Darwinism = Eugenics And Racism

[Cassandra]

By atheists, yes. By non-atheists... well, just tell nearly any Christian that you're an atheist, and they interpret that as "You hate Jesus and God." The Christian God, mind you.

It is, I know, very difficult to get across what atheism means to you when someone else has an ingrained concept of what it means to them.

It isn't about what it means to one person or the other. It isn't about connotative definitions.

Atheism is lack of belief in god/s. Plain and simple. No other requirements.

 

[The Bellman]

Where does belief in forces/entities beyond the understanding of science other than god/s (aka the supernatural) fit into all this?

Nowhere. It's irrelevant to your atheism/theism. I would think most atheists don't believe in the supernatural, but I've met some who do - some who believe in ghosts, a couple who believe in an afterlife, and quite a few who believe in paranormal powers (such as telekenisis).

And I think it's possible not to have an opinion either way. Some people just haven't had any sort of experience that leads them to take one stance or the other. Or maybe they just don't care.

If you don't have an opinion either way, you're an atheist.

Again - if you believe, you're a theist. Everyone else is an atheist. That's what the word means - without theism.

 

[Cassandra]

Nowhere. It's irrelevant to your atheism/theism. I would think most atheists don't believe in the supernatural, but I've met some who do - some who believe in ghosts, a couple who believe in an afterlife, and quite a few who believe in paranormal powers (such as telekenisis).


If you don't have an opinion either way, you're an atheist.

Again - if you believe, you're a theist. Everyone else is an atheist. That's what the word means - without theism.

I know. I'm just saying it's possible to not be FIRMLY decided. I think some people think that if you say you're a theist (or an atheist) you have to nail your foot to that side of the fence. And some people do.

 

[The Bellman]

I know. I'm just saying it's possible to not be FIRMLY decided. I think some people think that if you say you're a theist (or an atheist) you have to nail your foot to that side of the fence. And some people do.

Lots of people aren't firmly decided. It's really irrelevant. All that is relevant is what you believe - not what you've decided is the TRUTH, or what you claim to 'know', or what you've decided to stick with forever. Just what you believe.

 

[Chalnoth]

Umm...sorry, but atheism means lack of belief in any god/gods. What Christians were once branded as is irrelevant; what is relevant is how the word is used today. And today it's used to mean lack of belief in any god or gods.

And the word "Christian" doesn't convey "fundamentalist creationist bible-pounding gay-basher" - at least, not to me or to anyone I know.

Currently, yes. But in the past atheism was used as a blanket condemnation of any persons who did not believe in the religion of the accusers.

 

[NailsII]

It isn't about what it means to one person or the other. It isn't about connotative definitions.

Atheism is lack of belief in god/s. Plain and simple. No other requirements.

So why then are atheists labelled as cold-hearted and unloving creatures, evil from the head downwards?

 

[DrkSdBls]

So you don't know if there are any gods that actually exist. But do you think/believe/opine/assume that any gods do exist?

You can think something without knowing for sure. For instance, I don't know whether my brother is on a plane right now. I think that he is, since he is scheduled to arrive here in a couple of hours. However, I don't know for sure; he may have missed his flight, or he may have cancelled his visit. But I still think he's on a plane right now.

So, granted you don't know for sure, do you think any gods exist?

Define "God".

 

[Cassandra]

So why then are atheists labelled as cold-hearted and unloving creatures, evil from the head downwards?

Because people can be stupid and judgemental.

 

[Skaloop]

Define "God".

Well, since you used the capital G, how about the Judeo-Christian God, as described in their religious texts.

 

[DrkSdBls]

No, it's not complicated at all. If you believe that a god exists, you're a theist. If you don't, you're an atheist. It's as simple as that.

And I'm telling you, it has nothing to do with belief in God; At least, not in the useage which you seem to be obsessed with.

Note also that atheism isn't a stance; it's a lack of a stance. You seem to think atheism is a conclusion, or something held to be true; it's not. It's merely the lack of belief in a god or gods.

That may be Technically true but those who claim to be Atheist also take an Atheisitic Stance.

No, you said "knows", in inverted commas, which indicates that you didn't actually mean 'knows' (or you would have left out the inverted commas). I had to guess what you actually meant. But judging by the following paragraph of yours, you are of the opinion that a god exists.

I am not of the Opinion that any God by your Definition exists.

I can not call Myself Theist because I do not believe in any God which can not be known.

I can not Call myself Atheist because I "believe" that it's Possible for a God (within a certain Definition) to exist. I do not hold any Belief that that God exists because I do not Know of that God except from what I can reasonably conclude.

To understand god, you would have to hold that he exists; that makes you a theist. And yes, if you hold that he exists, you believe in him.

Cart before the Horse.

You seem rather keen to make this more complex than it is. I'm sorry, but it's extremely simple. If you beleive (hold to be true, have the opinion, whatever synonym you want to use) that a god or gods exist, you're a theist. If you don't, you're an atheist. It's as simple as that. Everybody is either an atheist or a theist; you're no exception.

I'm sorry but you don't get to tell me what I am. You may have over simplified your "Beliefs" but that does not work for me.

 

[DrkSdBls]

Well, since you used the capital G, how about the Judeo-Christian God, as described in their religious texts.

Aye, that's the Defination that I have the most problem with. There are not enough words in the English Langauge to explain why.

But No, I can never "Believe" in it. Even if he appeared before me and shown me his power, I would still never believe in him. I would Know he exists, but I could never believe in him.

By the Way, the capital G doesn't mean a whole Lot when I type it as such.

 

[DrkSdBls]

Currently, yes. But in the past atheism was used as a blanket condemnation of any persons who did not believe in the religion of the accusers.

Yeah but nobody cares how a Word has previously been used, only how it applies to them today.

 

[Skaloop]

But No, I can never "Believe" in it. Even if he appeared before me and shown me his power, I would still never believe in him. I would Know he exists, but I could never believe in him.

Now your conflating two different meanings of "believe." There's a difference between believing in something's existence and believing in something's goodness or worthiness of worship. Atheism deals with the former.

By the Way, the capital G doesn't mean a whole Lot when I type it as such.

Then you probably shouldn't type it as such. Capitalization carries meaning. "I love Rose" means something different than "I love rose."

 

[DrkSdBls]

Now your conflating two different meanings of "believe." There's a difference between believing in something's existence and believing in something's goodness or worthiness of worship. Atheism deals with the former.

No, I didn't Conflate them. It used it like that on Purpose.

Then you probably shouldn't type it as such. Capitalization carries meaning. "I love Rose" means something different than "I love rose."

Oh, ! Leave my Capitalizations alone.

 

[Skaloop]

No, I didn't Conflate them. It used it like that on Purpose.

Why would you deliberately obfuscate your meaning by using homographs interchangeably? It's not very conducive to meaningful conversation. Especially when the context doesn't lend itself to one of your meanings.

 

[DrkSdBls]

Why would you deliberately obfuscate your meaning by using homographs interchangeably? It's not very conducive to meaningful conversation. Especially when the context doesn't lend itself to one of your meanings.

Because it makes sense in my own mind and I forget that other people do not in think in the same way as others.

Which, in a roundabout way, is my entire point. I do not, and can not, understand the concept of god from another's perspective. It just does not make sense to me.

That is why I ignore anything, anyone tells me about anything unless I can process it in my own mind and Common Definitions mean little to me.

The English Langauge is so..... Inadequate to convey meaning and understanding in the way that it should be.

 

[Skaloop]

The English Langauge is so..... Inadequate to convey meaning and understanding in the way that it should be.

I find that to be more an issue of the user rather than the tool.

 

[The Bellman]

And I'm telling you, it has nothing to do with belief in God; At least, not in the useage which you seem to be obsessed with.

Atheism and theism have everything to do with belief in gods; in fact, that's the only thing with which they have anything to do.

I am not of the Opinion that any God by your Definition exists.

Wonderful. Then you're an atheist. Unless you hold that a god by some other definition exists, in which case you're a theist.

I can not call Myself Theist because I do not believe in any God which can not be known.

That doesn't even make self.

I can not Call myself Atheist because I "believe" that it's Possible for a God (within a certain Definition) to exist.

Sorry, but that belief does not prevent one from being an atheist.

I do not hold any Belief that that God exists because I do not Know of that God except from what I can reasonably conclude.

Then you're an atheist.

I'm sorry but you don't get to tell me what I am.

Sorry, but I do. Knowledge of the English language allows me to do so.

You may have over simplified your "Beliefs" but that does not work for me.

It's not a question of over-simplification, it's a question of you trying to make something simple complex.

But No, I can never "Believe" in it. Even if he appeared before me and shown me his power, I would still never believe in him. I would Know he exists, but I could never believe in him.

If you know he exists, you believe in his existence. That is what atheism and theism is about - belief in existence.

 

[Chalnoth]

Yeah but nobody cares how a Word has previously been used, only how it applies to them today.

Of course. But The Bellman was talking about how the term was once used, so I felt compelled to try to correct him.

And, by the way, he's right about how the term is used currently by atheists.

 

[The Bellman]

Of course. But The Bellman was talking about how the term was once used, so I felt compelled to try to correct him.

But you didn't correct me, because I said nothing wrong.