The god who (once again) wasn't there: Virginia Tech

[m9lc]

or perhaps it is because God wants you to choose him. If you dont make a choice why would he take it as you loving him, you havent shown you love him, so you might as well have openly sided with satan anyway

But I haven't shown I love Satan either. You've provided no explanation as to why it doesn't go both ways.

Christianity doesnt have a scare tactic... i wasnt scared when i became a Christian... you obviously aren't scared else you wouldnt be arguing against it

Really? Christianity doesn't have a scare tactic?

Do you honestly think Christianity would be a mainstream religion today if the Bible said that God will send all people to Heaven regardless of what they do in their life on Earth?

And just because this scare tactic has stopped working on me doesn't mean it's not a scare tactic. This scare tactic held me for years before I recognized it as just that.

being 'good' does matter, otherwise as Christians we would just be doing whatever we liked... instead we try to do 'good' because of our love for God.

God cares wether we do 'good' or not, he also cares if we love him or not, and that is what is most important, because 'good' would be to show other people the love of God thru our lives... and how can u show Gods love if you dont love him

Also i think maybe God has the right to say that loving him is the 'prerequisite' to enter heaven, he created us and the earth we live in... look around you and check out just how awesome that is... and before you comment on all the bad stuff in the world a) are you also taking into account the good stuff?and b) all the bad stuff is due to our sin, the world was perfect before we stuffed it up, God gave us free will which is the perfect gift, the gift to choose. free will was my second point anyway, and my third point: he loves us so much that he sent his only son to die a criminals death on a cross for sins that were not his, but ours, so that 'none may perish but have eternal life' and guess what?!? all we have to do is love him! 'we love because he first loved us' we dont have to live perfectly, we are allowed to stuff up and time and time again not only will Jesus' own blood wash us clean but he will be the one to help us back on our feet again

God created free will and created people's minds in such a way that he knew (since he's omniscient) they would sin. And, he even put a tree in the Garden of Eden that served the sole purpose of causing Adam and Eve to sin. If God really didn't want sin, he would have created us with minds less inclined to disobey.

Saying God didn't create sin, is like saying I didn't make toast this morning because it was the toaster that did the toasting. God didn't do it himself, perhaps, but he definitely put all the ingredients in place.

(I've yet to see a Christian give a good response to this)

after all this do you really think that it is so wrong for God to ask that we love him to enter his house??

That doesn't explain to me why just because you don't deserve/want to go to Heaven, it means that you have to go to Hell.

 

[m9lc]

Hardly, I just don't want to get into this over used discussion of "burden of proof."

Frankly, I don't see why there's a discussion about it.

"I believe invisible, undetectable magical pink unicorns exist. Prove they don't exist; unless you do, I can say they do exist."

"I believe God exists. Prove he exists; unless you do, I can say he exists."

Explain to me how these two are different.

 

[loudatheist101]

Christianity doesnt have a scare tactic... i wasnt scared when i became a Christian... you obviously aren't scared else you wouldnt be arguing against it

Yet, nearly everyone non atheist I know is not an atheist because of the idea of Hell.

 

[livingforGod135]

But I haven't shown I love Satan either. You've provided no explanation as to why it doesn't go both ways.



Really? Christianity doesn't have a scare tactic?

Do you honestly think Christianity would be a mainstream religion today if the Bible said that God will send all people to Heaven regardless of what they do in their life on Earth?

And just because this scare tactic has stopped working on me doesn't mean it's not a scare tactic. This scare tactic held me for years before I recognized it as just that.



God created free will and created people's minds in such a way that he knew (since he's omniscient) they would sin. And, he even put a tree in the Garden of Eden that served the sole purpose of causing Adam and Eve to sin. If God really didn't want sin, he would have created us with minds less inclined to disobey.

Saying God didn't create sin, is like saying I didn't make toast this morning because it was the toaster that did the toasting. God didn't do it himself, perhaps, but he definitely put all the ingredients in place.

(I've yet to see a Christian give a good response to this)



That doesn't explain to me why just because you don't deserve/want to go to Heaven, it means that you have to go to Hell.

you dont need to show that you love satan, just that you dont love God and that is what you are doing, by not loving God you might as well be loving satan because it has the same result, it doesnt work both ways because God wants you to love him to enter his house, whereas satan doesnt give a dam wether you love him or not, just that you dont love God. in this case not making a decision is the same as making a decision to side with the devil (because it has the same result)


i should have explained better what i meant to say before is that I dont believe that Christianity has a scare tactic... why would our loving Father in heaven want us to love him just because we are scared of him, dont u think he would prefer for you (or me) to love him because of all the wonderful things he has done for us?

but hey maybe some people are simply scared... i honestly think Christianity is a mainstream 'religion' because we have a loving God who provides for us


yes God knew that we would sin, this doesnt mean he created sin... in fact you will find that sin was created by the enemy, im sure you know the story about the serpent and eve... do you also know the story about lucifer, how he was originally an angel...
free will is a gift... God knows we will sin, when we will sin, how we will sin, he also knows when and how we will die, what will make us happy, what will happen in our lives, wether we will come to know him... he knows everything but he doesnt do anything to change the things which hurt both him and us because he gave us that gift... which enables us to choose to love him
'If God really didn't want sin, he would have created us with minds less inclined to disobey'
it seems to me what you are saying here is that
a) u believe God wanted sin and
b) 'if God didnt really want us to sin' he would have created us perfect
i dont know if u see a problem with this, but i do... for one if we were created perfect it brings up the question of free will and also a question about us then being pretty much on level with God if we had free will and were also perfect... well... isnt that God?


That doesn't explain to me why just because you don't deserve/want to go to Heaven, it means that you have to go to Hell
well my mistake i didnt realise u were asking that question too... but now i am interested, why (presuming u were talking about yourself) do u not want to go to heaven? (i can kinda c why u dont wanna go to Hell)
anyway this once again comes back to the discussion about not 'siding' with God= 'siding' with satan, which i have explained again at the top (and i hope it makes sense this time ) i guess the easiest way to think of it is whoever you 'side' with that is whose 'house' u get to spend eternity in

Laura

 

[livingforGod135]

Yet, nearly everyone non atheist I know is not an atheist because of the idea of Hell.

im not

once again: what i should have said is I believe that Christianity doesnt have a scare tactic... actually now i think of it i believe Christianity doesnt have any 'tactic' its God loving us, and wanting us to love him as well

Laura

 

[loudatheist101]

im not

once again: what i should have said is I believe that Christianity doesnt have a scare tactic... actually now i think of it i believe Christianity doesnt have any 'tactic' its God loving us, and wanting us to love him as well

Laura

You do not understand this at all.


You think we love some made up demon because we do not love your god? Well, you don't love Zues, so you must love Hadies then correct? No. I really hate it when Christians think atheists who do not believe in their god or their satan guy, they still believe we worship satan...when we dont so...

 

[livingforGod135]

You do not understand this at all.


You think we love some made up demon because we do not love your god? Well, you don't love Zues, so you must love Hadies then correct? No. I really hate it when Christians think atheists who do not believe in their god or their satan guy, they still believe we worship satan...when we dont so...

i am real sorry if it comes across to you this way, i can see how you think that i am saying that.
i am not telling you that you worship satan, i am just saying that, from my perspective as a Christian, because you dont love God then u might as well be siding with the devil. i use the word siding because i find it the easiest way to explain, not because you actually are

also im kinda confused, how did u get that i think that from the quote u posted?

and what do i not understand? explain to me please

Laura

 

[loudatheist101]

i am real sorry if it comes across to you this way, i can see how you think that i am saying that.
i am not telling you that you worship satan, i am just saying that, from my perspective as a Christian, because you dont love God then u might as well be siding with the devil. i use the word siding because i find it the easiest way to explain, not because you actually are

also im kinda confused, how did u get that i think that from the quote u posted?

and what do i not understand? explain to me please

Laura

If a satanist preached to us about satan, we atheists would use are same tactics against the satanists as we do with you. The satanist may say "Well you might as well be on God's side then"

 

[Morcova]

Hardly, I just don't want to get into this over used discussion of "burden of proof."

No you refuse to answer a question. And the burder of proof is clear.

 

[Morcova]

im not

once again: what i should have said is I believe that Christianity doesnt have a scare tactic... actually now i think of it i believe Christianity doesnt have any 'tactic' its God loving us, and wanting us to love him as well

Laura

Of course Christianity has a scare tactic. I can't think of any bigger scare tactic than hell... "believe like I do or when you die you will suffer for all eternity" sounds like a scare tactic to me.

 

[loudatheist101]

Of course Christianity has a scare tactic. I can't think of any bigger scare tactic than hell... "believe like I do or when you die you will suffer for all eternity" sounds like a scare tactic to me.

Hell was made up to scare doubters into the religion. And believe me, it sure works on too many.

 

[livingforGod135]

If a satanist preached to us about satan, we atheists would use are same tactics against the satanists as we do with you. The satanist may say "Well you might as well be on God's side then"

well i dont really 'get' satanists anyway but i agree with u, a satanist may well say that, but in the end it all comes down to faith, and that is a choice, u choose to not believe in God, okay fine, i choose to believe in him and love him (etc)

Of course Christianity has a scare tactic. I can't think of any bigger scare tactic than hell... "believe like I do or when you die you will suffer for all eternity" sounds like a scare tactic to me.


put that way it sure does sound like a scare tactic doesnt it... but (of course there is a but ) i can honestly say that i have never tried to get someone to believe what i do by saying this or anything like this (of course i cant speak for everyone)
like i said before... i dont believe it is a scare tactic, i happen to believe it is the truth

Hell was made up to scare doubters into the religion. And believe me, it sure works on too many.


i beg to differ
two things (insert 'i believe' before everything )
1) hell wasnt made up... it was made though
2) i believe in God but i still have moments of doubt

on a side note i dont believe you can be scared into believing, maybe you can be scared into pretending to believe...

 

[loudatheist101]

If a satanist preached to us about satan, we atheists would use are same tactics against the satanists as we do with you. The satanist may say "Well you might as well be on God's side then"

well i dont really 'get' satanists anyway but i agree with u, a satanist may well say that, but in the end it all comes down to faith, and that is a choice, u choose to not believe in God, okay fine, i choose to believe in him and love him (etc)

Of course Christianity has a scare tactic. I can't think of any bigger scare tactic than hell... "believe like I do or when you die you will suffer for all eternity" sounds like a scare tactic to me.


put that way it sure does sound like a scare tactic doesnt it... but (of course there is a but ) i can honestly say that i have never tried to get someone to believe what i do by saying this or anything like this (of course i cant speak for everyone)
like i said before... i dont believe it is a scare tactic, i happen to believe it is the truth

Hell was made up to scare doubters into the religion. And believe me, it sure works on too many.


i beg to differ
two things (insert 'i believe' before everything )
1) hell wasnt made up... it was made though
2) i believe in God but i still have moments of doubt

on a side note i dont believe you can be scared into believing, maybe you can be scared into pretending to believe...

Maybe so, yet I know too many people that are atheists, yet won't even admit it to themselves for the fear of "hell". Quite rediculous and embarrissing to be tricked into believeing because of "hell". The scare tactic really works that is certain.

 

[Morcova]

u choose to not believe in God, okay fine, i choose to believe in him and love him (etc)

People don't choose the things that they believe, don't believe me? Believe that the moon is made of cheese for a day.

 

[livingforGod135]

'Maybe so, yet I know too many people that are atheists, yet won't even admit it to themselves for the fear of "hell". Quite rediculous and embarrissing to be tricked into believeing because of "hell". The scare tactic really works that is certain'

once again: i believe that the scare tactic doesnt exist... ok im gonna stop sayin it but dont forget
u know if they are scared of hell then they gotta believe in it or at least be open to the possibility it exists... after all u cant be scared of things u are 100% certain dont exist (yes i was scared of mansters under the bed, yes i believed they exisisted) also i guess that also means on the other hand they dont 100% believe in ummm atheistism (? not takin the mick)

btw just because people get scared about the idea of hell and thus try to believe in God (etc) doesnt mean it is a scare tactic... tactic implies it was done purposely

'People don't choose the things that they believe, don't believe me? Believe that the moon is made of cheese for a day'

no i dont believe u, i choose not to believe u, i also choose to believe that the moon is made of moon rock. people sure can choose what they believe, its called free will (remember) also ur example will only prove that people cant change what they believe when they know what they are trying to believe is complete and utter nonsense

 

[loudatheist101]

'Maybe so, yet I know too many people that are atheists, yet won't even admit it to themselves for the fear of "hell". Quite rediculous and embarrissing to be tricked into believeing because of "hell". The scare tactic really works that is certain'

once again: i believe that the scare tactic doesnt exist... ok im gonna stop sayin it but dont forget
u know if they are scared of hell then they gotta believe in it or at least be open to the possibility it exists... after all u cant be scared of things u are 100% certain dont exist (yes i was scared of mansters under the bed, yes i believed they exisisted) also i guess that also means on the other hand they dont 100% believe in ummm atheistism (? not takin the mick)

btw just because people get scared about the idea of hell and thus try to believe in God (etc) doesnt mean it is a scare tactic... tactic implies it was done purposely

'People don't choose the things that they believe, don't believe me? Believe that the moon is made of cheese for a day'

no i dont believe u, i choose not to believe u, i also choose to believe that the moon is made of moon rock. people sure can choose what they believe, its called free will (remember) also ur example will only prove that people cant change what they believe when they know what they are trying to believe is complete and utter nonsense

It is a scare tactic, it scares many people into believing, perhaps the majority of "Christians". If you are brainwashed to "Believe everything the Bible says or you will burn forever", then many people will be scared into believing.

 

[Theogonia]

Same issue, more people dying.

Whether a fetus is in fact a person is the issue, and there is no proof one way or another whether it is or isn't.

That reminds me of "Love is blind, God is blind, Ray Charles is blind, therefore Ray Charles is God."

Are you saying I'm wrong? I don't understand.

All that matters is what God says it is.

Your interpetation of what God says is probably wrong.

Has it ever truly mattered what people think?

If what people thought didn't matter then we'd all still be undeveloped humanoids living in caves.

 

[Theogonia]

So what's saving everyone from a bomb in the long run?

Oh brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

You have just won the Upperclass Twit Of The Year 1st prize.

 

[Theogonia]

Its one of your rights, the right to go to Hell.

It's a right of ours to be tortured for eternity just because we didn't follow Christianity?

I see no reason to follow modern Christianity based on the typical Christian role models of today.

 

[Theogonia]

Its one of your rights, the right to go to Hell.

God chooses to save whom he will. We have no choice in the matter.

To say that we have the choice to go to hell if we want is to say that God does not save whom he wants.