Sabbath School subject discussion thread

[StormyOne]

Stormy...er,errrrr....Are you a Christian? What do you believe?

yep I am a christian.... believe it or not it is possible to be a christian and not view the "bible" as the written word of God... in fact, if the bible was proven to be nothing more than a collections of perceptions some have about God, it would not shake my belief in The Creator... but that's just me....

What do I believe? "In the beginning God created...." everything after that is commentary...

 

[Cribstyl]

yep I am a christian.... believe it or not it is possible to be a christian and not view the "bible" as the written word of God... in fact, if the bible was proven to be nothing more than a collections of perceptions some have about God, it would not shake my belief in The Creator... but that's just me....

What do I believe? "In the beginning God created...." everything after that is commentary...

What should a christian believe?

 

[StormyOne]

What should a christian believe?

should? that would suggests something mandatory, a firm set of beliefs, I don't subscribe to that necessarily. I think that christians "should" continue to grow in understanding who they are following, which means that whatever it is they believe will be ever evolving...

 

[Cribstyl]

should? that would suggests something mandatory, a firm set of beliefs, I don't subscribe to that necessarily. I think that christians "should" continue to grow in understanding who they are following, which means that whatever it is they believe will be ever evolving...

...:o.... .................. Lord help my friends and I to believe again that Jesus came to live out every letter of your word just so we can have a better life with you.
Help our faith to once again claim your promises.
Help us to know in our spirit that man cannot live by food alone but also by every word that you have spoken by your Spirit, through your Prophets, your Son and your Apostles.

Lord, we dont know what we should know, but teach us how to trust in you.

AMEN

 

[StormyOne]

letter of your word? again, point me to where God wrote anything... so you would have me believe that the spirit spoke and humans wrote everything down verbatim? interesting indeed...

 

[AndrewK788]

letter of your word? again, point me to where God wrote anything... so you would have me believe that the spirit spoke and humans wrote everything down verbatim? interesting indeed...

Just curious Stormy, where do you draw the line for your basis of belief? I've seen enough of your posts I think I can safely assume that you believe putting 100% of our faith in Scriptures is dangerous because they were written by man and not directly by God's hand...am I correct?

With that said, I just wonder where do you draw the line? How do you know what truth is if the Bible is not totally trustworthy? If you don't believe God could maintain the integrity of this holy Book, where exactly is this truth maintained for humanity to discover and understand?

 

[Adventtruth]

I don't recall your question

Ok...thats fine...This argument is tired any way. Let move on.

AT

 

[StormyOne]

Just curious Stormy, where do you draw the line for your basis of belief? I've seen enough of your posts I think I can safely assume that you believe putting 100% of our faith in Scriptures is dangerous because they were written by man and not directly by God's hand...am I correct?

With that said, I just wonder where do you draw the line? How do you know what truth is if the Bible is not totally trustworthy? If you don't believe God could maintain the integrity of this holy Book, where exactly is this truth maintained for humanity to discover and understand?

your assumptions are incorrect..... my issue is simple. You can trust completely the God that the bible points you to... You can believe 100% in the God that those who wrote the bible had an experience with....

When or if you decide to do some research into how the bible was compiled, who compiled it and how they chose what to include or exclude then you will understand why I don't subscribe to your premise that God maintained the integrity of the bible... A question for you, who made the bible holy? Which version was it that was made holy?

Truth is not dependent on what is in the bible. Likewise the bible is not the only place that the truth can be found... if that is what you choose to believe that's cool, I don't share that belief....

 

[AndrewK788]

your assumptions are incorrect..... my issue is simple. You can trust completely the God that the bible points you to... You can believe 100% in the God that those who wrote the bible had an experience with....

When or if you decide to do some research into how the bible was compiled, who compiled it and how they chose what to include or exclude then you will understand why I don't subscribe to your premise that God maintained the integrity of the bible... A question for you, who made the bible holy? Which version was it that was made holy?

Truth is not dependent on what is in the bible. Likewise the bible is not the only place that the truth can be found... if that is what you choose to believe that's cool, I don't share that belief....

Fair enough, and I understand your point.

Though my question still stands: where can this truth be found? The Bible gives us practically all of our modern understanding of God and especially the story of Jesus Christ. Specifically where can this truth be found outside of the Bible in such a way you know it is truth and not the devil, for example?

 

[StormyOne]

Fair enough, and I understand your point.

Though my question still stands: where can this truth be found? The Bible gives us practically all of our modern understanding of God and especially the story of Jesus Christ. Specifically where can this truth be found outside of the Bible in such a way you know it is truth and not the devil, for example?

truth can be found everywhere, all around us.... I think we are overly obsessed with being "wrong" yet our beliefs are evolving all the time... we test ideas and those things that have the ring of truth we hold on to until we encounter greater truth... The bible that you say you trust 100% says in Psalms 19: 1-3 For the choir director; a psalm by David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky displays what his hands have made. (2) One day tells a story to the next. One night shares knowledge with the next (3) without talking, without words, without their voices being heard.

Truth about God can be found in those things that he has made and are observable to us...

Lastly, even the devil has a story to tell, and perhaps if we were not so paranoid we could learn something from his story...

 

[AndrewK788]

truth can be found everywhere, all around us.... I think we are overly obsessed with being "wrong" yet our beliefs are evolving all the time... we test ideas and those things that have the ring of truth we hold on to until we encounter greater truth... The bible that you say you trust 100% says in Psalms 19: 1-3 For the choir director; a psalm by David. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky displays what his hands have made. (2) One day tells a story to the next. One night shares knowledge with the next (3) without talking, without words, without their voices being heard.

Truth about God can be found in those things that he has made and are observable to us...

Lastly, even the devil has a story to tell, and perhaps if we were not so paranoid we could learn something from his story...

What you've said has truth to it, but it is also true that by these very observations numerous false religions have risen: Spiritualism, more specifically Wicca. Hinduism, where practically everything upon the earth is a god. Practically all Native American religions...obviously there are more but you get my point. I realize your point that nature and everything around us points to a marvelous Creator...even EGW says that on the first page to Steps to Christ I believe...not that that's your thing but still...

But nature alone does not bear truth. Jesus said "I am the truth..."

And as for the devil remark: yes we can learn from him, definitely, but with your direct response to what I had said, it implied you even meant conversing with him...I certainly wouldn't go there.

 

[Cribstyl]

How can a man say that he is a Christian if he does not believe in the bible?

Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


Why does Jesus say that a man's life depends on it?
Mat 4:4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Some people dont believe that He also mean the words that His prophets and apostles have declared to the world.



Good luck with that
CRIB

 

[StormyOne]

How can a man say that he is a Christian if he does not believe in the bible?

Jhn 20:31But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.


Why does Jesus say that a man's life depends on it?
Mat 4:4But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.


Some people dont believe that He also mean the words that His prophets and apostles have declared to the world.



Good luck with that
CRIB

Crib.... you my friend are engaged in 2 dimensional thinking and we are living in a multidimensional reality... thanks for the dialog, but it is apparent we are at two different places, one day you may understand where I am coming from, maybe not, for now however its all good....

 

[StormyOne]

What you've said has truth to it, but it is also true that by these very observations numerous false religions have risen: Spiritualism, more specifically Wicca. Hinduism, where practically everything upon the earth is a god. Practically all Native American religions...obviously there are more but you get my point. I realize your point that nature and everything around us points to a marvelous Creator...even EGW says that on the first page to Steps to Christ I believe...not that that's your thing but still...

But nature alone does not bear truth. Jesus said "I am the truth..."

And as for the devil remark: yes we can learn from him, definitely, but with your direct response to what I had said, it implied you even meant conversing with him...I certainly wouldn't go there.

from the very bible that you say you trust 100%, over 38,000 denominations have arisen, yet you are not suggesting that the bible is not true are you? There are multiple ways to get to know the Creator, the bible is one of those ways... that is my other point.... the bible to me is a vehicle that can be used to introduce one to the Creator, not become the end all...

You can learn from someone without conversing with them, and I am not advocating that you have a fireside chat with the devil. However will you admit that there are two sides to every story?

 

[Adventtruth]

from the very bible that you say you trust 100%, over 38,000 denominations have arisen, yet you are not suggesting that the bible is not true are you? There are multiple ways to get to know the Creator, the bible is one of those ways... that is my other point.... the bible to me is a vehicle that can be used to introduce one to the Creator, not become the end all...

You can learn from someone without conversing with them, and I am not advocating that you have a fireside chat with the devil. However will you admit that there are two sides to every story?

And what creator is there outside of Christ? Kindly tell me that please.

AT

 

[StormyOne]

And what creator is there outside of Christ? Kindly tell me that please.

AT

humans create all the time.....

 

[AndrewK788]

humans create all the time.....

Do we? Or do we simply rearrange and reconfigure that which is already in existence?

 

[AndrewK788]

from the very bible that you say you trust 100%, over 38,000 denominations have arisen, yet you are not suggesting that the bible is not true are you? There are multiple ways to get to know the Creator, the bible is one of those ways... that is my other point.... the bible to me is a vehicle that can be used to introduce one to the Creator, not become the end all...

You can learn from someone without conversing with them, and I am not advocating that you have a fireside chat with the devil. However will you admit that there are two sides to every story?

I have no problem with admitting there are additional vehicles that can lead one to the Saviour. There definitely are. But if one of these means leads you to a conclusion that directly conflicts with the Bible, and a decision must be made for which one you will believe, which is it?

And as for the devil, yes I believe there are 2 sides to every story. Obviously there have to be. However, if you think you could get any sort of honesty out of the devil then that's your conviction and not mine lol...if he convinced a third of the angels with his story I'm sure it would take much less for fallen humanity...thus I don't intend to give him an ear...

 

[Adventtruth]

humans create all the time.....

Ok...in the context of this discussion, and your posting to which I was replying... you say humans have the ability to create, thus they are the creator as you put it:

There are multiple ways to get to know the Creator, the bible is one of those ways... that is my other point.... the bible to me is a vehicle that can be used to introduce one to the Creator, not become the end all...

Is this all you could muster...or do you really want a serious conversation to get at this issues...or will you bow out gracefully as you usually do?


AT

 

[Cribstyl]

Crib.... you my friend are engaged in 2 dimensional thinking and we are living in a multidimensional reality... thanks for the dialog, but it is apparent we are at two different places, one day you may understand where I am coming from, maybe not, for now however its all good....

Ouch that hurts.:o:o:o but no blood loss,



"Multidimentional reality" is code words for trying to establish a superhighway to endless possibilties but God has established only one way.

Childlike faith is not faith with absent of knowlege, it's knowing and trusting that God save through His Holy scriptures.

2Ti 3:15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.


1Cr 1:20Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Cr 1:21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.


1Cr 2:5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

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A man name Martin Luther King had faith in the wisdom found in God's word. His faith was instumental in overcoming insurmountable odds causing greater freedom and equality for all men.

A boy named David had faith in the wisdom found in God's word. His faith was instumental in overcoming insurmountable odds causing freedom and prosperity to Israel
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CRIB