At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[ZooMom]

I don't like either option, and I'm not voting in any 'lesser of two evils' scenario.


I'm about done with CF.

 

[JGG]

It wasn't full description. Being true to Him is being true to WHO He is - The Son of God, Second Person of the Tinity. The one who became flesh, lived a perfect life, died for our sins and rose again, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father.

Being a Christian is not all about being nice and friendly and accepting everything....though one should be nice and friendly. It is about our walk with Him, and our fellowship with Him, and serving Him, being obedient to Him and being true to Him. He is to be worshipped in spirit and in truth.

I just don't buy the argument that to be a Christian site, everything has to be accepted.

Okay, how is being true to Him, being true to who He is? Jesus isn't a walk, or service, or obedience. And recognizing that Jesus was a divine human, who had a perfect life, died and lived, doesn't actually say anything.

For instance, why does Jesus hate atheists, gays, and feminists so much?

 

[Inan3]

Originally Posted by Beastt
"It's amazing to me that Christians are continually complaining that people hate them or have oppressed them in the past or don't treat them well. Yet when nonChristians ask to be treated as equals, look what happens!

Apparently the majority of Christians can't stand the idea of treating nonChristians as equals. Though of lesser consequence (at present), it's reminiscent of how slaves must have felt in America before the Emancipation Proclamation. Some people wanted slaves to be seen as and treated as people, and others, couldn't stand the idea. They screamed that if blacks were treated just like whites, there would be murders, crimes and persecution of whites. They cautioned everyone that the blacks would "take over".

Well here we are again, almost 150-years later and we see that at least one segment of the population hasn't learned a thing. Christians are now shouting that if nonChristians receive the same treatment Christians receive, their entire way of life, (so far as the web site goes), will crumble away beneath them. And if that's the case, then it's a system which should crumble away.

You have to start learning to treat people like people. You don't treat them like Jews, or pagans, or Muslims or Atheists. Treat us like people. That's what we are. We are no less people than you are, despite our difference of beliefs.

For all of those who wonder why Christians aren't treated well, it's not because of some biblical prophecy, it's not because we don't like the color of your hair, your car, the size of your church or the symbol you so often wear around your neck. It's not even because you don't want to treat others the way you would be treated yourself. It's because so many of you honestly believe that you have been bestowed with a greater sense of entitlement. You actually believe that you're better than all nonChristians. You can't stand the idea of not being treated better than all of those around you.

That's why you're treated with such hatred by some -- because that's what you emanate -- hatred. You simply can't love your neighbor while you're treating them as less than yourself. Loving your neighbor is not the same as loving your pet where you allow it in your house but feed it cheaper food, wouldn't allow it on the furniture with you or even leave it tied up in the yard while you rest comfortably in your home. We're not animals and we're not lesser beings than you. If you keep treating us as lesser beings, you'll not only prove that you deserve the poor treatment you've received, you'll prove that none of what Christianity is supposed to mean really matters to you at all. It's all about elitism and entitlement.

Is it any wonder so many of us come to this site and walk away in sickened disgust?

So keep it up. Keep treating everyone else like we're your inferiors and keep complaining that others don't treat you well. Perhaps when you've pushed so far that the only place left for you are isolated communities where you can live in the mistaken belief that you're superior to everyone else, some of you will begin to wonder."


What makes me wonder is, if that's how you think, then why do you want to be with people who treat you the way you say? I don't go to places that I perceive people don't want me. Firstly, because I don't want to infringe on their beliefs, opinions, manner of doing things, etc. and secondly, I don't go there because I don't want to be a part of it.


Secondly, we may be equal in the natural but we do not agree. There is a difference between being a religious person and being a born again Chrisitian. A born again person is born from above. A new creature. Alive unto God. We no longer think or perceive things like we used to and we know unbelievers can't understand that. Not because we are better than they but because we have been there. We once were unbelievers and didn't understand either, we were incapable, as those who have not yet accepted Christ as their Lord and Saviour are.


This should not be a problem, though, because you or anyone can do that right now, and become a born again child of God. Just ask Him to forgive you of your sins and give Him the Lordship of your life. Just that simple and then you will understand and fit right in.

Chrisitans are not perfect we are forgiven and changed. We grow and mature in spirit as a person in the natural does. We are all at different levels of growth but we all have one thing we agree on. Jesus is Lord and we desire to please Him and serve Him and trust Him to bring us to maturity in Him.

Come join us in the spirit before you join us in the forum.

 

[Lisa0315]

Okay, how is being true to Him, being true to who He is?

Or for that matter, why does Jesus hate atheists, gays, and feminists so much?

Hi JGG,
This is really off-topic, but I will be glad to start a thread in GA for this question. Will you join me there if I post a link?

Lisa

 

[FreeinChrist]

I thought being a Christian was about following his two Great commandemnts. Most of the stuff you speak about...he didn't say much of anything about that.

I guess love and compassion are right out then.....

Yes, it is.

And loving God with all your heart soul and mind I would include presenting as he truly is and accepting some mumbojumbo made up later.

And loving your neighbor does not mean accepting his sin.

And I think this site is about to go down...it is VERY slow

 

[JGG]

Hi JGG,
This is really off-topic, but I will be glad to start a thread in GA for this question. Will you join me there if I post a link?

Lisa

Abso-smurfly!

 

[Lisa0315]

Abso-smurfly!

LOL! Okay! Be back in a minute with the link.

Lisa

 

[Lisa0315]

Abso-smurfly!

http://www.christianforums.com/t579...-gays-and-feminists-so-much.html#post37171774

Here you go!

Lisa

 

[FreeinChrist]

Okay, how is being true to Him, being true to who He is? Jesus isn't a walk, or service, or obedience. And recognizing that Jesus was a divine human, who had a perfect life, died and lived, doesn't actually say anything.

Yes, it does.

For instance, why does Jesus hate atheists, gays, and feminists so much?

who said he hates them?

You are trying to put words in my mouth, I think.
Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions....

 

[ScottBot]

No vote.

I would have preferred if the wording of the two options didn't slant so heavily in favor of option one. My preference is more of a hybrid of these to anyway, so I cannot in good conscience vote for either.

 

[ScottBot]

Are we there yet?

I am still talking and not standing in front of the Lord yet, so, apparently this debate will continue.

 

[ScottBot]

I thought being a Christian was about following his two Great commandemnts. Most of the stuff you speak about...he didn't say much of anything about that.

I guess love and compassion are right out then.....

Love doesn't mean capitulation or compromise. Sometimes it means saying what needs to be said regardless of how harsh it may sound, as long as it is done with the right intention.

 

[Ringo84]

It was a response in defense of cruelty which came back on a Google search. And since the moment I arrived here, I've been kicked around and treated like an inferior by the majority. I'm just the type of person who digs in more deeply when confronted with that kind of treatment.


The one thing I've not found here is God. When I first came here, I was fairly certain there were no gods. After a very short time here, spent with people who claimed they knew God and had the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, I became completely certain. The behavior of Christians here is why a CF poll showed only two conversions to 13 deconversions. You talking the talk but actions speak louder than words and your refusal to walk the walk is what people notice.


I'm not being manipulative and my words aren't fancy. It's just straight reporting. And the evidence of that lies within the posts of those who attempt to attack my statements. They can't offer any kind of refutation of what I've said, because even they know I'm correct. Any 10-year old child knows that you're supposed to treat others as equals. They also know that if you won't or can't bring yourself to do so, you're not really capable of loving others.


What pretty words did I offer? I just said it like it is. And I've not promised anyone anything. All I've done is hold up a mirror and you don't like what you're seeing. But you can't allow yourself to recognize that you're wrong, so you try to cast me in the role of Satan so that you can walk away with your prejudice in tact and try to convince yourself that it's not wrong to hold yourself as superior to everyone else.


It's already true and you keep demonstrating that with every vote for Option 2.

My friend, you may be kicked around by some empty-headed Christians who treat you like a second-class forum member, but I will always accept you for who you are.

I will take it upon myself to speak for the entire CF community: you are as welcome here as the flowers in May. Don't let a few Christians who have a problem with people making them think keep you from fellowshipping with us.
Ringo

 

[Ringo84]

I choose option 2 as well.

But I think allowing 'questions' from non Trinitarians and athiests should be welcomed in Christian areas.

Not debating that God exists or such...but for them to find answers to questions.

Why shouldn't they debate whether God exists? Is that not a valid question? What are you afraid of?
Ringo

 

[JGG]

who said he hates them?

You are trying to put words in my mouth, I think.
Maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions....

To be fair, I wasn't putting words in your mouth. In fact, I bypassed you completely, and put words directly into Jesus' mouth.

And I was being tongue in cheek. Sorry, I'm usually funny.

 

[Davidnic]

I apologize for not understanding your position, I do not however regret nor will recant my comments concerning P_G. IMO he was a major portion of the problems on the old CF and it seems a lot of people just want to go back to the near dictatorship CF was before. I call it like I see it. And now all P_G can do is make backhanded comments. If that's not bile I dont know what is.

My point is that all these people are not even giving this "New Viision of CF" a chance to work. I mean they just won't even give it the time of day and that's unfair. The changes may seem quick to some but for me and others even reading some of the vitrol on this site made me sick and had to be stopped. Don't even talk about me responding with bile with some of the things I have read on this site in the past. Perhaps Erwin thought the only way to fix the problems was to try to just make a drastic and sudden overhaul and wipe out everything that was causing derision and the divison that was clearlly evident on the old CF.

My question to Steve, or anyone else who has so little faith in the new CF, what would it hurt you to give it a chance? More than 3 weeks that is...

As to the Great Commision--that is a personal thing between each person and God. I do not think everyone needs this spelled out for them on a website. I know some are tired of hearing this, but this is website forum--not a church.

I disagree with your view of P_G. I disagree greatly. But that is not the point of this thread. So we will have to simply disagree.

As far as the new way. The site lacks stability. Many support the new way because it is to their liking. Rather, their perception of the new way is to thier liking.

But the basic fact is that the site is not stable in terms of vision. The fact that we are voting on this and that the rules change so often shows that to be true.

The argument can be made that the exec set up was not given a chance to fully work. How long should an idea be given? How long is fair? What were the benchmarks set up to measure if it was working. There were none.

But what is giving the new way a chance? The wiki's are chaos. And debating over conflicting opinions like this...is part of the new vision. In the new way the members make the rules to a great extent.

But the process does not represent what people want. Only what the most vocal want. Or those who can spend the most time online.

There is not really much to give a chance to except a concept that what is right is what the majority decides is right. That is not a Christian concept. So the debate about should the site be Christian Forums.

 

[Fear]

Does anyone know what option 2 means yet?

 

[Ringo84]

I've gone over the previous posts in this thread, and apparently the problem is that people think that since this is a Christian Forums that only Christians should post here. That assertion is ridiculous.

To use the "church metaphor" (which I don't agree with; this is an online forum and not a church. There's a difference), Jesus never turned people away from church because they were non-believers. Neither did He choose not to associate with non-believers; Jesus associated with everyone.

It's almost like some Christians here are afraid to fellowship with non-believers, as though they fear that they will be asked to think about their beliefs and defend them. Non-believers have valid questions to ask, and we should not simply herd them in separate subforums simply because we're afraid to have our beliefs questioned.
Ringo

 

[Davidnic]

I've gone over the previous posts in this thread, and apparently the problem is that people think that since this is a Christian Forums that only Christians should post here. That assertion is ridiculous.

To use the "church metaphor" (which I don't agree with; this is an online forum and not a church. There's a difference), Jesus never turned people away from church because they were non-believers. Neither did He choose not to associate with non-believers; Jesus associated with everyone.

It's almost like some Christians here are afraid to fellowship with non-believers, as though they fear that they will be asked to think about their beliefs and defend them. Non-believers have valid questions to ask, and we should not simply herd them in separate subforums simply because we're afraid to have our beliefs questioned.
Ringo

I don't think that non-Christians should not post here. But I think that outreach to non-Christians should be at the heart of things and not be put behind creating an online community.

I can not agree that:

a secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians

Because to make it secondary open the door to many things I can not support. It puts us and our comfort above that goal.

I don't like the wording of option #2.

There are more than two ways of doing this. But I hope this poll is to get a pulse and not to make lasting policy decisions. But for the site owner to see what people want. I don't agree policy should be made on the strength of polls alone.

 

[ZooMom]

I don't think that non-Christians should not post here. But I think that outreach to non-Christians should be at the heart of things and not be put behind creating an online community.

I can not agree that:

a secondary vision being to allow Christians to outreach to non-Christians

Because to make it secondary open the door to many things I can not support. It puts us and our comfort above that goal.

I don't like the wording of option #2.

There are more than two ways of doing this. But I hope this poll is to get a pulse and not to make lasting policy decisions. But for the site owner to see what people want. I don't agree policy should be made on the strength of polls alone.

I agree 100%. Thank you, David.