what do you know about Islam?

[elwill]

You're STILL allowed to marry someone that young. It's not a 'cultural' thing. Nor is it pegged to the 7th Century.

montalban , it wasn't never religious issue , not before not now not in the future , and wasn't a religous issue in islam nor christianity nor judas

it was always cultural issue , in your culture it's 18yo , in others 21yo , and you will find many other cultures which determine 17 or 16 or 14 or 12yo

what about the laws of your society 300 years ago ? was it 18 yo ? i dont think so

 

[Jefell]

GOD is GOOD.
GOD is LOVE.
GOD is TRUTH.

GOD is the CREATOR.

What GOOD, LOVE, & TRUTH come from the life Mohamaad?
What GOOD, LOVE, & TRUTH come from the life Jesus Christ?

COMPARE & SEE WHAT IS GOOD, WHAT IS LOVE, WHAT IS TRUTH.


Do not be afraid to follow GOD. He loves you more than you could imagine. The path of the Lord is clear. I pray that GOD gives you sight.


With Love,
- Jefell

www.GETSHOOK.com - For Inspiration & Encouragement.

 

[Rasta]

GOD is GOOD.
GOD is LOVE.
GOD is TRUTH.

GOD is the CREATOR.

Prove it. Please note the definition of prove.

COMPARE & SEE WHAT IS GOOD, WHAT IS LOVE, WHAT IS TRUTH.

I'm not sure you understand what good, love, and truth actually mean. Me thinks you define them in esoteric means with the intention that you can apply them as you chose.

Example. You talk about me going to hell, with love, then proclaim god is good. This displays cognotive disonence as burning one of your creations for eternity is not good or loving, even if YOU say it is.

Do not be afraid to follow GOD.

Now you are projecting your own insecurities on others. This is poor form Jefell. You are just like everyone else. You don't have the answers. You hope you do. You feel the louder you proclaim, the more certain this makes you appear.

He loves you more than you could imagine. The path of the Lord is clear.

Is it clear? Is that why there are literaly HUNDREDS of different denominations of Christians who constantly argue, bicker, and denounce others as not "TRUE" Christians? CLEAR INDEED.

I pray that GOD gives you sight.

I pray Thor is merciful on you. You still have time to divert his wrath. It's not too late for you Jefell. You can still be saved. You don't want him to hit you on the toe with his hammer do you? Thor says that it really smarts.

 

[ChildishFears]

montalban , it wasn't never religious issue , not before not now not in the future , and wasn't a religous issue in islam nor christianity nor judas

it was always cultural issue , in your culture it's 18yo , in others 21yo , and you will find many other cultures which determine 17 or 16 or 14 or 12yo

what about the laws of your society 300 years ago ? was it 18 yo ? i dont think so

I think the problem is when Muhammad reportedly married and later had sexual intercourse with Aisha at those ages, it ceased to be only a cultural issue. Muhammad is suppose to be the model leader in ethical righteousness, so his actions may seem perfectly suitable to his followers, and that mentality obviously has pervaded throughout the centuries. We know it's NOT right for a fully grown male to marry and engage in sexual intercourse with a child, but those that believe it is, must of gotten that idea from somewhere right? If a Muslim male wanted to married a 6 year old child, would you consider this to be perfectly fine request?

 

[Secundulus]

The fact is that the Muslims have deified Muhammed to the point that he sits at the right hand of God.

Don't make images of God . . . Don't make images of Muhammed.
Don't blaspheme God . . . Don't blaspheme Muhammed.
God is perfect . . . Muhammed is perfect.

They have substituted Muhammed for Christ.

They don't do this for any of the other prophets, Why?

If Muhammed really is a prophet then I imagine he is crying over the fact that a billion of his followers worship him instead of God.

 

[peaceful soul]

........

*sigh* In Islam all of Muhammed's wives are seen as archetypes. There's no law saying "You can marry an older woman" in the Koran, but in Muhammed's life, given he's considered the ultimate example of behaviour, that he married an older woman menas that it is 'allowed'.

He married a nine year old. It is 'allowed' based on the fact Muhammed did it. Unless there's a specific ruling against it, such as the fact Muhammed had nine wives, but you're allowed only four - if you can maintain them.

And of course in his time it was allowed to have a temporary marriage. Shi'a believe that this is still allowed.

I NEVER made the claim that
a) Moslems must marry children
or
b) All Moslems will

This, Montalban, is the most difficult part for Muslims to deal with. They can't escape the negative values of their prophet's actions. Regardless, they will always see him in a good light, which means that they have to justify their dilemma in some ways.

In God's eyes, wrong is wrong, whether it is today or 200 years ago. God's moral standards don't change; otherwise God would be relativistic as well.

 

[Montalban]

montalban , it wasn't never religious issue , not before not now not in the future , and wasn't a religous issue in islam nor christianity nor judas

it was always cultural issue , in your culture it's 18yo , in others 21yo , and you will find many other cultures which determine 17 or 16 or 14 or 12yo

what about the laws of your society 300 years ago ? was it 18 yo ? i dont think so

If you want to ignore the Islamic advice sites I cited that's up to you

 

[Montalban]

This, Montalban, is the most difficult part for Muslims to deal with. They can't escape the negative values of their prophet's actions. Regardless, they will always see him in a good light, which means that they have to justify their dilemma in some ways.

In God's eyes, wrong is wrong, whether it is today or 200 years ago. God's moral standards don't change; otherwise God would be relativistic as well.

What's annoying for me is that I go out of my way to cite them evidence from Islamic sites, and they ignore it. I had one Moslem making the very un-Islamic argument, that Muhammed is not a moral example for Moslems. He gleefully repeated this. I cited him yet ANOTHER Islamic advice site, and he still pressed on ahead with his opinion.

They have difficulty facing facts

 

[Montalban]

i will repeat the verse because yours is incomplete

You add nothing to that verse.

Or, are you trying to say there's something your god could not do?

 

[Montalban]

find for me where muslims sayed that it's "Sunnah for us to marry 9 yo girls because Muhammed(pbuh) did so in his time

our prophet was traveling by camel , you know !! , we not travel in modern days by camel as a sunnah for us because mohammed (pbuh) did so

You've managed to post for several days without making a point.

Nothing you've said shows that Moslems are forbidden to do this now. Your best bet would be saying Moslems within a western-influenced legal enviornoment would not be able to do so.

However you've done nothing to show that Muhammed is not an example for Moslems.

 

[Islam_mulia]

That's not true. I've stated the 'example' of Muhammed. I've evidenced that he is an example from a Moslem site. You've not addressed this at all. All you've done is to repeat a non-point about it not being legislated.

Muhammad (pbuh) is a fine example for Muslims to follow. I have stressed that many times. However, your misperceived idea is that when Muhammad (pbuh) married Aishah at a young age, you would like to think that Muslims must marry a woman at a young age too. There was NEVER a teaching in that. If you think that way, then show us where it is stated in the Quran and hadith that Muslims must follow the example of Muhammad (pbuh) by marrying a 9 year old.

That's false. And in fact it doesn't help your case in defence of Muhammed, because potentially a scholar could have the girl married even younger than 9

Now you're suggesting that scholars just arbitrarily come up with an age - instead of using the example of Muhammed as a guide.

Well there you go. How's this a defence of marrying young girls?

Your logic sucks. If Muslim scholars do allow Muslims to marry women at a young age, they would at least state the minimum age is 9, as you been repeating too many times Muhammad (pbuh) married Aisha at 9.

The only conclusion I could say is that at this age of ours, marrying at 9 or lower is not practical, socially or economically, and Muslim scholars do take that into consideration to ensure that the spouses are happy.

*sigh*
Not only have you ignored my evidence from Moslem web-sites, you went on to suggest that a Moslem man can marry a younger girl, and in fact your point to an example of Saudi Arabia allowing just this.

See above.

 

[Islam_mulia]

Most early Chrisitans didn't know how to respond to Islam.

lol! Ladies and gentlemen, may I introduce to you the greatest 21st century Christian critic of Islam.

 

[Islam_mulia]

You shouldn't say it, because it doesn't prove any point.

If Chrisitans were silent - you don't believe that justifies your faith. If they criticise it, you certianly don't feel it detracts from your faith. John of Damascus says your Koran has Jesus the son of Mary, the sister of Moses. Does this detract from your faith?

Fallacious logic!
Writing in the 7th century, John of Damascus, whom I would think was more knowledgeable of Islam than you do (obviously), knew very well there was no taboo or sin in polygamous marriage or marrying woman of a young age at that time.

If our focus is on Muhammad's marriage of Aisha, you certainly have a good way of diverting the discussion to Jesus, son of Mary?

That's more dishonesty on your part. There's no reason to believe that I as an Orthodox even begin to view my Bible in anyway like you view the Koran.

Refer back to my question and stop diverting the issue on other things.

I quoted what I wrote below:

Since Montalban now is crying foul about this marriage, maybe we should ask him where in the christian scripture or tradition was it said that (1) it was morally wrong to marry at a young age and (2) a minimum age where it is morally justifiable to marry for a woman.

I am fully aware of your Orthodox non-scriptura belief, hence I asked you to give us the teachings based on your scriptures or traditions of your faith in determining (1) if it is permissible to marry a woman a young age (2) a minimum age for woman to get married.

Your obvious silence on this and your effort to deflect this discussion, had got me worried that maybe the Christian faith do not oppose child marriage at all. Neither Jesus, Paul or any Christian Apostolic Fathers condemn child marriage and here we have a 21st century crusader crying foul over something their teachers and saints do not even say a word of disapproval?

And please, dont tell me the 7th century or 1st century Christians and saints did not know what to say about child marriage?

 

[elwill]

I think the problem is when Muhammad reportedly married and later had sexual intercourse with Aisha at those ages, it ceased to be only a cultural issue. Muhammad is suppose to be the model leader in ethical righteousness, so his actions may seem perfectly suitable to his followers, and that mentality obviously has pervaded throughout the centuries. We know it's NOT right for a fully grown male to marry and engage in sexual intercourse with a child, but those that believe it is, must of gotten that idea from somewhere right? If a Muslim male wanted to married a 6 year old child, would you consider this to be perfectly fine request?

hi ,childishfears

when we see the actions of our prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as the model leader in ethical righteousness , it dosn't mean that we must travel by camel like him , because the using of camel were cultural , the same with his marraige , it was normal for a girl to marry in this age , so this marriage wasn't somthing special or something new in islam , not the prophet nor his companions nor pagans or christians or jews talked about the age of aisha .

if we must consider his life as a typical example by this way, so the muslims should marry older womens in the first , as mohammed (pbuh) did , then we can can marry 9yo , and behold , we must wait the offer from the father first , because our prophet (pbuh) married aishah by the offer from her father .

you may be think that muslims consider the marriage in these early age as a perfect age for marraige because our prophet (pbuh) did ?
well , don't worry , we don't think about this marriage by this way
and you will never find muslims says , that its better for muslems to marry 9yo girl as a suunah . you will never find this in our teaching

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

when we see the actions of our prophet Muhammad(pbuh) as the model leader in ethical righteousness , it dosn't mean that we must travel by camel like him , because the using of camel were cultural , the same with his marraige ,

If gas prices keep going up the way they are, I may invest in a camel myself then when it dies, I can make a nice camel sweater or winter coat with it

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matthew 3:4 He yet, the John, had his raiment from hairs of a camel/kamhlou <2574> and a leathern girdle/purse about his loin, the yet food was of him locusts and wild honey.

2574. kamelos kam'-ay-los of Hebrew origin (1581); a "camel":--camel.

 

[elwill]

In God's eyes, wrong is wrong, whether it is today or 200 years ago. God's moral standards don't change; otherwise God would be relativistic as well.

i completely agree with you peacefull soul
proof for me then that it's wrong in God's eyes

 

[elwill]

If you want to ignore the Islamic advice sites I cited that's up to you

i didn't notice any sites advice muslims to marry 9yo girls , show me it please

 

[Montalban]

Muhammad (pbuh) is a fine example for Muslims to follow. I have stressed that many times. However, your misperceived idea is that when Muhammad married Aishah at a young age,

Four times now I've said that this is not my argument. Even you must have read it by now

 

[Montalban]

i didn't notice any sites advice muslims to marry 9yo girls , show me it please

*sigh*
http://www.islamicvoice.com/august.98/marriage.htm#EAR

 

[Montalban]

You cite John of Damascus' 'silence' as approval.

Fallacious logic!

Then stop using it.

Example...

If our focus is on Muhammad's marriage of Aisha, you certainly have a good way of diverting the discussion to Jesus, son of Mary?

It goes to the point where you're setting up John as an 'expert' and he says your faith makes lots of mistakes. That he announces some doesn't mean he is uncritical of all your errors.