Sans Scripture, Evolution?

[ChordatesLegacy]

Creation is the antithesis of evolution --- and Jesus spoke of Creation.

How do you know what Jesus spoke of; I mean the earliest writing about Jesus were in Greek and ~100 years to late. So you are putting your faith in men who wrote down second hand stories about some fella they never meet.

I must say AV, you put a lot of faith in the second hand writings of scribes.

 

[AV1611VET]

So, what influences you to interprete that genesis is a literal description of creation?

From Things to Come, by J. Dwight Pentecost, Chapter 2, The History of Interpretation, quoting Thomas Hartwell Horne, pp. 17-18:

The allegorical interpretation of the sacred Scriptures cannot be historically proved to have prevailed among the Jews from the time of the captivity, or to have been common with the Jews of Palestine at the time of Christ and his apostles.

Although the Sanhedrin and the hearers of Jesus often appealed to the Old Testament, yet they give no indication of the allegorical interpretation; even Josephus has nothing of it. The Platonic Jews of Egypt began in the first century, in imitation of the heathen Greeks, to interpret the old Testament allegorically. Philo of Alexandria was distinguished among those Jews who practiced this method; and he defends it as something new and before unheard of, and for that reason opposed by the other Jews. Jesus was not, therefore, in a situation in which he was compelled to comply with a prevailing custom of allegorical interpretation; for this method did not prevail at the time among the Jews, certainly not in Palestine, where Jesus taught.

 

[Tiberius]

Creation is the antithesis of evolution --- and Jesus spoke of Creation.

So what? A 6100 year old planet is the antithesis of a several billion year old planet, yet you've somehow managed to merge them together.

 

[AV1611VET]

How do you know what Jesus spoke of; I mean the earliest writing about Jesus were in Greek and ~100 years to late. So you are putting your faith in men who wrote down second hand stories about some fella they never meet.

I must say AV, you put a lot of faith in the second hand writings of scribes.

You don't know much about how Christianity works, do you? How can anyone be "Christ-like" unless they know what Jesus said and did? God, Who wants us to be conformed to the image of His Son ---

For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

--- allowed the inspired writings about His Son to go the way of the Periodic Table?

 

[AV1611VET]

So what? A 6100 year old planet is the antithesis of a several billion year old planet, yet you've somehow managed to merge them together.

Call it our "ministry" ---

And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[ChordatesLegacy]

You don't know much about how Christianity works, do you? How can anyone be "Christ-like" unless they know what Jesus said and did? God, Who wants us to be conformed to the image of His Son ------ allowed the inspired writings about His Son to go the way of the Periodic Table?

I know how christianity works, BLIND FAITH

There is not an original word of Jesus, it is all second hand and in the case of the KJB third or forth hand.

 

[Tomk80]

Call it our "ministry" ---

Incoherence is your ministry?

 

[AV1611VET]

I know how christianity works, BLIND FAITH

There is not an original word of Jesus, it is all second hand and in the case of the KJB third or forth hand.

That's what you want to believe, isn't it?

 

[Tiberius]

AV, you make less and less sense the more of your posts I read.

Tell me in clear terms why animals could not have been created with the millions of years of evolution just as the earth had been created with the billions of years of history, as according to your world model.

 

[Cabal]

You don't know much about how Christianity works, do you? How can anyone be "Christ-like" unless they know what Jesus said and did? God, Who wants us to be conformed to the image of His Son ------ allowed the inspired writings about His Son to go the way of the Periodic Table?

Has believing in 6100 years (or not) ever influenced anyone's behaviour? EVER? I think Jesus cares more for people not being jerks to each other than whether or not someone believes the party line on creation.

(And, as mentioned in other threads, nothing stopping Jesus being consistent with his imagery, like the Bible usually is - the guy did love his parables)

 

[AV1611VET]

AV, you make less and less sense the more of your posts I read.

Tell me in clear terms why animals could not have been created with the millions of years of evolution just as the earth had been created with the billions of years of history, as according to your world model.

What about the animals that evolution says went extinct? Where do they fit in, in this paradigm?

 

[Tomk80]

What about the animals that evolution says went extinct? Where do they fit in, in this paradigm?

You tell us. Where do the extinct animals that are found fit in with your worldview.

 

[AV1611VET]

You tell us. Where do the extinct animals that are found fit in with your worldview.

Let's not float too many questions at one time, okay? Let's bury this Embedded Evolution theory first.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Nowhere at all --- but I'm amazed at why TEs believe the way they do. The Bible shoots down the E part of TE in It's opening chapter. I don't see TE in the Bible at all --- even if I step back and look at Genesis One allegorically.

There's a big difference between "shoots down" and "don't see".

With regards to the latter, there's a lot you don't see in the Bible -- the Pelopennesian war isn't even mentioned, IIRC, nor is the irrationality of sqrt(2) -- but we accept anyway, and consider to be perfectly compatible with biblical teaching.

With regards to the former, that's true only if you read some degree of literality into the text. So you still need to answer Molal's questions about how you know what's literal and what's not. In The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, the White Witch kills Aslan with a knife -- she doesn't crucify him... so obviously TLTWATW isn't a Christian allegory, right? Orrr... maybe the details don't matter literally in an allegory. Just sayin'.

 

[Tomk80]

Let's not float too many questions at one time, okay? Let's bury this Embedded Evolution theory first.

Then why don't you actually start answering it coherently. So far you haven't done so.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Let's not float too many questions at one time, okay? Let's bury this Embedded Evolution theory first.

Okaaaay... except that you brought up that question in the first place.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

From Things to Come, by J. Dwight Pentecost, Chapter 2, The History of Interpretation, quoting Thomas Hartwell Horne, pp. 17-18:

Um, I thought that Genesis was supposedly written centuries before the exile (let alone the time of Christ). So what does the belief of people centuries later have to do with the original intent of the author?

 

[MrGoodBytes]

Which answer in no way fit the OP.

Come again? You wanted us to explain whether there was intent to deceive in your analogy. I said no, which is, AFAIK, also your position on this and related issues. How does that not fit the OP?

Which was justified.

Of course. Can't have all those people second-guessing His Highness AV1611VET, Lord of the Fundamental Independent Baptist Hosts, can we.

Hmmm --- you thought you had answered it

I did. I said that there was no deception involved. You have never given any reason as to why I'm wrong about that.

I pointed out you didn't

Without giving reasons why, so my point stands.

now you say it's an utter failure. LOandL.

It was an utter failure from the beginning - luckily for you, even nonsensical questions can be answered.

 

[MasterOfKrikkit]

Call it our "ministry" ---

So why not be complete and fulfill your "ministry" with regards creation and evolution, just as Tiberius suggested?

 

[Molal]

From Things to Come, by J. Dwight Pentecost, Chapter 2, The History of Interpretation, quoting Thomas Hartwell Horne, pp. 17-18:

Thanks AV - I have indeed read the book. I do not; however, agree with the premise.

I have visited this website often and found it to be enlightening:

http://www.itanakh.org/

Again, thanks AV.