Foru.ms - a new beginning and a fresh start (2)

[psalms 91]

You know, the fact is on the other sites, the site owners & moderators are guarding the integrity of God's word and making sure it's staying where it should stay - not bringing in a bunch of Christians that all believe whatever they want and slap the name "Christian" to it.

The CARM forum actually removed any Universalism debates altogether. The owners refused to allow a doctrine to be preached that led people to the error of thinking that they didn't need salvation, and that we could live any way we wanted.
So that doctrine is forbidden there.

I SAY, PRAISE GOD for ending confusion and error. CF at least moved Universalism debating to a specific area and made it a violation to debate it outside the area.
NOW IT'S WIDE OPEN.

(I think the Creed would of stopped that too)

Amen and isnt it a shame that so many will accept that as ok

 

[JimfromOhio]

[/SIZE][/FONT]

(dont forget repent and believe)

and then what?

 

[JimfromOhio]

That is the bibliical definition of "territorial" ?

 

[psalms 91]

CaDan answer me one question plewase? Just saw this and never thought of it before as I guess I still see Erwin as having a vision and not as a busnessman, is he getting this site ready to sell and making it more marketable to the world?

What happened to CaDan, he left. Will post this again when he is on.

 

[The Bellman]

Define what you consider arbitrary!
When so many erase the Bible's standards... those who hold to those aren't using arbitrary standards.
Those who are ignoring the bible ARE - placing opinion and self will over scripture.

I'll take God's standards written out for me - thank you.
Unless you're my judge and I give an account to you for my life?

'Arbitrary' is what people - fallible, error-prone human beings - decide. And that's the problem. By nature, none of us can use 'the Bible's standards' - we can only use our interpretation of the Bible's standards. And that interpretation can be wrong. When it is decided, for example, that to be labelled a Christian one must believe 'X', based on what the Bible says, then one is really basing it on one's (fallible, error-prone) interpretation of what the Bible says, and someone else's interpretation may disagree with yours. Neither of you are ignoring the Bible; you are both following its standards to the best of your ability.

See the problem?

 

[Nadiine]

You don't personally need to endorse anything.
But the fact is there are people who identify themselves as Christians that believe differently then others who also identify themselves as Christians.

That is life my friend.

Yep it is... and by the way, the majority of people ages ago all believed the earth was FLAT too and that objects were holding up the earth (like an elephant or turtle)... It didn't make them all right no matter how many thought it was true.

The BIBLE holds the definition of a Christian, becuz it is the original written standard of those who teach of the God of Israel and followed the law - and who walked with Christ.

 

[Nadiine]

'Arbitrary' is what people - fallible, error-prone human beings - decide. And that's the problem. By nature, none of us can use 'the Bible's standards' - we can only use our interpretation of the Bible's standards. And that interpretation can be wrong. When it is decided, for example, that to be labelled a Christian one must believe 'X', based on what the Bible says, then one is really basing it on one's (fallible, error-prone) interpretation of what the Bible says, and someone else's interpretation may disagree with yours. Neither of you are ignoring the Bible; you are both following its standards to the best of your ability.

See the problem?

I see YOUR problem, yes... you reject that God exists, THEREFORE YOU DENY THAT ANYONE CAN BE SPIRITUALLY REACHED/INTERNALLY by that God.

Well, millions of us are living proof that our God DOES internally call us to Himself. Lives change, miracles happen.
Those who refuse to believe and refuse Faith, will not see or understand it (NOR WANT TO for that matter).
The bible explains how this works and I"m sure you've read it.

You WON"T understand it - just like I didn't before I accepted Christ. I was just as much a liberal as these folks here were. I belonged to several animal rights groups, Greenpeace & the Sierra Club.
I was very liberal!

So I know how both sides work and why they do. All I can say is, unless one submits to God and seeks with a true heart (no bias), they won't SEE God.
His method is Faith, so it takes you responding to His call, and accepting what you DO see as evidence.
(nature/creation). Romans 1:18-32

 

[CaDan]

CaDan answer me one question plewase? Just saw this and never thought of it before as I guess I still see Erwin as having a vision and not as a busnessman, is he getting this site ready to sell and making it more marketable to the world?

As far as I know, no. But Erwin has also never been very good about telling people what he intends to do in the future.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

6) CCF Total Member Count 724 so in all this hub bub only 362 Signed up ?? hardly a major defection of CFs member count of over 200,000 (In fact that's less than 0.2%)

Hmm. To be fair, of the 200,000 members, it's come to light that those are massively inflated numbers. Actual, active members can't be more than about 3,000. But I know there are actual stats floating around somewhere.

And CCF isn't the only other forum. People have left and drifted towards one of the other 6 or 7 options.

 

[joebudda]

Yep it is... and by the way, the majority of people ages ago all believed the earth was FLAT too and that objects were holding up the earth (like an elephant or turtle)... It didn't make them all right no matter how many thought it was true.

The BIBLE holds the definition of a Christian, becuz it is the original written standard of those who teach of the God of Israel and followed the law - and who walked with Christ.

Correction,
you believe this definition makes you a Christian. Others apparently read it differently then you do.

Should I start commenting on flat earths and such now acting as if it makes some kind of point?

 

[CaDan]

I see YOUR problem, yes... you reject that God exists, THEREFORE YOU DENY THAT ANYONE CAN BE SPIRITUALLY REACHED/INTERNALLY by that God.

Well, millions of us are living proof that our God DOES internally call us to Himself. Lives change, miracles happen.
Those who refuse to believe and refuse Faith, will not see or understand it (NOR WANT TO for that matter).
The bible explains how this works and I"m sure you've read it.

You WON"T understand it - just like I didn't before I accepted Christ. I was just as much a liberal as these folks here were. I belonged to several animal rights groups, Greenpeace & the Sierra Club.
I was very liberal!

So I know how both sides work and why they do. All I can say is, unless one submits to God and seeks with a true heart (no bias), they won't SEE God.
His method is Faith, so it takes you responding to His call, and accepting what you DO see as evidence.
(nature/creation). Romans 1:18-32

I fail to see what this has to do with the name of a website. Does the Holy Spirit depart you if you post at, say, Slashdot?

 

[psalms 91]

As far as I know, no. But Erwin has also never been very good about telling people what he intends to do in the future.

Thank you for an answer and I understand that Erwin doesnt tell what is going on as evidenced by what has just happened but it sure makes the most sense of anything I have heard so far.

 

[BigToe]

The difference I see? Instead of there being a huge banner above us saying we're a Christian site, now it is up to us to act like it. There have been problems here at various times so why can't we overcome this together too? No one is saying we have to hide our faith and cover up our crosses. Instead we have to make sure we live our faith and live with our crosses.

 

[D'Ann]

The question is whether the Be a Christian link will be declared un-WIKI and be replaced with THIS.

Wow... I hope not and I don't think so.

Fixed.
http://foru.ms/faq.php?faq=rule_1#faq_rule_1_3

They had an extra http in it

Actually, I didn't think those rules were bad. Then maybe my mind is not working too well at the moment.

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this whole situation. Not to mention a whole lot of praying. I was intially hurt, angry, and even confused about the changes here at the foru.ms. I still want to call it CF. But it is not CF anymore, and there is a new vision. I don't know how this will work out. Erwin may find that it falls flat on it's face. But as I was praying, one thing kept tugging at my heart. Preach the gospel to all creatures. Over and over that kept running through my mind. And I thought maybe this isn't a such bad vision. I know many here would like to keep this as a strictly christian site. well just as sinners most likely will not walk into a church, they will not walk into a christian site. We have to go to them and meet them where they are. There is a "GO" in preach the gospel. We tend to want to run our little clicks here and be around like minded people, but we forget amongst all the debate to do what God has called us to do. He didn't say go debate with your brethren. Maybe we should give this new vision of Erwin's a chance. I know, and I agree the way Erwin has gone about it is wrong and it seems like there is broken promises everywhere. But if God can use a donkey to speak, He can use this new vision to fulfill His will. And His will is that all men might be saved.

Many people are leaving because the name has changed or thinking about leaving. Heck, I have even thought about it. But because of the argument of some I have made up my mind to stay and see this through. Because the only way we can make a difference is to stay and fight th4e good fight. NOT ERWINS FIGHT, NOT FOR ERWIN'S VISION!!!! BUT RATHER, FOR GOD'S.

GO!!! PREACH THE GOSPEL TO ALL CREATURES!!! That is what I am going to do. I am through with the arguing, moaning, and complaining, and I am going to follow the cloud in the new direction it is leading. We all know we live in the end times and there is a job to do. Maybe we should get to doing it so that great revival can come to pass.

steps away from the soap box and goes to the misson threads......God Bless ALL!!!

I appreciate your zeal and yearning for Christ and peace. The thing is this, it's not the name, it's all of the package since 7/7/7.

It's good to have outreach for ALL. Non-Christians and Christians. It's good to always GO and preach the gospel where ever the Holy Spirit leads us. But we need some kind of foundation that we can build on to give stablization to the those who Go and spread the gospel as well as to those who do come to Christ. And yes, Christ is the spiritual foundation... of salvation, but we also need a strong foundation here in which to build on as well.

We need a strong voice and leadership with strong Christian faith statements. Because once someone comes to Christ, they need to continue to learn and grow in the faith and is this new site going to be able to provide that in how it is set up now? Honestly, I don't know.

I believe Erwin is a good person with a good and kind heart who is sincere in trying to figure out what the right and best thing is for him to do. Instead of us all debating.. (including me and I've been worse than most)... I think it's time to take a step back and pray and re evaluate the situation.

I'm still not happy with the name change and I am most certainly very unhappy with the 7/7/7 changes and I really really really miss the Nicene Creed as a basic foundation to help us all have a concept as to what Chrsitianity believes in. If it could be done in a way that wouldn't exclude or alienate others, that would be nice.

I'm starting to wonder if some people want a site like this --> Christ Only

Hey... that site was just formed today. I can't help but wonder if you started that site?

Har har.

What we want is our old CF back.

That is what I want, but I don't think we are going to get it. Maybe it would be nice to have a combination of the old CF mixed in with some of the nice things about this new site.

CaDan answer me one question please? Just saw this and never thought of it before as I guess I still see Erwin as having a vision and not as a businessman, is he getting this site ready to sell and making it more marketable to the world?

Erwin stated in one of his posts recently that he does not plan to sell this site. If he wanted to sell it, it would of been worth a lot more as CF and with the old set up. And honestly, if he wanted to sell it... I know of a few people that would buy it... namely, my hubby and me and I know about a few others who would consider it. But Erwin doesn't want to sell it. (and I don't think hubby and I could afford to buy it anyway).

caDan


If you will look in the subforum section of the non-nicene forum in theology, youll see that UU's now have a hapopy home here. They are being passed off as 'christian' when pre 777 this never could have happened. We arent even supposed to fellowship here under these circumstances nor are we to welcome it according to 2nd john. Erwin has created new things here which now embraces these heresies as christian doctrine

I noticed that and I think it must be an over sight. Perhaps in time, this will be rectified.

You don't personally need to endorse anything.
But the fact is there are people who identify themselves as Christians that believe differently then others who also identify themselves as Christians.

That is life my friend.

But according to the Word of God... the only way to have eternal life is to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord. We must believe in His diety and the Trinity, which a few of faiths now listed in the CO forums don't believe in.

So... just because some believe that they are Christians, doesn't actually mean, that they are. But, that doesn't mean that we should be unkind or hurtful or disrespectful to anyone either... Christian or not. How can Christ's love and goodness shine from us if we are full of anger and hate and negative criticism. Yes, preach the Gospel of Christ, but do so with compassion and mercy and love with the Truth.

Because honestly, when people approach me and tell me that my faith is wrong and then they criticize my faith... I immediately tune them out and think that the person is a jerk.

Part of sharing the Gospel is communicating and if we don't communicate with respect, kindness... love and mercy and compassion sincerely from our heart... then our words are nothing but loud annoying noise. So there has to be a balance. All things in moderation.

I prefer that people preach by their love... by their actions, by how they treat others.

 

[Stormy]

Do you have proof of that in any official document? I have copies of most versions of the CF Rules since the beginning of 2006 in my archives and I don't see it in there.

in erwins announcement of the changes, he threw out the creeds, and instead allows for anything, any belief to be called christian...

http://foru.ms/t5657050-a-new-cf-an-old-vision.html

f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

The difference I see? Instead of there being a huge banner above us saying we're a Christian site, now it is up to us to act like it.

Except beating non-suspecting visitors over the head with Christianity isn't the way to do that. We're essentially tricking people into joining, and that's unacceptable.

 

[Asinner]

The difference I see? Instead of there being a huge banner above us saying we're a Christian site, now it is up to us to act like it. There have been problems here at various times so why can't we overcome this together too? No one is saying we have to hide our faith and cover up our crosses. Instead we have to make sure we live our faith and live with our crosses.

 

[The Bellman]

The Creed is just as much to set a standard for the Christians here, AS IT IS TO LET NONCHRISTIANS KNOW WHAT THE WEBMASTER IS DEFINING A CHRISTIAN AS.

I've gone to many religious websites, and my first page I hit is the "statement of beliefs". The minute I read any claims that are opposite what the Bible clearly teaches, I'm OUTTA THERE. I don't need to learn from false teachers.
A Christian coming here to join needs to know what type of christian community is here. If they want a watered down version that allows anyone who calls themself one, then THIS IS THE RIGHT PLACE FOR THEM.

Why is this needed? I don't understand. A person seeking comes here and knows they are in a fairly liberal environment. What's the big deal about that? If they want a stricter environment, there are any number of places that offer that. If they want a more liberal environment, here it is.

I never said the Nicene Creed would END all infighting, guess why ----- Becuz the people in the Christian sections that joined already agreed to it and the fights still went on - BUT THEY REJECTED THE BIBLE'S INSPIRATION FROM GOD and wouldn't accept it as any truth when we quoted it to them.

I'm not sure what this refers to. However, I would note that people can reject your interpretation of the bible without rejecting the bible itself. For example, a person can hold that the bible is directly inspired by god (just as you do) and yet hold that it does not speak against homosexual relationships - they are not dismissing the bible, they are dismissing your interpretation of it.

And THAT is why I said that clause of agreement to accepting the Bible is Inspired by God needs to be there.

Again, that won't solve anything, because interpretations of the bible vary so widely.

That would draw a line for some - (and they know it and have been fighting against that).
The other Christian sites hold the proper standard of Christianity - and that's why a mass exodus happened here and integrity was lost.

The other Christian sites hold not "the proper" standard, but a standard you agree with. No integrity has been lost here; the focus has merely changed.

Just becuz "Christians" fight, doesn't mean all of them do, and in fact, the truth is, many do not fight at all - so does that undermine your theory that since many don't fight that Christianity is right?

I have never suggested that all Christians fight, and I have not even remotely suggested that because all/most/many/some Christians fight, Christianity is therefore wrong.

However, the fact is that the history of Christianity is one of continual argument and splitting over (among other things) interpretations of the bible. It's still happening today over such things as the ordination of women and homosexuality.

I see alot of nasty atheists, does that mean atheism or all atheists are evil? You tell me.

No, and I have never said or implied anything similar about Christians.

 

[joebudda]

But according to the Word of God... the only way to have eternal life is to believe that Jesus Christ is Lord. We must believe in His diety and the Trinity, which a few of faiths now listed in the CO forums don't believe in.

So... just because some believe that they are Christians, doesn't actually mean, that they are. But, that doesn't mean that we should be unkind or hurtful or disrespectful to anyone either... Christian or not. How can Christ's love and goodness shine from us if we are full of anger and hate and negative criticism. Yes, preach the Gospel of Christ, but do so with compassion and mercy and love with the Truth.

And you are allowed to believe this, so allow others the same respect.

 

[Asinner]

in erwins announcement of the changes, he threw out the creeds, and instead allows for anything, any belief to be called christian...

http://foru.ms/t5657050-a-new-cf-an-old-vision.html

f. No more restriction of faith icons - who are we to tell you who you are or what you believe in? In fact, no other restrictions - if you want to call yourself married, go ahead. It is between you and God, not you and CF.
g. Related to the above, if you believe you are a Christian, you are. No more reliance on our own definition of what we think is a Christian. In the end, who are we to judge.

Hi Stormy,

There are thousands of protestant denoms, there are the Catholics, Anglicans, Lutherans, Orientals, Orthodox, Mormons, JW's, ect., ect., all claiming to be Christian too. A claim really means nothing without proof. The proof is whether we are Christ to one another. The proof is our Love.

Love,
Christina