Question time. Jesus returns before or after 1000yrs

[champuru]

it doesnt really matter to me, my views are usually pretrib, but he'll return when he returns

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Where is the option for "None of the above"?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Hi. I have been reading the different viewpoints of different denomination, including the Orthdox, Roman church and mainstream Protestantism.
I have but one question. Does JESUS return Before or After the 1000yr period. I have looked at amillennialism and chiliasm both of which makes no Scriptural sense. Let the poll begin.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches in it's Catechism. But I am still trying to understand.


QUOTE:

The Church's ultimate trial


675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576

676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatalogical judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578

677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581

 

[JacktheCatholic]

From Catholic Answers this is what they state the Catholic position is...

QUOTE:

What’s the Catholic Position?


As far as the millennium goes, we tend to agree with Augustine and, derivatively, with the amillennialists. The Catholic position has thus historically been "amillennial" (as has been the majority Christian position in general, including that of the Protestant Reformers), though Catholics do not typically use this term. The Church has rejected the premillennial position, sometimes called "millenarianism" (see the Catechism of the Catholic Church 676). In the 1940s the Holy Office judged that premillennialism "cannot safely be taught," though the Church has not dogmatically defined this issue.

With respect to the rapture, Catholics certainly believe that the event of our gathering together to be with Christ will take place, though they do not generally use the word "rapture" to refer to this event (somewhat ironically, since the term "rapture" is derived from the text of the Latin Vulgate of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," [Latin: rapiemur]).

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I can see the amillennialist point of view and since my church has not defined this area and only rejected some of the theology out there I would say Amillennialism looks pretty good to me.




Amillennialism


The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups.

Amillennialists also believe in the coexistence of good and evil on earth until the end. The tension that exists on earth between the righteous and the wicked will be resolved only by Christ’s return at the end of time. The golden age of the millennium is instead the heavenly reign of Christ with the saints, in which the Church on earth participates to some degree, though not in the glorious way it will at the Second Coming.

Amillennialists point out that the thrones of the saints who reign with Christ during the millennium appear to be set in heaven (Rev. 20:4; cf. 4:4, 11:16) and that the text nowhere states that Christ is on earth during this reign with the saints.

They explain that, although the world will never be fully Christianized until the Second Coming, the millennium does have effects on earth in that Satan is bound in such a way that he cannot deceive the nations by hindering the preaching of the gospel (Rev. 20:3). They point out that Jesus spoke of the necessity of "binding the strong man" (Satan) in order to plunder his house by rescuing people from his grip (Matt. 12:29). When the disciples returned from a tour of preaching the gospel, rejoicing at how demons were subject to them, Jesus declared, "I saw Satan fall like lightning" (Luke 10:18). Thus for the gospel to move forward at all in the world, it is necessary for Satan to be bound in one sense, even if he may still be active in attacking individuals (1 Pet. 5:8).

The millennium is a golden age not when compared to the glories of the age to come, but in comparison to all prior ages of human history, in which the world was swallowed in pagan darkness. Today, a third of the human race is Christian and even more than that have repudiated pagan idols and embraced the worship of the God of Abraham.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is what the Catholic Church teaches in it's Catechism. But I am still trying to understand.

OK thanks. I guess I should have put in the option of "I don't know right now" or something to that effect.

Thanks for your input JTC.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

OK thanks. I guess I should have put in the option of "I don't know right now" or something to that effect.

Thanks for your input JTC.

LLJ what are your thoughts about Amillennialism?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

LLJ what are your thoughts about Amillennialism?

Truthfully? I believe it is a false teaching just as the Roman church and other denominations tell the futurists their view of the future rapture is false.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Truthfully? I believe it is a false teaching just as the Roman church and other denominations tell the futurists their view of the future rapture is false.

Are you saying you believe in Rapture?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Are you saying you believe in Rapture?

Nope, and neither do I believe in an a literal earthly reign of Jesus from Jerusalem for a 1000yrs.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Nope, and neither do I believe in an a literal earthly reign of Jesus from Jerusalem for a 1000yrs.

I really do not see your conflict with Catholic teachings then???

Catholic teachings has prooved that rapture is anti-biblical and you do not believe it anyway.

And the Catholic Church has not defined teachings on this Great Tribulation other than we are in it (as far as I know).

Do you believe the Great Tribulation has not started and so you cannot be a part of a church that believes it has?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I really do not see your conflict with Catholic teachings then???

Catholic teachings has prooved that rapture is anti-biblical and you do not believe it anyway.

And the Catholic Church has not defined teachings on this Great Tribulation other than we are in it (as far as I know).

Do you believe the Great Tribulation has not started and so you cannot be a part of a church that believes it has?

How can a catching away into the air to be with the Lord be "anti-Biblical"?

Here it is in black and white:

1Th 4:13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
1Th 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.



and here:

2Th 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.



And a myriad of other places both in old and new testaments...


What does the RCC do with those verses?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

How can a catching away into the air to be with the Lord be "anti-Biblical"?

Here it is in black and white:

1Th 4:13 Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
1Th 4:14 We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.
1Th 4:15 According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.



and here:

2Th 2:1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers,
2Th 2:2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come.



And a myriad of other places both in old and new testaments...


What does the RCC do with those verses?

The RCC (to the best of my knowledge) teaches that the saints on earth will rise to meet Jesus at the end of the Great Tribulation.

It does not teach much more than that.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The RCC (to the best of my knowledge) teaches that the saints on earth will rise to meet Jesus at the end of the Great Tribulation.

It does not teach much more than that.

I may be mistaken, but doesn't the great Tribulation end before the 1000yr period begins?

Matthew 24:21 for then shall be Tribulation, Great, such as was not from the beginning of world till now, no, nor may be becoming [Daniel 12]

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I may be mistaken, but doesn't the great Tribulation end before the 1000yr period begins?

Matthew 24:21 for then shall be Tribulation, Great, such as was not from the beginning of world till now, no, nor may be becoming [Daniel 12]

I do not think 1,000 is representative of years as a quantity. Also, Jesus is already king of all and so the devil has already lost and cannot reign again.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The RCC (to the best of my knowledge) teaches that the saints on earth will rise to meet Jesus at the end of the Great Tribulation.

It does not teach much more than that.

And what about all the verses that teach we are not appointed to suffer wrath, but to receive salvation?

 

[JacktheCatholic]

And what about all the verses that teach we are not appointed to suffer wrath, but to receive salvation?

Excuse me but I do not understand what you are asking exactly???

 

[jsimms615]

Hi. I have been reading the different viewpoints of different denomination, including the Orthdox, Roman church and mainstream Protestantism.
I have but one question. Does JESUS return Before or After the 1000yr period. I have looked at amillennialism and chiliasm both of which makes no Scriptural sense. Let the poll begin.

I said before, but I don't really care which. I just want to see him for myself.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Excuse me but I do not understand what you are asking exactly???

Oh..ok..umm...

The time that includes the beast, the two witnesses, judgments and wrath are just that...judgment and wrath.

1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.



Hbr 9:28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.


1Pe 1:5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


Rom 5:9Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!

1Th 1:10and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

Luk 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”


Then, here are a multitide seen in heaven, standing before the throne and the Lamb singing about salvation PRIOR to judgment and wrath:

Rev 7:10And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I said before, but I don't really care which. I just want to see him for myself.

So would the Jews I would think.

Reve 19:11 And I perceived the heaven having be opened and Lo! A horse, white and the One sitting on it/him being called Faithful-one and True-one and in justice He is judging and is battling.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=42771526#post42771526

Chapter 20 Verse 4-5 Deals with Christ's Established Church that refussed to follow the beast. This was all done when Rome converted to Christianity and the 1000 years began.