At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[CaDan]

What? I don't understand your strange characters appearing on my screen seeking to communicate a thought to me. Could you be more clear? Do you have to be this transparent all the time CaDan?

What I am pointing out is that your claim that language is unchangeable and that meaning is inherent to the message is bogus. There is a complex relationship between the sender, the message, and the receiver.

Unless, of course, one is of the Humpty-Dumpty school of linguistics.

 

[intricatic]

What I am pointing out is that your claim that language is unchangeable and that meaning is inherent to the message is bogus. There is a complex relationship between the sender, the message, and the receiver.

Unless, of course, one is of the Humpty-Dumpty school of linguistics.

You mean anything except for this progressive approach to language that seeks to obscure any positive understanding of language as a formal communication that can be clearly understood? I don't subscribe to that, I dunno why anyone would want to.

 

[Angel4Truth]

If there were no tolerance, there would be no one here who could speak a word against christians or christianity to begin with on this board much less this place being totalitarian.

Tolerance does not = agreement and acceptance of a view. Allowance doesnt = a right

 

[SallyNow]

It's very sad to see so many people vote for option 2, something which is Christian in name but not in purpose.

Option 1 is what Christianity is all about - fellowship, outreach, compassion.

 

[JGG]

Well, he's saying intolerance is evil, yet he doesn't seem to address the fact that he's intolerant of intolerance, thus making him guilty of the very thing he's condemning.

Well, look at it this way: The Westboro Baptists, the KKK, the Christian Identity Movement...they're all pretty intolerant. It's their respective claims to fame. And yet somehow, we all tolerate them. We get angry, we wag our collective fingers. But we don't string `em up and put them in jail for their little intolerances.

On the otherhand, my views about the universe differ from my sister the Catholic, my in-laws who are Jewish, and my wife who was Buddhist/Jewish. I didn't have to tolerate them, and they didn't have to tolerate me, because it isn't even a matter of that.

I go to temple once a week. A massive building full of people who don't have to tolerate me, and I don't have to tolerate them. We all look past the insignificant differences and connect with the human being. What I manage to tolerate is the desire to define a person by their beliefs in God, or gods, or reality, or existence, or whatever. That's not tolerance, that's just respecting your brother.

That's why the whole concept of tolerance of atheists being defined as not murdering them seems so funny to me. It misses the point entirely. If I'm stopping at simply tolerating people because they don't agree with my religion, or they don't agree with mine, then I think I've missed the point of fellowship, and love for your neighbour completely.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Well I am stunned (not surprised but stunned)

I thought it might take a few more months before people started to cry for a name change of the Site. It was inevitable as soon as we start to offer some room for accommodation of those not part of our faith (in the broadest possible interpretation) then those outside of our faith want to have more access and more influence and finally want to take control and remove all vestiges of anything remotely Christian at all.

Erwin why don't you either make a stand for Christ or throw in the towel and let someone that is prepared to stand in your place do it instead.

Either we are the Christian website I thought I joined and support with all my strength or we are some limp inclusive forum of opinions debating and arguing ourselves into oblivion.

It is time to make a decision. The current one IS NOT WORKING!

Pete56

The call to change the name came out of the Conservative Christians forum. A poll was started there asking if the word "Christian" should be taken out of the site name. Erwin took note of it and started the poll we are all discussing here.

This was not something proposed by those "outside of" your faith.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

I apologize for not understanding your position, I do not however regret nor will recant my comments concerning P_G. IMO he was a major portion of the problems on the old CF and it seems a lot of people just want to go back to the near dictatorship CF was before. I call it like I see it. And now all P_G can do is make backhanded comments. If that's not bile I dont know what is.

My point is that all these people are not even giving this "New Viision of CF" a chance to work. I mean they just won't even give it the time of day and that's unfair. The changes may seem quick to some but for me and others even reading some of the vitrol on this site made me sick and had to be stopped. Don't even talk about me responding with bile with some of the things I have read on this site in the past. Perhaps Erwin thought the only way to fix the problems was to try to just make a drastic and sudden overhaul and wipe out everything that was causing derision and the divison that was clearlly evident on the old CF.

My question to Steve, or anyone else who has so little faith in the new CF, what would it hurt you to give it a chance? More than 3 weeks that is...

As to the Great Commision--that is a personal thing between each person and God. I do not think everyone needs this spelled out for them on a website. I know some are tired of hearing this, but this is website forum--not a church.

Well, if you can not make your point without calling others fascist and resporting with bile then I would seriously advise you to rethink how you argue for a point.

The issue is not that Non-Christians are treated with respect. I have no probelm with non-Christians posting in all the areas and such.

Don't assume you know my point when you phrase it, not with my words but with your own version of what you would like to think I mean.

Stop jumping to conclusions.

One of the poblems with the new way is that it has been:

"Everyone have an opinion as long as it is you love the changes. If not you are the problem."

If that was not the attitude and the changes were not attempted all at once so quickly...there would be much less venom on both sides.

If you want my full thoughts (from over two weeks ago):

I don't think this new way will work. But if you even want a chance...My thoughts:

* Close CF for a week or more. Let everyone calm down and focus.

* When it opens, only open the rule sections

* Vote. Coded to 500 post or more being the min to prevent socks

* This takes as long as it does

* We have 195,579 members, if 200 or more members have not participated in the rule making it does not count. (Make that more if you want, the more the better)

* After the dust clears if it is a site you can live with stay. If not go with no ill will.

And make the site support forums readable by general membership. If you want openess then make sure $$ does not make a bigger voice.
Also, as part of the intended role of Christians united in the vision of the forum and do we want Apologetics as part of the site (I say we do):


Is this a Christian Forum with non-Christian members? And is part of the purpose as far as that goes to bring Christ to them?


My simple question is honestly...is this a Christian site and what does the owner envision as far as the great Great Commission in relation to the interaction of Christian and non-Christian members.

I think both sides deserve a direct answer on that. And I think that answer will matter in how lasting the rules are and let everyone know if this is a place they want to be.

Basically does CF exist, in part to spread the message of Christ to non-Christians? And to What degree?

That really impacts the rules.

 

[Debi1967]

Well, look at it this way: The Westboro Baptists, the KKK, the Christian Identity Movement...they're all pretty intolerant. It's their respective claims to fame. And yet somehow, we all tolerate them. We get angry, we wag our collective fingers. But we don't string `em up and put them in jail for their little intolerances.

On the otherhand, my views about the universe differ from my sister the Catholic, my in-laws who are Jewish, and my wife who was Buddhist/Jewish. I didn't have to tolerate them, and they didn't have to tolerate me, because it isn't even a matter of that.

I go to temple once a week. A massive building full of people who don't have to tolerate me, and I don't have to tolerate them. We all look past the insignificant differences and connect with the human being. What I manage to tolerate is the desire to define a person by their beliefs in God, or gods, or reality, or existence, or whatever.

That's why the whole concept of tolerance of atheists being defined as not murdering them so funny. It misses the point entirely. If I'mtolerating people because they don't agree with my religion, or they don't agree with mine, then I think I've missed the point of fellowship completely.

 

[Letalis]

It's very sad to see so many people vote for option 2, something which is Christian in name but not in purpose.

Option 1 is what Christianity is all about - fellowship, outreach, compassion.

"It's so sad to see others voting for viewpoints that differ from my own."

 

[skipper]

I love this site and hope that what ever changes are made they are not drastic

 

[Glass*Soul]

Of course the current model isn't going to work when Admin and Mods circumvent members and their opinions in order to enact their own agendas. The pretense of neutrality and facilitation that is supposed to be held by Mods and Admin are gone, and it's allowed members who agree with them to run amock and completely unaccountable for their actions (they can just change the rules on a whim and the mods support them), and the rest of the membership to be beaten up and spat upon, with no recourse or protection.

The lack of leadership, and the lack of neutral assistance to that leadership, has allowed the whole site to fall apart as mods are accountable to nobody but the members who create the Wikis. Having moderators step up and imply the leadership isn't with God doesn't help anything either... Moderators can't control their behavior, you can't expect members to.

This forum needs:

A leader
Somebody to sweep out the mods who have agendas and are trying to make power plays
A mod staff that will beat down those who're bullying other members
Members that are accountable for their actions and at least try to keep up with a fixed TOS.

Would you be willing to link me to an example or two of someone changing a rule in order to allow themselves to run amock? From what I've seen, the various rules wikies are becoming more and more detailed and restrictive over time as people add in protections against behaviors that they see and don't like.

Maybe I'm missing something.

 

[CaDan]

You mean anything except for this progressive approach to language that seeks to obscure any positive understanding of language as a formal communication that can be clearly understood? I don't subscribe to that, I dunno why anyone would want to.

I'm not much of a prescriptivist. I appreciate poetry too much for that. But you have probably already gathered that.

 

[HisGrace58]

I agree and that is because we need to better define our mission statement here on CF which is what my friend TLF is talking about and be more realistic and in conjunction with Christ's prophecy and how it is effecting us now...

Christ prophesied the divisions among men and that they would not be done away with until he returned. This is what is being shown to us now and has been further amplified by these changes I think in reality.

I think in order for us to come together in anyway we need to realize that we have differences amongst us that will not dissipate until we agree that the common factor we have to all of us is we believe in God and Jesus as our Lord and Saviour and promote Him first on this website.

 

[FreeinChrist]

It's very sad to see so many people vote for option 2, something which is Christian in name but not in purpose.

Option 1 is what Christianity is all about - fellowship, outreach, compassion.

Actually it is all about Christ - service, obedience to Him, spreading the gospel and being true to Him.

I am concerned that some misrepresent who He is.

 

[JGG]

Actually it is all about Christ - service, obedience to Him, spreading the gospel and being true to Him.

I am concerned that some misrepresent who He is.

Again, I don't want to be snooty, but you just defined Christ by things you do for Him, not who He is, or what He means, or what He wants, or what He represents.

 

[Debi1967]

"It's so sad to see others voting for viewpoints that differ from my own."

 

[Debi1967]

Again, I don't want to be snooty, but you just defined Christ by things you do for Him, not who He is, or what He means, or what He wants, or what He represents.

But how we outwardly act is how we define Christ because Christ is supposed to be an extension of who we are

 

[Angel4Truth]

Again, I don't want to be snooty, but you just defined Christ by things you do for Him, not who He is, or what He means, or what He wants, or what He represents.

She defined her submission in comparison to those who are not submitted to Christ. God wants our submission to Him. When we are in submission to Him we can then lead others to Him but not before.
Romans 10:3. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[FreeinChrist]

Again, I don't want to be snooty, but you just defined Christ by things you do for Him, not who He is, or what He means, or what He wants, or what He represents.

It wasn't full description. Being true to Him is being true to WHO He is - The Son of God, Second Person of the Tinity. The one who became flesh, lived a perfect life, died for our sins and rose again, and is seated at the right hand of God the Father.

Being a Christian is not all about being nice and friendly and accepting everything....though one should be nice and friendly. It is about our walk with Him, and our fellowship with Him, and serving Him, being obedient to Him and being true to Him. He is to be worshipped in spirit and in truth.

I just don't buy the argument that to be a Christian site, everything has to be accepted.

 

[Mrs.Sidhe]

I thought being a Christian was about following his two Great commandemnts. Most of the stuff you speak about...he didn't say much of anything about that.

I guess love and compassion are right out then.....