Peter Is Not The Rock!

[StTherese]

Not.

Jesus has nothing to do with lies, fraud and idol worship.

I agree! And for that matter, neither does the RCC!!!!!!

So.....you disagree that Jesus spoke in Aramaic??????????

 

[Rick Otto]

because the recieved text is in Greek.

So you disagree with the scripture?

 

[LLWHA]

I agree! And for that matter, neither does the RCC!!!!!!

So.....you disagree that Jesus spoke in Aramaic??????????

I believe Jesus had nothing to do with anything in the Evil Roman Empire.

I believe Jesus had (has) nothing to do with rcc.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I agree! And for that matter, neither does the RCC!!!!!!

So.....you disagree that Jesus spoke in Aramaic??????????

I use the Greek texts. If they are fallible, then so is the whole NT, and is already what the atheists, jews and muslims use as evidence that are NT is corrupt.

I will stick with the Divine biblical greek thank you and if you want to view the pope as successor to "peter/cephas", then by all means that is your perogative. Other than that, I am pretty much thru discussing the "peter". Peace.

Hierousalem (Strong's 2419) occurs 83 times in 80 verses:

ierou-salhm <2419> #2411 #4532

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Matthew 24:1 And coming-out, the Jesus, from the Temple/ierou <2411>, and his disciples toward-come to show him the house-builds of the temple,

Hebrews 7:1 For this the Melchisedek/melcisedek <3198> , king of Salem/salhm <4532>, priest/iereuV of the God of the Most High/uyistou <5310>, the together-joining Abraham turning-back from the smiting of the kings, and did bless him

http://www.kingdombiblestudies.org/priest/RP24.htm


One of the most intriguing descriptions of the unique character of the High Priesthood of Jesus is found in Heb. 7:17 wherein it is stated, "Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek." This one grand statement shows that Jesus is not like any of the other priests who the people of Israel knew so much about. The entire seventh chapter of Hebrews is about THE MELCHIZEDEK CONNECTION, that is, it is about the way Jesus Christ, and thus, His body, the Royal Priesthood, is related to a strange man named Melchizedek.

 

[StTherese]

I believe Jesus had nothing to do with anything in the Evil Roman Empire.

I believe Jesus had (has) nothing to do with rcc.

You are free to believe what you like, but that does not make it true. You obviously are very ignorant as to what the Catholic Church is.

Peace be with you.

 

[Rick Otto]

The Pope & the Magesterium can & do say whatever they want true, but that does not make what they say true.
You obviously resort to calling him ignorant because you can't intelligently defend the indefensible.

 

[Rhamiel]

The Pope & the Magesterium can & do say whatever they want true, but that does not make what they say true.
You obviously resort to calling him ignorant because you can't intelligently defend the indefensible.

I think she does not want to stick around if people are going to call her an idoleter, can't say I blame her

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LLWHA
I believe Jesus had nothing to do with anything in the Evil Roman Empire.

I believe Jesus had (has) nothing to do with rcc.

You are free to believe what you like, but that does not make it true. You obviously are very ignorant as to what the Catholic Church is.

Peace be with you.

Hi. After 2000 yrs, I am sure everyone is pretty much aware of what the Catholic [CHRIST-ian] church/Pope is by now, even the Orthodoxs.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Btw, how do Orthodox feel about the Roman church using that verse in Matt 16:18 for Vatican Papacy? Thanks.

petra <4073> Used in Matt 16:18, Matt 27:60, 1 Corin 10:4, 1 Peter 2:8

Matthew 16:18 `And I to you am saying, that thou art Peter/petroV <4074> , and upon this, the ROCK/petra <4073> I shall be building of Me the assembly, and gates of Hades not shall be prevailing of her;

Matthew 27:60 and laid it in to the New of him tomb, the one he quarries in the rock/petra <4073>: and toward-rolling a stone/liqon <3037>, great, to the door of the tomb, and departed.

1 Peter 2:8 and a stone/liqoV <3037> of stumbling and a rock/petra <4073> of snare--who are stumbling to the word, being stubborn, --into which also they were set/placed;

 

[Rick Otto]

I think she does not want to stick around if people are going to call her an idoleter, can't say I blame her

Can ya blame her for abandoning scripture in favor of Aramaic? Probably not.

 

[TraderJack]

I agree! And for that matter, neither does the RCC!!!!!!

Better investigate Rodrigo Borgia(pope alexander VI) and the Borgia family before making such an assertion as the above.

 

[StTherese]

Better investigate Rodrigo Borgia(pope alexander VI) and the Borgia family before making such an assertion as the above.

Pope Alexander VI-Rodrigo Borgia


http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01289a.htm


An impartial appreciation of the career of this extraordinary person must at once distinguish between the man and the office.

"An imperfect setting", says Dr. Pastor (op. cit., III, 475), "does not affect the intrinsic worth of the jewel, nor does the golden coin lose its value when it passes through impure hands. In so far as the priest is a public officer of a holy Church, a blameless life is expected from him, both because he is by his office the model of virtue to whom the laity look up, and because his life, when virtuous, inspires in onlookers respect for the society of which he is an ornament.

But the treasures of the Church, her Divine character, her holiness, Divine revelation, the grace of God, spiritual authority, it is well known, are not dependent on the moral character of the agents and officers of the Church.

The foremost of her priests cannot diminish by an iota the intrinsic value of the spiritual treasures confided to him."

There have been at all times wicked men in the ecclesiastical ranks. Our Lord foretold, as one of its severest trials, the presence in His Church not only of false brethren, but of rulers who would offend, by various forms of selfishness, both the children of the household and "those who are without". Similarly, He compared His beloved spouse, the Church, to a threshing floor, on which fall both chaff and grain until the time of separation. The most severe arraignments of Alexander, because in a sense official, are those of his Catholic contemporaries, Pope Julius II (Gregorovius, VII, 494) and the Augustinian cardinal and reformer, Aegidius of Viterbo, in his manuscript "Historia XX Saeculorum", preserved at Rome in the Bibliotheca Angelica. The Oratorian Raynaldus (d. 1677), who continued the semi-official Annals of Baronius, gave to the world at Rome (ad an. 1460, no. 41) the above-mentioned paternal but severe reproof of the youthful Cardinal by Pius II, and stated elsewhere (ad an. 1495, no. 26) that it was in his time the opinion of historians that Alexander had obtained the papacy partly through money and partly through promises and the persuasion that he would not interfere with the lives of his electors.

 

[Rick Otto]

It is sadly laughable to imagine so wide a gap between the lack of faith & morals of a man and the inerrancy of that same man's pontifications on faith & morals!

 

[StTherese]

It is sadly laughable to imagine so wide a gap between the lack of faith & morals of a man and the inerrancy of that same man's pontifications on faith & morals!

So if a Baptist minister cheats on his wife and steals from his church does that in any way change or affect the doctrines held by the Baptist denomination?

The Church is made up of sinners....it is Christ who makes her Holy!

 

[Rick Otto]

So if a Baptist minister cheats on his wife and steals from his church does that in any way change or affect the doctrines held by the Baptist denomination?

The Church is made up of sinners....it is Christ who makes her Holy!

It defames the doctrines.
It doesn't change or destroy them, but it changes & destroys an unbeliever's confidence in them.
And how ludicrous does it seem to assert God can protect His word, but not the men He supposedly put in charge over it, from their own lust & vanity?

 

[Fireinfolding]

It defames the doctrines.
It doesn't change or destroy them, but it changes & destroys an unbeliever's confidence in them.
And how ludicrous does it seem to assert God can protect His word, but not the men He supposedly put in charge over it, from their own lust & vanity?

Thats true

1Titus 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

If someones not hearing ya sometimes theres actually a good reason for it.

 

[TraderJack]

Pope Alexander VI-Rodrigo BorgiaAn impartial appreciation of the career of this extraordinary person must at once distinguish between the man and the office...

A convenient excuse used constantly. Bill Clinton used the same excuse.[p]What you are saying is that the man who claims to be the Vicar of Christ does not have to conform to a Christ-like image but can be throughly wicked and an anti-christ as Borgia was.[p]That does not wash.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Thats true

1Titus 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

If someones not hearing ya sometimes theres actually a good reason for it.

I am now finding out more on why the Muslims reject the Apostle Paul and one Muslim even messaged me to say I should accept Islam as they also accept JESUS as a "Great Prophet".

I also fault the Roman Church for putting so much emphasis on the "peter" of the NT.

Even some within CHrist-ianity reject Paul!!!!!

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

.......There are a number of historical facts, quotations from Paul, and quotations from Yahshua recorded in the New Testament that leave us with some quite compelling evidence against his apostleship being recognized in heaven.....................


...............A couple verses latter Paul takes a cheap shot at Peter. Without Peter around to defend himself, Paul brags to the Galatians how he put Peter in his place before the entire church of Antioch.

"But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews played the hypocrite with him so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straight forward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "if you being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?" Galatians 2:11-14 NKJV​

Then Paul goes on to describe how hypocritical Peter was being for living a different gospel from the one that he (Paul) preached. It is interesting to note that earlier in the book (Galatians. 1:8,9) Paul commanded his followers to damn, (curse, or doom to destruction), anyone who preaches a different gospel than that which he had preached.
According to him then, that would include damning Peter, if not James and John also! It is obvious to the reader of the first two chapters of Galatians, that Paul is demanding that the Galatian church follow no one but him, not even the original apostles back in Jerusalem.

 

[TraderJack]

Here is the context.

Originally Posted by LLWHA Not.Jesus has nothing to do with lies, fraud and idol worship.

You then replied:

I agree! And for that matter, neither does the RCC!!!!!!

When confronted with the wickedness, lies, deceit, fraud, murders, etc of Rodrigo Borgia, a pope of the Roman Catholic religion, the so called leader of Christendom, Vicar of Christ, obfuscation is given that the man in the office of pope does not have to conform to a standard of morality, when it is claimed by Rome that the pope of Rome is the representative of Christ on earth.[p]Now the context is altered to apply to doctrines to escape the reality of the thoroughly wicked life of a counterfeit and deceived, namely Rodrigo Borgia. Since he was the leader of the Roman Catholic religion, and thoroughly full of lies, deception, fraud, idolatry and all other wickedness, the assertion that the Roman Church has nothing to do with "lies, fraud and idol worship" is naieve at best.

So if a Baptist minister cheats on his wife and steals from his church does that in any way change or affect the doctrines held by the Baptist denomination?
The Church is made up of sinners....it is Christ who makes her Holy!

[/quote]Nice attempt to have it both ways, but it doesn't wash. Rodrigo Borgia cannot be simultaneously the Vicar of Christ and an antichrist.

 

[Fireinfolding]

I am now finding out more on why the Muslims reject the Apostle Paul and one Muslim even messaged me to say I should accept Islam as they also accept JESUS as a "Great Prophet". I also fault the Roman Church for putting so much emphasis on the "peter" of the NT.

Even some within CHrist-ianity reject Paul!!!!!

http://www.judaismvschristianity.com/paulthe.htm

.......There are a number of historical facts, quotations from Paul, and quotations from Yahshua recorded in the New Testament that leave us with some quite compelling evidence against his apostleship being recognized in heaven.....................




...............A couple verses latter Paul takes a cheap shot at Peter. Without Peter around to defend himself, Paul brags to the Galatians how he put Peter in his place before the entire church of Antioch.

"But when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. And the rest of the Jews played the hypocrite with him so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy. But when I saw that they were not straight forward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before them all, "if you being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews?" Galatians 2:11-14 NKJV​

Then Paul goes on to describe how hypocritical Peter was being for living a different gospel from the one that he (Paul) preached. It is interesting to note that earlier in the book (Galatians. 1:8,9) Paul commanded his followers to damn, (curse, or doom to destruction), anyone who preaches a different gospel than that which he had preached.
According to him then, that would include damning Peter, if not James and John also! It is obvious to the reader of the first two chapters of Galatians, that Paul is demanding that the Galatian church follow no one but him, not even the original apostles back in Jerusalem.

I dont get half the groups you mention Lamb. Paul was the one who ADRESSED the I AM OF Paul and Apollos deal, asking who were ANY OF THEM. I see what He wrote as being a safegaurd.

What was wrong with Paul given an account of that which concerned Peter if all dissasembled in him and if it could be helpful to the church?

2Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


Peter validates Paul