If you're engaged, is it still fornicating?

[pinkone]

Hi,
This question is directed at christian couples as this is kind of a christian values kinda question...
I just got engaged on Christmas and me and my girlfriends (both saved and unsaved) have been having a debate. The question is: If me and my fiance have sex before our wedding, is it considered fornicating? One side says yes - since there is no legal document acknowledging our union, it's not acknowledged by God. The other side says no - since we've acknowledged each other as husband and wife, God does as well and we don't need to wait for a piece of paper.
I'm also asking from a personal standpoint. Does anyone regret sleeping with their SO before marriage? Does anyone say it didn't make a difference (in the relationship and sex)? Now that you're married, is there anything you would've done differently in this area?
I didn't want to indicate which side I'm on because I don't want it to affect your answers, but I will say that my fiance and I are about pleasing Him first, before ourselves. (I know that gives it away, but oh well )
Thanks for your insight
Have a Happy New Year!

 

[Wandering Cat Lady]

It is definitely fornicating...

1 Cor. 7 says this:


1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1Co 7:8 I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I.
1Co 7:9 But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.

 

[AMOG]

In my opinion....

(Read that first line again, then go on)

the question is not wheter the marrage is legal in the state's eyes (when you get that piece of paper). But when is it legal in Gods eyes.

I know of couples, that for various reasons, the county has rejected their marriage certificate. In one case, once the couple was back from their Honeymoon, they called up the preacher, drove across the county line, pulled the car over, he said the required words, they said I do (took less then a minute) and they got all legal with the state. (he also said "what God has joined together, let no county clerk put asunder) (in case you don't know, there is a wide range of rules in some states that can change on a county to county or parish to parish basis. This particular preacher was new to the area and didn't know all the peculiarities of all the surrounding counties.)

I do not think this means they were not married in Gods eyes and fornicating on their honeymoon, just because the particular county where they got their license did not recognize marriages performed in another county.

So the real question is when does God consider the marriage to begin? A second question would be, when do those in your circle of influence think it begins? (remember that part about not causing weaker brothers to stumble because of our actions)

That is my opinion on what the Bible says about it.

HOWEVER. As is often the case, that is not exactly what I did.

In the case of my first marriage, though we were neither one virgins, we decided to wait. Looking back, I cannot say that the ONLY reason I made that mistake was that I was overcome by lust and desire, but it was a huge contributing factor. I feel that had we been having sex, I would have been more objective about the rest of the situation and not made that mistake.

In the case of my second marriage, we started having sex early on in the dating relationship. At this point, the relationship is still growing stronger as time goes on. I have a wonderful marriage and friendship relationship with my wife. I know at this time in my previous marriage, things were already going way down hill.

 

[rosiecotton]

In my opinion....

(Read that first line again, then go on)

the question is not wheter the marrage is legal in the state's eyes (when you get that piece of paper). But when is it legal in Gods eyes.

I know of couples, that for various reasons, the county has rejected their marriage certificate. In one case, once the couple was back from their Honeymoon, they called up the preacher, drove across the county line, pulled the car over, he said the required words, they said I do (took less then a minute) and they got all legal with the state. (he also said "what God has joined together, let no county clerk put asunder) (in case you don't know, there is a wide range of rules in some states that can change on a county to county or parish to parish basis. This particular preacher was new to the area and didn't know all the peculiarities of all the surrounding counties.)

I do not think this means they were not married in Gods eyes and fornicating on their honeymoon, just because the particular county where they got their license did not recognize marriages performed in another county.

So the real question is when does God consider the marriage to begin? A second question would be, when do those in your circle of influence think it begins? (remember that part about not causing weaker brothers to stumble because of our actions)

That is my opinion on what the Bible says about it.

HOWEVER. As is often the case, that is not exactly what I did.

In the case of my first marriage, though we were neither one virgins, we decided to wait. Looking back, I cannot say that the ONLY reason I made that mistake was that I was overcome by lust and desire, but it was a huge contributing factor. I feel that had we been having sex, I would have been more objective about the rest of the situation and not made that mistake.

In the case of my second marriage, we started having sex early on in the dating relationship. At this point, the relationship is still growing stronger as time goes on. I have a wonderful marriage and friendship relationship with my wife. I know at this time in my previous marriage, things were already going way down hill.

I think this has some good points. I think the big question is, when are we married, in God's eyes?
I know a couple who were getting married for the second time (they had gotten divorced, then reconciled). Well, my pastor told me that at the wedding they apparently didn't have their marriage license, so it wasn't signed. So in his eyes, he felt they were living in sin those days before signing that license!! Even though they had gone through the ceremony.
I mentioned this to my husband and we signed our license after our wedding. So does that mean we weren't married till we signed it? But the preacher said "I now pronounce you husband and wife"...wouldn't we be married then? So, even if we hadn't signed our license for a few days for some reason, I believe we were still married.
Someone told me about a situation with a couple that had filed for divorce, but it hadn't gone to court yet. I guess one of them had already started dating someone else. She said a pastor had told her that the marriage vows were already broken, so in God's eyes they were already divorced....in effect saying it was ok for that person to start dating, even though the divorce wasn't final. But I think if you are going to say that, then you can say a couple is married even before the wedding is final.
I didn't actually 'sleep' with my hubby before we were married, but we did about everything else short of intercourse. I now wish we hadn't. Unfortunately, I had done things with previous boyfriends, too. If I could go back and I would not do any of those things. I just would have liked to have been totally pure the day of our wedding.

 

[dayknee]

Unfortunately it is fornication..Sex isnt not allowed out of the bonds of marriage..
Well..not allowed..even though we have a Father who forgives us christians if we do..we still shouldnt. It isnt something I ever worried too much about..
I did have sex with my husband before we married..and unfortunatly many others before him..I wished I had waited..and I wished I had not done the things I did when I was young..I don't like the idea of giving it for free without being married..and I wouldnt want that for mydaughter..who by the way..will be getting her purity ring..( something SHE wanted) for her 16th birthday..
I hate the pressure that the ring might represent for her..but I am glad she is up to the challenge..and I hope she continues to keep herself until marriage..for the ONE man she will be with forever...Lord willing..

 

[purplecloth]

i just want to throw this into the pot... just for interest...

2.5 yrs ago... dh and i applied to emigrate to NZ...

we had to prove that we lived together to try and get me my visa, cos DH was being sponsored by his company... so for me to get in it was as his 'partner'

we showed our 'marriage certificate'

they didnt want that... they said that was not proof that we lived together... they wanted a joint account statement or something that showed we had the same address... even different utility bills either in joint names or even the gas bill in my name and the electric bill in his name was good enough...

but that was better proof to them than our MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE....

that has always made me wonder 'just how important is this 'bit of paper' anyway'

and i always think of the christmas story where is says that mary was promised in marriage to mary... but to get out of the forth coming marriage joseph had to get a divorce...

so part of me thinks it depends how serious your engagement is... and its about the heart...

but im not 100% decided... DH and i had sex on the first night we met... and its not effected our marriage or our sex life...

thats not me saying its a great idea to do it, not at all... but im just pointing out that the idea that if you have sex before you get married you are doomed to a miserable sex life cos GOD is going to punish you sexually is false...

i think its probably best to wait... but.... yea... dont know...

 

[invisiblebabe]

Engagement is not marriage!! Engagement, by definition, is a time you have decided together that you WILL get married, and it is a time to PLAN for marriage. You can't plan for or decide to do something that's already happened.

Oh, and marriage is a covenant with inherently social and spiritual implications. It is impossible to marry without the community's acknowledgement (only exception would be if you were stranded on a desert island with no people and no hope of rescue... but we know that isn't the case implied in the OP).

 

[Spy]

Hi,
This question is directed at christian couples as this is kind of a christian values kinda question...
I just got engaged on Christmas and me and my girlfriends (both saved and unsaved) have been having a debate. The question is: If me and my fiance have sex before our wedding, is it considered fornicating? One side says yes - since there is no legal document acknowledging our union, it's not acknowledged by God. The other side says no - since we've acknowledged each other as husband and wife, God does as well and we don't need to wait for a piece of paper.
I'm also asking from a personal standpoint. Does anyone regret sleeping with their SO before marriage? Does anyone say it didn't make a difference (in the relationship and sex)? Now that you're married, is there anything you would've done differently in this area?
I didn't want to indicate which side I'm on because I don't want it to affect your answers, but I will say that my fiance and I are about pleasing Him first, before ourselves. (I know that gives it away, but oh well )
Thanks for your insight
Have a Happy New Year!

yes it is still fornicating. even engaged poeple cn split up before teh wedding.

 

[cakes&buttercream]

yes it is still fornicating. even engaged poeple cn split up before teh wedding.

And in modern days- a couple can easily split after the wedding too.

I believe in bible times that waiting for marriage was the ideal situation. But times are different and things have changed.
I believe if you want to wait for marriage, wonderful, if not... thats fine too.
I know personally I could never stay married to someone that I wasn't sexually compatible with ... no matter how much love I had for them. Lets face it most divorces are over sexual matters and finances.
Anyway I commend you for wanting to please the Lord.
I believe an engaged couple is married in the eyes of God.

 

[Canuckmom]

If me and my fiance have sex before our wedding, is it considered fornicating

Yes, it is and it is sin.

 

[DanC922]

Why try so hard to get as close to sin as possible? 1 Corinthians 6:18 says to "FLEE from sexual immorality." It doesn't say to get as close to and arguably within sexual immorality. You only have a little while until sex is unquestionably ok and good. If you absolutely can't wait, just go get married now.

Look at the timeline of your life. You're probably going to live to 80+ years old. You're 22 years old now. Assuming you're like most people, your engagement will be 6-12 months. Why give up 60-70 years of marriage entered pure before God for a measly 6-12 months of sex?

 

[HOPEOF9]

Don't have sex before marriage. It is fornication.
There's an old saying that doesn't have anything to do with the bible, it says: "Sex before marriage makes a good relationship go bad, and a bad relationship last longer."
So far, speaking from experience, and in the people we've encountered, this has proven true.

My husband and I waited until we were married. We do not regret it. In fact, I am very proud of the fact that he didn't pressure me into anything. Both of our desires were to please God.
Wait, you won't regret it.

Blessings and happy new year!

 

[cakes&buttercream]

Yes, it is and it is sin.

As someone else said, engagement is not marriage. A marriage happens when a man and woman make a covenant with each other before God and witnesses. Although the state for good reasons has an interest in it, it is not the piece of paper that makes the marriage, but the covenant between God and man. If that piece of paper becomes all important than what happens when the state says homos can get married. Is that a real marriage then. I think not!!

The reason Joseph would have to divorce Mary if he wanted to break the engagement, was because in the Jewish culture of that time betrothal was legally binding. In our times engagement is not legally binding.

thecakediva said:
I believe if you want to wait for marriage, wonderful, if not... thats fine too.

Says who? God said it was sin, and He doesn't change. His law is still the same no matter how much society and it's values may change.

that isn't entirely true.

Take for example:

Do we still offer up sacrifices to God, as they did in biblical times-no.
So yes, things HAVE changed.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

I think that you need to decide for yourself what you think is right rather than looking for the right answer. This is a christian forum.... you are going to run across some people that are very religous, legalistic... and who are very concerned about acceptance and appearance, then you are going to find those that are much more liberal..... I don't think you are going to find peace of mind by putting a question like this out there, though I can respect your interest in other's thoughts... and maybe to see if anyone agrees with you. Bottom line is you have to decide what you feel comfortable with... other's opinions are just that, "another's opinion". Hope that helps.

HB

 

[hisbloodformysins]

It's only sin if you have personal conviction not to, and you do it anyways. There is a difference between fear and personal conviction.... there's a difference between head knowledge and personal conviction. What's important is what you feel comfortable with.

HB

 

[DanC922]

I think that you need to decide for yourself what you think is right rather than looking for the right answer. This is a christian forum.... you are going to run across some people that are very religous, legalistic... and who are very concerned about acceptance and appearance, then you are going to find those that are much more liberal..... I don't think you are going to find peace of mind by putting a question like this out there, though I can respect your interest in other's thoughts... and maybe to see if anyone agrees with you. Bottom line is you have to decide what you feel comfortable with... other's opinions are just that, "another's opinion". Hope that helps.

HB

Bottom line is God says fornication is sin. His 'opinion' isn't just "another opinion".

It's only sin if you have personal conviction not to, and you do it anyways. There is a difference between fear and personal conviction.... there's a difference between head knowledge and personal conviction. What's important is what you feel comfortable with.

HB

What's important is what God says. We're always going to be comfortable with sin because of our sinful flesh. That's why God gave us an objective external guideline called the Bible to tell us what's true.

 

[Leanna]

I don't think engaged couples should have sex because only married couples should have sex, and engaged couples could break up just as easily as "committed" dating couples.

 

[HuntingMan]

Hi,
This question is directed at christian couples as this is kind of a christian values kinda question...
I just got engaged on Christmas and me and my girlfriends (both saved and unsaved) have been having a debate. The question is: If me and my fiance have sex before our wedding, is it considered fornicating? One side says yes - since there is no legal document acknowledging our union, it's not acknowledged by God. The other side says no - since we've acknowledged each other as husband and wife, God does as well and we don't need to wait for a piece of paper.
I'm also asking from a personal standpoint. Does anyone regret sleeping with their SO before marriage? Does anyone say it didn't make a difference (in the relationship and sex)? Now that you're married, is there anything you would've done differently in this area?
I didn't want to indicate which side I'm on because I don't want it to affect your answers, but I will say that my fiance and I are about pleasing Him first, before ourselves. (I know that gives it away, but oh well )
Thanks for your insight
Have a Happy New Year!

Well, firstly, a 'legal document' before a godless ceasar doesnt make or break a marriage.
A marriage license, if you study out the purposes for it, is basically mainly for protections, for different entities, and partially for the couple themselves.

Lack of ceasars licensing doesnt nullify a covenant made to another person with God Himself as witness.

That said tho, if you are have a date set for your marriage and you do not have a MARRIAGE COVENANT yet made to one another before God who IS witness to these sorts of things, yes, it would be fornication because in our customs 'engagement' is not a binding marriage in any way, shape or form.

Not that the custom takes precedence, but we all know that when we are merely "engaged" it is not binding either to the world or even in our own hearts and minds. Since you can still walk away from this, no you arent married and yes, it would be fornication to have sex.

Again, this has nothing to do with godless ceasers licensing but is about the fact that there is not yet a COVENANT of marriage in place that God Himself is witness to.

It is also preferable that there are human witnesses as well when it is possible so that they can testify to the fact that a marriage did take place. Of course, this again is for 'protections' of the married persons and possibly even family members.

 

[HuntingMan]

they didnt want that... they said that was not proof that we lived together... they wanted a joint account statement or something that showed we had the same address... even different utility bills either in joint names or even the gas bill in my name and the electric bill in his name was good enough...

but that was better proof to them than our MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE....

I can believe it.
Laura and I had a completely different sort of scenario, but with something we had to do a few years back it was things like a lease and bills that had both our names on them that had to be shown to prove we were living in the same house.
A marriage license in this particular case wouldnt have helped at all because it doesnt actually prove that she was living WITH me in the same household and sharing in the costs.

 

[dayknee]

It's only sin if you have personal conviction not to, and you do it anyways. There is a difference between fear and personal conviction.... there's a difference between head knowledge and personal conviction. What's important is what you feel comfortable with.

HB

I have to disagree with this..
"its only sin if you have personal conviction not to"

I see the point you are trying to make..but what God says is a sin, is a sin...his word doesnt say that if you feel personally convicted by something THEN its a sin.
If thats the case, then the murderer can just say that he was not personally convicted that murdering is a sin..which we know it is..What would stop a spouse saying that they didnt feel personally convicted by the adultery they commited so therefore it wasnt a sin?

What Gods word says about how we live is what we should be always striving to do..anything that we do that is seperate from Gods word is sinning. Anything that we do that God commands us NOT to do is sin.