Peter Is Not The Rock!

[Rick Otto]

What are you talkin' about? The lack of the greek support of the papacy is "proof"!

 

[sunlover1]

Fireinfolding had so many excellent posts here, I would hate to seen them swept back under the rug.

cool Lamb.
Thanks again.
Don't forget her
in your prayers.

sunlover

 

[Catholic Christian]

ALBERT BARNES
(NINETEENTH-CENTURY PRESBYTERIAN)

"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: ‘Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion" [Barnes’ Notes on the New Testament, 170].




JOHN BROADUS
( NINETEENTH-CENTURY CALVINISTIC BAPTIST)

"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that ‘upon this rock’ means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter’s confession" [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].




CRAIG L. BLOMBERG
( CONTEMPORARY BAPTIST)

"The expression ‘this rock’ almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following ‘the Christ’ in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter’s name (Petros) and the word ‘rock’ (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification" [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].




J. KNOX CHAMBLIN
( CONTEMPORARY PRESBYTERIAN)

"By the words ‘this rock’ Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter’s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself" ["Matthew" in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].




R. T. FRANCE
( CONTEMPORARY ANGLICAN)

"The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus’ declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter’s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter’s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church’s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied" (Gospel According to Matthew, 254).




HERMAN RIDDERBOS
( CONTEMPORARY DUTCH REFORMED)

"It is well known that the Greek word petra translated ‘rock’ here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (‘Peter’) to petra is that petra was the normal word for ‘rock.’ . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words ‘on this rock [petra]’ indeed refer to Peter" [Bible Student’s Commentary: Matthew, 303].




DONALD HAGNER
( CONTEMPORARY EVANGELICAL)

"The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy" (Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

 

[Catholic Christian]

The Attempt to Whitewash Peter’s Primacy
by Steven O’Reilly
(a NON copyright article)
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0002fea2.asp

Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me more than these?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Feed my lambs." He said to him again a second time, "Simon, son of Jonah, do you love me?" He said to him, "Yes, Lord; you know that I love you." He said to him, "Tend my sheep." He said to him the third time, "Do you love me?" And he said to Him, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you." Jesus said to him, "Feed my sheep" (John 21:15–17, New King James Version).

In John’s gospel Jesus—addressing himself specifically to Peter—charges Peter to "feed my lambs," "tend my sheep," and "feed my sheep." "Tending" and "feeding" are metaphors for governing and teaching, a clear indication that Christ intended Peter to govern and teach his "sheep," i.e., the whole Church. Peter, and through him his successors, the bishops of Rome, are granted a universal primacy over the Church. Opponents of Roman primacy, such as James White in his book The Roman Catholic Controversy, reject the notion that by these words Jesus intended to confer a primacy of jurisdiction upon Peter and his successors.

White claims Peter’s role is indistinguishable from the other apostles, saying John 21:15–17 does not establish that "only Peter was told to shepherd God’s flock." According to White, Paul "seems to have been ignorant of this injunction" when he advises the Ephesian elders to "be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the Church of God" (Acts 20:28). White observes that, "Paul does not say, ‘Since Peter is the chief shepherd, you act as undershepherds of the flock of God.’"


PLEASE CONTINUE READING AT THIS LINK
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2000/0002fea2.asp

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Attempt to Whitewash Peter’s Primacy

You mean the Roman Pope's primacy

Matthew 16:16 Answering yet Simon Peter/petroV <4074> said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the God, the living".
17 Answering yet the Jesus said to him, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jonah: that flesh and blood not it un-covers to thee, but the Father of Me, the in the heavens.

18 `And I yet to thee am saying, that thou art Peter/petroV <4074>, and upon this, the rock/petra <4073> I shall be building of Me the assembly, and gates of Hades not shall be prevailing of her;

Tex-Rec NT) Matthew 16:18 kagw <2504> [AND I] de <1161> {YET} soi <4671> {TO THEE} legw <3004> (5719) { AM SAYING,} oti <3754> {THAT} su <4771> {THOU} ei <1488> (5748) {ART} petroV <4074> {PETER,} kai <2532> {AND} epi <1909> {UPON} tauth <3778> [THIS] th <3588> {THE} petra <4073> {ROCK} oikodomhsw <3618> (5692) {I WILL BUILD} mou <3450> {OF ME} thn <3588> {THE} ekklhsian <1577> {ASSEMBLY,} kai <2532> {AND} pulai <4439> {GATES} adou <86> {OF HADES} ou <3756> {NOT} katiscusousin <2729> (5692) {SHALL BE PREVAILING} authV <846> {OF IT.}

http://www.christiantruth.com/mt16.html

The Church Fathers' Interpretation of the Rock of Matthew 16:18​

An Historical Refutation of the Claims of Roman Catholicism

 

[Catholic Christian]

The Fathers attest to the fact that the church of Rome was the central and most authoritative church. They attest to the Church&#8217;s reliance on Rome for advice, for mediation of disputes, and for guidance on doctrinal issues. They note, as Ignatius of Antioch does, that Rome "holds the presidency" among the other churches, and that, as Irenaeus explains, "because of its superior origin, all the churches must agree" with Rome. They are also clear on the fact that it is communion with Rome and the bishop of Rome that causes one to be in communion with the Catholic Church. This displays a recognition that, as Cyprian of Carthage puts it, Rome is "the principal church, in which sacerdotal unity has its source."

 

[HisKid1973]

Why would Rome have a "superior origin"...I would think if there was such a title Jerusalem would carry it..

 

[Catholic Christian]

Why would Rome have a "superior origin"...I would think if there was such a title Jerusalem would carry it..

Hmmm. Well, I believe that after Jerusalem was destroyed, and since Peter and Paul both ministered in Rome, Irenaeous probably saw Rome as the centerpiece of the Church

 

[Rick Otto]

The Fathers attest to ~

You're spamming this post, terry.
Is there nothing at all complicated about you?
Please chill out & stop making a caricature of yourself, bro.

 

[Rick Otto]

cool Lamb.
Thanks again.
Don't forget her
in your prayers.

sunlover

She's unforgettable.

 

[Catholic Christian]

ALBERT BARNES
(NINETEENTH-CENTURY PRESBYTERIAN)


"The meaning of this phrase may be thus expressed: &#8216;Thou, in saying that I am the Son of God, hast called me by a name expressive of my true character. I, also, have given to thee a name expressive of your character. I have called you Peter, a rock. . . . I see that you are worthy of the name and will be a distinguished support of my religion" [Barnes&#8217; Notes on the New Testament, 170].




JOHN BROADUS
( NINETEENTH-CENTURY CALVINISTIC BAPTIST)


"As Peter means rock, the natural interpretation is that &#8216;upon this rock&#8217; means upon thee. . . . It is an even more far-fetched and harsh play upon words if we understand the rock to be Christ and a very feeble and almost unmeaning play upon words if the rock is Peter&#8217;s confession" [Commentary on the Gospel of Matthew, 356].




CRAIG L. BLOMBERG
( CONTEMPORARY BAPTIST)


"The expression &#8216;this rock&#8217; almost certainly refers to Peter, following immediately after his name, just as the words following &#8216;the Christ&#8217; in verse 16 applied to Jesus. The play on words in the Greek between Peter&#8217;s name (Petros) and the word &#8216;rock&#8217; (petra) makes sense only if Peter is the Rock and if Jesus is about to explain the significance of this identification" [New American Commentary: Matthew, 22:252].




J. KNOX CHAMBLIN
( CONTEMPORARY PRESBYTERIAN)


"By the words &#8216;this rock&#8217; Jesus means not himself, nor his teaching, nor God the Father, nor Peter&#8217;s confession, but Peter himself. The phrase is immediately preceded by a direct and emphatic reference to Peter. As Jesus identifies himself as the builder, the rock on which he builds is most naturally understood as someone (or something) other than Jesus himself" ["Matthew" in Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 742].




R. T. FRANCE
( CONTEMPORARY ANGLICAN)


"The word-play, and the whole structure of the passage, demands that this verse is every bit as much Jesus&#8217; declaration about Peter as verse 16 was Peter&#8217;s declaration about Jesus. Of course it is on the basis of Peter&#8217;s confession that Jesus declares his role as the Church&#8217;s foundation, but it is to Peter, not his confession, that the rock metaphor is applied" (Gospel According to Matthew, 254).




HERMAN RIDDERBOS
( CONTEMPORARY DUTCH REFORMED)


"It is well known that the Greek word petra translated &#8216;rock&#8217; here is different from the proper name Peter. The slight difference between them has no special importance, however. The most likely explanation for the change from petros (&#8216;Peter&#8217 to petra is that petra was the normal word for &#8216;rock.&#8217; . . . There is no good reason to think that Jesus switched from petros to petra to show that he was not speaking of the man Peter but of his confession as the foundation of the Church. The words &#8216;on this rock [petra]&#8217; indeed refer to Peter" [Bible Student&#8217;s Commentary: Matthew, 303].




DONALD HAGNER
( CONTEMPORARY EVANGELICAL)


"The frequent attempts that have been made, largely in the past, to deny [that Peter is the rock] in favor of the view that the confession itself is the rock . . . seem to be largely motivated by Protestant prejudice against a passage that is used by the Roman Catholics to justify the papacy" (Word Biblical Commentary 33b:470).

Apparently, these reformed Christians differ with ya'll's definition of the Rock.

The Catholic Church is not built on the Papacy. The Church is the Body of Christ - Christ is our Head, and we are the Body. The Pope is merely the successor of Peter and is commanded by Christ to fulfill those duties Christ gave to Peter:

"And I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock ['Peter' is Greek for 'rock'] 1 will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).

"I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you loose on Earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 16:19).

"I have prayed that your own faith may not fail; and once you have turned back, you must strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:33).

God sent an angel to Peter to announce the Resurrection of Jesus (Mark 6:7).

The risen Jesus first appeared to Peter (Luke 24:34).

Peter headed the meeting which elected Matthias as replacement for Judas (Acts 1:13-26).

Peter led the apostles in preaching on Pentecost (Acts 2:14).

Peter led the meeting which decided on which terms Gentiles would be allowed into the Church (Acts 15).

Peter was the judge of Ananias and Saphira (Acts 5:1-11).

Jesus entrusted Peter with his flock, making him too a Good Shepherd (John 21:15-17).

Peter performed the first miracle after Pentecost (Acts 3).

After his conversion Paul went to see Peter, the chief apostle (Gal. 1:18).

Throughout the New Testament, when the apostles are listed as a group, Peter's name is always first. Sometimes it's just "Peter and the twelve. "

Peter's name is mentioned more often than the names of all the other apostles put together.

 

[simonthezealot]

Apparently, these reformed Christians differ with ya'll's definition of the Rock.

terryobrien AKA trento

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by tadoflamb
YOU WIN!

The weight of that rock is crushing!

Yabadabadoo!!!!!!!!

I see the above quote from tadoflamb as conceding or am I reading it wrong?

 

[mont974x4]

who has been crushed by a mere pebble?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

I see the above quote from tadoflamb as conceding or am I reading it wrong?

Should we send him an innertube to float back across the Tiber?

 

[HisKid1973]

Should we send him an innertube to float back across the Tiber?

Thanks for my morning laughter. We might need a floatillla from future news..

 

[myfavoritmartin]

Thanks for my morning laughter...

No problem Kim! my alter ego MFM got all the humor
-STZ

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Should we send him an innertube to float back across the Tiber?

It may have to have the word "FAITH" written on it though

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 16:26 And on all of these, between Us [NC Faith/Life/Spirit] and Ye [OC Law/Death/Flesh] a great chasm/casma <5490> hath been established, so that those willing to cross-over/diabhnai <1224> (5629) hence toward ye not be able to, no yet thence toward us may be ferrying/diaperwsin <1276>.

Hebrews 11:29 By Faith They crossed-over/diebhsan <1224> (5627) the Red Sea as thru Dry: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.

http://foru.ms/t4437955-lazarus-and-the-rich-man.html

 

[sunlover1]

2 Then fourteen years later I went back to Jerusalem again,
this time with Barnabas; and Titus came along, too.
I went there because God revealed to me that I should go.​

While I was there I met privately with those considered to be leaders of the church
and shared with them the message I had been preaching to the Gentiles.
I wanted to make sure that we were in agreement,
for fear that all my efforts had been wasted and I was running the race for nothing.
3 And they supported me and did not even demand that my companion Titus
be circumcised, though he was a Gentile.&#65279;​

4 Even that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there&#8212;
false ones, really&#65279;&#65279;&#8212;who were secretly brought in.
They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus.
They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations.
5 But we refused to give in to them for a single moment
We wanted to preserve the truth of the gospel message for you.​

6 And the leaders of the church had nothing to add to what I was preaching.
(By the way, their reputation as great leaders made no difference to me,
for God has no favorites.) ​

7 Instead, they saw that God had given me the responsibility of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles,
just as he had given Peter the responsibility of preaching to the Jews. ​

8 For the same God who worked through Peter as the apostle to the Jews
also worked through me as the apostle to the Gentiles.​

 

[TraderJack]

The Attempt to Whitewash Peter’s Primacy

(sound effects---LOUD BOOMING VOICE SAYING)


PICK IT UP AND READ