --- Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus for two good reasons:

1. These are considered the oldest. Why? Because the common people never used them. Thus they were preserved by disuse.*
2. Codex Sinaiticus was found in a trash can, and Codex Vaticanus was found locked in the Vatican, well out of reach of the common people.

* Whenever you see a footnote say "oldest manuscript says...", or "better manuscript says...", never rely on it - ever. The common people rejected these manuscripts and refused to use them.

 

[AV1611VET]

I guess I just can't understand someone who seems adverse to learning.

Don't underestimate me - I know a lot more than you think I do. I'm just not up-to-date with this junk. K-muons, microwave backgrounds, and the Lorenz Contraction turn me off; while Astronomy, Zoology, and Electromagnetic Wave Propagation turn me on.

 

[Molal]

There are two major documents we are taught to stay away from --- Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus for two good reasons:

1. These are considered the oldest. Why? Because the common people never used them. Thus they were preserved by disuse.*
2. Codex Sinaiticus was found in a trash can, and Codex Vaticanus was found locked in the Vatican, well out of reach of the common people.

* Whenever you see a footnote say "oldest manuscript says...", or "better manuscript says...", never rely on it - ever. The common people rejected these manuscripts and refused to use them.

But the bible we have today comes from these, and other, texts. These are the oldest copies - no other exists.

No original NT text exists - none. The bible is based upon copies of copies of copies of the original text. The bible we have today is a translation/transliteration of multiple copies.

The fact that you rely on a more recent copy is neither here or there.

 

[Cabal]

* Whenever you see a footnote say "oldest manuscript says...", or "better manuscript says...", never rely on it - ever. The common people rejected these manuscripts and refused to use them.

So you're happy to leave the defining version of the Bible up to popular vote, and yet you tell off scientists for updating their theories. Is this some "unwritten principle" that I'm not getting?